The Great Betrayal!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gamesmart

That's probably the most likely reason, as Iceheart has already set the precedent by using herself as a host for Saint Shiva. Both Minfilia and Iceheart have the Echo, which is likely the key in doing so.

---

If that is the case then that would mean Minfilia maybe the Final boss of 3.0 or Pre-Final boss of 3.0 if they successfully turn Minfilia into Zodiark's Host body.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

If that is the case then that would mean Minfilia maybe the Final boss of 3.0 or Pre-Final boss of 3.0 if they successfully turn Minfilia into Zodiark's Host body.

---

That'd be one heck of a plot twist, assuming it succeeds. May end up being a regular solo instanced fight if everything plays out like that.
But as mentioned elsewhere, the Main Scenario teaser for Before the Fall Part 2 shows her back in the material world, so if it does succeed it'll be very, very short-lived.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gamesmart

That'd be one heck of a plot twist, assuming it succeeds. May end up being a regular solo instanced fight if everything plays out like that.
But as mentioned elsewhere, the Main Scenario teaser for Before the Fall Part 2 shows her back in the material world, so if it does succeed it'll be very, very short-lived.

---

Well anything can happen at this point with Minfilia's capture. If the use of Minfilia as a Host for Zodiark works then it is possible that Zodiark is hiding his presence in Minfilia or pretending to be Minfilia similar to how Lahabrea pretended to be or hid his control over Thancred's body.

If their plans failed in 2.5 Part 1 or there is another reason for Minfilia's capture and we save her then meh she still herself and nothing more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gamesmart

Bahamut simply just overpowered the seal before it could be completed. He was held in captivity for a very, very long time (among other factors, which are Final Coil spoilers so I'm leaving them out here), so when Dalamud burst open we had a very, very pissed off elder primal on our hands - far more than the Twelve could contain. I don't think any of the (soon-to-be) Scions were present for the actual Battle of Carteneau, as they were scattered around Eorzea in prayer at the marks of the Twelve that Louisoix placed so he could channel the populace's prayers to summon them in the first place.

Also, it was stated at the introduction to the original HM primal trio that Thancred was especially vulnerable to tempering thanks to him being possessed by Lahabrea, so at the very least he's basically confirmed not to have the Echo.

---

From what i understand, it was all speculation on their part. Thancred may have been vulnerable at that time, but it didn't stop him from getting involved with Leviathan.
And yes, as I said, based on my speculation if there were twelve scions praying instead of the six they had going into it, it's possible Bahamut may have not broken through the seal.
This might not be the last we see of the gigantic seal of the twelve.

So...did SE announce the winners for the screenshot contest a while back? Maybe the winners will be in 2.5 somewhere? *nudge nudge*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

We're never fighting Zodiark as he is a giant crystal, like Hydaelyn. He represents chaos/evil, Hyd represents light. Ascians causing chaos weakens Hyd and strengthens Zodiark.

Here's what he looks like if you're curious:

http://gamerescape.com/wp-content/up...rkhydaelyn.jpg

---

Well maybe he still CAN be summoned. I have a theory that Hydaleyn is a primal too, and we have essentially been "tempered" by her, or whatever it is called. That's why Ifrit couldn't do it to us. If you think about it, we have been gathering crystals, too... from the primals. Maybe to summon Hydaelyn? Or as the cutscenes sorta make it seem, the Ascians will get hold of them now, for their purposes. /tinfoil hat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Recaldy

So...did SE announce the winners for the screenshot contest a while back? Maybe the winners will be in 2.5 somewhere? *nudge nudge*

---

Nope.

Nothing yet until they feel like releasing that info.

Y'know, if they do actually use Minfilia as a 'host' for Zodiark, I'm gonna start having flashbacks to FFT, and start desperately hoping that Cid suddenly picks up a sword and wears a brown Jedi-esque robe and starts kicking copious amounts of rear end with various Sword Skills. Because, otherwise, we are so completely boned...

Either that or Zodiarc will be too weak to use Darkja (being freshly summoned and all), and so we might actually have a chance.

Also, I highly doubt this will be the end of the Ascian storyline, and Yoshi-P might actually start bringing in more of the FFXII Espers, possibly starting with Belias at his full power, rather than just as an Egi.

OKay, let us speculate. We saw in the video someone blasting Moenbryda to thr ground. We also saw the same figure as a normal player character fighting in the World of Darkness, so it looks likely that the Scions will indeed be betrayed and by us no less. Nabriales also makes his move and kindaps Minfilia. We saw Yugiri without her hood, so it is safe to assume that she will indeed be unmasked.
I don't see Ilberd being a red mage. In fact I don't really see anyone being a red mage since they are not confirmed to be in development.

As for the "real Enkidu" he is dead. He died just a bit before we get to see Gilgamesh in Type-0. I'm guessing all the Enkidus we saw in other games are just different creatures he calls Enkidu. This is why he is sometimes a dog, sometimes a winged monster and sometimes a person. It may be that this Enkidu is the real XIV Enkidu, but still he isn't anymore real than the green chicken.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

What if it's the other way around? What if they need her to be a host for Hydaelyn so they can actually contain/kill her permanently?

---

Now THAT is an interesting twist. And to be honest I don't think Final Fantasy's had that done before. Also...Minfillia's always been closer to Hydaelyn than anyone else. I would actually like to see that happen to be honest.

And what about the narration at the end? The first one by Urianger is okay, He is being his usually creepy self. But what was that at the end? It sounded like we were dying and MInfilia was begging for us to fight on. Or maybe she was preparing to die and was reassuring us that the Scions don't need her anymore. Or something.

If Minfilia dies, let Yda take over as leader.

Out with the earnest and bland quest director. In with the stoner punchwizard teenager.

So you want a ditzy Princess Peach soundalike as leader of the Scions?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

So you want a ditzy Princess Peach soundalike as leader of the Scions?

---

(y)

/10char

Not trying to be a pain but I find Alisaie is much hotter than Milf-filia...
Anyone may die... but please don't let it be my sweet Alisaie T_T

I will just point out we still don't know why Ishgard alone is at war with the Dragons, there was a shield surrounding Ishard and the Ascians have a thing for that City-state.

On the other hand, Iceheart claims she is answering Hydaelin's call and sides with the Dragons.

All the while, Hydaelin has remained silent. Get ready for some nice revelations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Toranja

I will just point out we still don't know why Ishgard alone is at war with the Dragons, there was a shield surrounding Ishard and the Ascians have a thing for that City-state.

On the other hand, Iceheart claims she is answering Hydaelin's call and sides with the Dragons.

All the while, Hydaelin has remained silent. Get ready for some nice revelations.

---

Well considering what Iceheart is doing may lead to some events and subsequently them letting the Au Ra into the city, she may very well be heeding Hydaelyn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Toranja

I will just point out we still don't know why Ishgard alone is at war with the Dragons, there was a shield surrounding Ishard and the Ascians have a thing for that City-state.

On the other hand, Iceheart claims she is answering Hydaelin's call and sides with the Dragons.

All the while, Hydaelin has remained silent. Get ready for some nice revelations.

---

So what Hydaelyn told her and her followers to kill all the un-related Ishgardian soldiers?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prototype909

So what Hydaelyn told her and her followers to kill all the un-related Ishgardian soldiers?

---

Probably not, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Echo had Iceheart see the past (and with how long Dragons like Midgardsomr can live that can be a long time ago) I wouldn't be surprised if Ishgard started the war and just play the victims as a part of internal policy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zeful

Probably not, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Echo had Iceheart see the past (and with how long Dragons like Midgardsomr can live that can be a long time ago) I wouldn't be surprised if Ishgard started the war and just play the victims as a part of internal policy.

---

Even if that's true it's doubtful that the rank and file soldiers would know anything about that, let alone be responsible for that. If they try to pull some Iceheart/Shiva apologist plotline I'm gonna frown so hard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alexia89

Could be a Mystic Knight... They're associated a lot more with imbuing weapons with magic than Red Mage.

---

Begs to differ. >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Wanting someone dead because you find them annoying is a bad reason. You can easily shove a character to the sidelines without having to kill everyone for the sake of drama.

---

Except then the fans of said characters ask why they aren't used.

Killing off characters is treading a fine line. It's really easy to alienate fans if you do it, and even if you're willing to take that risk, it has to be done with considerable finesse in order to uphold the quality of the writing and serve the overall narrative.

I'm gonna trot out the most obvious example ever (to a board about FF games): Aeris. This was a character death that was handled considerably well in narrative terms. Several things were established in advance of her demise: One, the hero was leaning on this character for emotional support, with other characters having been demonstrated as too recalcitrant (Tifa) or incapable for their own reasons (everyone else). Two, she was the only person who had an inkling of what precisely the real problem was that the heroes had ostensibly set out to resolve. Three, as a result of two, the villain perceived them as being the only true threat to their own goals. Her death kicked off the hero's breakdown that culminated in the revelation at the North Crater of just what precisely Cloud was and what he had been doing all along -- a story reveal that, if there can be said to be any real spoiler for Final Fantasy VII, was it. (But this isn't a spoiler to you because you've played FFVII, right guys? ......right?)

Anyway. That's food for thought on the kind of balancing act a writer should consider when killing off a character in a story of this genre. Different genres have different rules, of course. This is heroic fantasy/adventure. If you're writing horror or melodrama, the strategy is different, but there's still a strategy that competent writers stick to.

As I've said in another thread, Minfilia changes absolutely nothing in the story line and does nothing (Except whine about how louisoix isn't around to solve her problems) has no "real" purpose to the story except for being a useless plot device, I enjoy characters with development, which she has absolutely none at all.
In 1.0 she had more development, but it's as if M Night Shamylan took hold of the story and dumbed down the characters with even a smidgen of development and purpose to them.
She was actually a strong character that took initiative and even tested the player when they found out they had the echo.
Now she's just a bland, overused plot device (And boy do I hate the damsel in distress plot device as they tend to be worthless characters)
Minfilia does NOTHING to make me like her as a character at all, and that's what makes me dislike her, Yda and Papalymo have more life them, heck even Thancred!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Toranja

I will just point out we still don't know why Ishgard alone is at war with the Dragons, there was a shield surrounding Ishard and the Ascians have a thing for that City-state.

On the other hand, Iceheart claims she is answering Hydaelin's call and sides with the Dragons.

All the while, Hydaelin has remained silent. Get ready for some nice revelations.

---

"Look to those who walked before, to lead those who walk after"

Iceheart probably misconstrued those words to think:

"The people before me did X so I should do X as well!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KodiHivaer

As I've said in another thread, Minfilia changes absolutely nothing in the story line and does nothing <snip>

---

I honestly have to agree with this. Minfilia is bland. We meet Thancred, and he's immediately established as a charismatic gentleman rogue. We meet Y'shtola, and we know we're dealing with a rich-spirited scholar. We meet Yda and Papalymo, and we know we have the archetypical pair of heroic foils. Likewise, the Grand Company leaders play to very recognizable archetypes while bringing a bit of flavor on their own to make you remember them.

Nothing so much, for Minfilia. She's a clear callback to Princess Hilda from FF2, but they stopped with the inspiration then and there, not taking any risks. They should have.

The 2.0 storyline, actually placing Thancred as the person in "distress", was a smart bit of writing, playing as it does with the conventions of heroic fantasy.

You see this guy and you have the immediate rapport you get when you watch a movie starring his character type -- instant win-over. We're conditioned to love that character, and even if you don't, you probably understand the appeal still. So, when he's kidnapped/possessed by Lahabrea, we've got a tasty baquet of drama and irony. You like him, so you want to help him. And here he is, the one you'd expect to swoop in and save the damsel, being the one in need of saving (and by the damsel, at that, should your character happen to be female!)

Minfilia is unimpressive in comparison to this. I truthfully can't think of how to salvage her. I know if I saw, say, Y'shtola stolen away in that trailer, I'd be all like, "HELL NO, YOU DIDN'T JUST TAKE MY LORECAT PAL" and be all pumped to run to the rescue. Instead it's Minfilia, and it's like, "oh, that's a thing that happens I guess".

Minfilia is the figurehead/leader of the Scions. She's the brains of the group so naturally she isn't going to get her hands dirty. The city state leaders also do the same thing; stay behind in private to conjure up plans on what to do next, have the Grand Companies execute said plans, and instill hope in the people when times get rough. Whatever Square has planned for her, I'm sure they planned far ahead so they are not going to reveal everything at once. I also find it very odd this Minfilia hate is emerging now and not in any patch before it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Minfilia is the figurehead/leader of the Scions. She's the brains of the group so naturally she isn't going to get her hands dirty. The city state leaders also do the same thing; stay behind in private to conjure up plans on what to do next, have the Grand Companies execute said plans, and instill hope in the people when times get rough. Whatever Square has planned for her, I'm sure they planned far ahead so they are not going to reveal everything at once. I also find it very odd this Minfilia hate is emerging now and not in any patch before it.

---

There's plenty of Minfillia hate if you look for it on this forum alone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Minfilia is the figurehead/leader of the Scions. <snip> I also find it very odd this Minfilia hate is emerging now and not in any patch before it.

---

It isn't hate, really. She could be a good character, but they just kinda squandered the opportunity. So really, it's disappointment. Feels like there may have even been more planned for her based on various early sketches in the art book, showing additional costumes and whatnot. They've got a very "Arabian Nights" vibe.

While I doubt that the devs ever actually planned for this, I'm imagining Minfilia completely replacing Thancred for all his stuff in the story, but with his attitude intact -- her theatrical dress style (both the final version and the harem-esque earlier designs) would lend itself well to a variety of dashing swashbuckler. Also, it would be fairly entertaining seeing a lady in that role.

There's ample evidence of the GC leaders getting mixed up things. Raubahn and Merlwyb, even if they don't get much by way of actual fight scenes, have extremely obvious bloody histories. Kan-E might as well be named "Galadriel".

Minfilia's only action scene is the one time she tried -- tried! -- throwing a punch at that one Ascian.

For chrissakes, lady, you were armed the entire time you were in Garlean captivity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duelle

Begs to differ. >.>

---

That is a screenshot from the CGI sequence at the boot up of FFIII's remake. Does not depict gameplay- as red mage's have no such ability in that game :)
They CAN wield the Salamand Sword, which casts fire upon use.....

However

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GhibliTheSW

I find Alisaie is much hotter than Milf-filia...

---

She has nice legs, but for me she looks way too much like Alphinaud. I mean only their ribbon distinguishes them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Toranja

Iceheart claims she is answering Hydaelin's call.

All the while, Hydaelin has remained silent.

---

Either Iceheart is lying, or Hydaelyn is pissed at us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

She's the brains of the group so naturally she isn't going to get her hands dirty.

---

Ahem, Alphinaud isn't a combat specialist either but still he moves out of his room and pretty much organises everything for the scions. Like the moving to Mor Dhona. Urianger is basically her secretary and still helps out during the escape from Livia. Cid, the mechanic? Fights alongside you in CM, mission controll in the Praetorium, Goes into Crystal Tower with you. Hell, even Tataru takes time to brew tea for the others and get extra money by mining.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balipu

She has nice legs, but for me she looks way too much like Alphinaud. I mean only their ribbon distinguishes them.

---

She is literally identical to Alphinaud in every way except that.

And anatomically. Probably.

For chrissakes they look like they're 13.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mahri

She is literally identical to Alphinaud in every way except that.

And anatomically. Probably.

For chrissakes they look like they're 13.

---

D: Please don't arrest me chris hansen, they didn't say they were 13!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mahri

She is literally identical to Alphinaud in every way except that.

And anatomically. Probably.

For chrissakes they look like they're 13.

---

I think they are 16 years old.

Hmm going off of some of these and some other speculation. I'd say the fall is the fall of the holy see and the opening up of Ishgad and by proxy being able to access dravinia. Possibly even sorting out the reasons why the bloody war started in the first place and sorting out a truce with the dravinians thus leading us to dravinia in 3.0.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ruskie

Hmm going off of some of these and some other speculation. I'd say the fall is the fall of the holy see and the opening up of Ishgad and by proxy being able to access dravinia. Possibly even sorting out the reasons why the bloody war started in the first place and sorting out a truce with the dravinians thus leading us to dravinia in 3.0.

---

We already know why the war started, the Ishgardians were looking for a land and their leader had Halone appear in his dreams and told him to take over the place now known as Ishgard that was Niddhog's territory.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mholito

I think they are 16 years old.

---

chronologically yes. But Elezen age slower than other races...

I'm kinda curious. What do you guys think of this picture?

http://puu.sh/evfLV/6ffcf8e630.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdamFyi

I'm kinda curious. What do you guys think of this picture?

http://puu.sh/evfLV/6ffcf8e630.jpg

---

Ascians are some sexy mofos *no homo*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KodiHivaer

Ascians are some sexy mofos *no homo*

---

And a potential prison between them

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KodiHivaer

Ascians are some sexy mofos *no homo*

---

Ascians are bodyless mofos who posess people at random.
This in the picture might be the player character.

Anyway, back to the Minfilia dying topic. After watching the trailer many times and looking at the officially released pictures, I have concluded that we will have a death, but not Minfilia. It will be Urianger.