Done!

if ever there was an amazing example of a extreme case of deluded entitlement you op would be it.

There's a difference between feeling entitled and recognizing that the current relic quest is a boring and relentless grind which ultimately fails to deliver anything beyond a new weapon skin. Had they made the grind remotely interesting or varied, I doubt there would be half as much grumbling about the whole thing, even if it ultimately took twice as long to accomplish.

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Originally Posted by GalkaBikini

Have you guys noticed when there's an overly dramatic post, you look at the poster's portrait and it's almost always a Lalafell? What's up with that?

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No but I do notice how many people who say they don't care and goodbye posts but they care enough to come in and attack person that is leaving, they are leaving what do they care what anyone says.

I believe I once said something before but realized its actually dumb to comment on goodbye post anymore, read it get half way to where they say they quit and then choose another topic to read.

If I quit I wont say nothing, even if I have a problem with the game.

Devs will not fix the issues they have with game waste of time explaining the reason you leave.

People will destroy you in comments if you say anything.

Its not even worth it.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

mmo referees to mmorpg in most cases which is a genre.
Most ppl do not consider games like Diablo, Call of Duty, LoL, Path of Exile, Hearth stone, and World of Tanks mmos. Although developers are starting to call them that.

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It does not, sorry but RPG is the genre that descripes the game and MMO describes the network setting of the game, result is MMORPG! MMOFPS or MMOTCG is also a MMO but not a RPG. There are many other genres made with MMO networking, even sportgames are! It is not a question what people believe, it is a definition in dictionary and sorry to tell you that, to change a definition way to less people "believe". Please do not use "most people" without numbers to prove, thanks!

Edit: Ok, the problem is in early stage (~1990) mostly RPGs existed and to differ them from normal RPGs they used the networksetting as prefix. This changed a while now, we are no longer in 1990s and we have a lot more "genres" using MMO networking...

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

It does not, sorry but RPG is the genre that descripes the game and MMO describes the network setting of the game, result is MMORPG! MMOFPS or MMOTCG is also a MMO but not a RPG. There are many other genres made with MMO networking, even sportgames are! It is not a question what people believe, it is a definition in dictionary and sorry to tell you that, to change a definition way to less people "believe". Please do not use "most people" without numbers to prove, thanks!

Edit: Ok, the problem is in early stage (~1990) mostly RPGs existed and to differ them from normal RPGs they used the networksetting as prefix. This changed a while now, we are no longer in 1990s and we have a lot more "genres" using MMO networking...

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Most people call MMORPGs MMO, and I'm pretty sure you don't need to resort to precise number to affirm it. But the real fact is that nobody cares and it doesn't matter what word we use. Ugh.

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Originally Posted by VoltaAsura

I hated light farming personally. It was the worst part about the relic questline so far imo

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Many peoples say this and i dont understand why, light part was best part in whole chain as there was zero RNG and no artificial time limits. Bacially you could get it done in one go unlike every other step.

Cool blog OP.
But don't associate yourself with casuals. I know many casual player who raid, have their zodiac and have most if not all their crafting job geared.
You're not a casual, you just want everything without putting any time or effort into it. Try entitled next time

People like you are the reason casual is now a term used by some people to describe bad players

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Originally Posted by hallena

Cool blog OP.
But don't associate yourself with casuals. I know many casual player who raid, have their zodiac and have most if not all their crafting job geared.
You're not a casual, you just want everything without putting any time or effort into it. Try entitled next time

People like you are the reason casual is now a term used by some people to describe bad players

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Couldn't have said it better.

I really think OP is either a troll or a misinformed deluded entitled player.

Doubt op is a troll more like burned out from the grind , I've seen casuals and hardcore players take a break or quit so doesn't have be only casuals struggling with the grind . It's up to the players in the end to pick which path they wanna work on coil or relic of hell grind or just do non of them .

I got my nirvana done but god it was not worth it at all to rush just burned me out pretty quick , i wish se made the grind fun but In the end they would make it easy for others to catch up which feels like meh ....why bother rushing why bother with coil since se going to make super easy mode for others to catch up .

Op just wait for the nerf/updates on relic u would be able to catch up like the rest

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Originally Posted by Amiraa

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Square Enix really couldn't win here. If they made it easy/fun to get (see: 2.0 launch), people complain that relics have no value because "everyone has one" (see 2.0 threads). If they made it difficult to get (ie: require cutting edge content to acquire), people would complain that it's unfair because they'll never be able to get it (see: people complaining about coil armor every patch, and the OP). If they make it time-consuming to get, people complain that it's boring and tedious (see: what people are doing right now).

So what is the correct choice? Well, there isn't one. No matter what you choose, you won't please everybody. I feel Square Enix did the best they could in this situation; they gave us multiple choices. We have the easy but rather time-consuming option: the relic weapon chain. And we have the much more difficult but arguably less time-consuming option (unless RNG hates you, as it seems to hate me): the BCoB weapon.

That's the thing about a grind though, pace yourself, you burn out of course you're not gonna have fun. I can feel myself burning out from the light portion doing the same boss over and over again can be a bit tiresome though it is a nice change of pace from when I was doing dungeons to gather alexandrite lol.

There are other games out there, if you burn out play something else, come back to the game later, you'll feel refreshed, anything gets boring if you do it over and over again.

Yes Relic is and was a real pain but if you have started it after 2.4 it is way easier then it was trust me.
Relic is not at all needed to progress end game as their is weapon alternatives that get the job done so there is no need to rush if you want Relic but still want to do end game content

Good luck. I don't know of any other game that is more engaging right now with a ton more promising content on the horizon. Something I love about the game, some thing I hate, but the goods out weigh the bads for me so I'll be here for a while.

@OP - Just stay man, it takes time and patience for most things. I have a full time+ job as well (+ = overtime) single father and all, and I play when I can and still enjoy the hell out of it. When it's a long F.A.T.E. I usually try to do something else in RL put the volume way up, and when it goes I'm there.

Although my post is burried, I hope you have a chance to read this and re-think about leaving the game. Relic quest is exactly what it is, a lengthy process, just try to chip-away at it little by little. If it is a financial issue then I can understand, but if your going to spend money on a new game everymonth, or even every other month, remember this is still cheaper than that!

I hope to see you around on lodestone in the future but either way Happy Adventuring.

-Tari

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Originally Posted by Zaft

So what is the correct choice? Well, there isn't one.

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Because you looking at them alone, combine 2 or all 3 methodes and you get a nice system!
You cover the brickwall with timeconsuming and maybe the last backup with cashshop (as the easy part).

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

maybe the last backup with cashshop (as the easy part).

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Please no. Anything that save time from cash shop remove any form of satisfaction.
You can grind for hours to get this!
Or pay 19.99 and get it instantly!

You want a relic? put time into it. You don't have time? play 30min-1hour a day and get it over the course of a few weeks/month.

@OP. Bye. Good luck on your search and have fun during 2.5 and 3.0 because we both know you are not leaving for long. You cared enough to make a dramatic forum post so chances are you're going to change your mind after a month or two.

The amount of people in this thread believing that waiting 2 hours for a fate to spawn = challenge O.O

It's the stupidest game design ever, forcing people to do NOTHING for hours. You can't play or help your friends, nothing. How is it challenging exactly? Give me that damn fate so I can do real content. Even mindless grinding is better than this.

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Originally Posted by Aurora-Pendragon

The amount of people in this thread believing that waiting 2 hours for a fate to spawn = challenge O.O

It's the stupidest game design ever, forcing people to do NOTHING for hours. You can't play or help your friends, nothing. How is it challenging exactly? Give me that damn fate so I can do real content. Even mindless grinding is better than this.

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It's time consuming not challenging. If they made it challenging, OP would still complain because its hard. Making is a grind is the best way to do it to make it accessible because anyone can do. Now whenever you want to put time into it or not is not SE's problem
Regardless you can be social and ask a friend or people doing their thing in that zone to watch the fate for you while you do the kills/Leves

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Many peoples say this and i dont understand why, light part was best part in whole chain as there was zero RNG and no artificial time limits. Bacially you could get it done in one go unlike every other step.

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By 'one go' you mean 500 Garuda HMs during bonus light session, right?

The only part I agree with is that the fates in the books are stupid. Sitting around for hours really sucks and it's a stupid timesink.

As for the rest of the game, it is really easy for an MMORPG so I don't really think easier versions are needed. I don't have the time myself to raid but I'm completely fine with it even though I wish I had the time. But it's not the game's fault

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Originally Posted by Parodine

By 'one go' you mean 500 Garuda HMs during bonus light session, right?

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Yup. Yeah it can get rather tedious but its a option if player chooses so, iirc first nexuses were done in 36hours and thats alot faster than novus or animus even if you grinded tomes non-stop thanks to it having no limitations.

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Originally Posted by hallena

Please no. Anything that save time from cash shop remove any form of satisfaction.
You can grind for hours to get this!
Or pay 19.99 and get it instantly!

You want a relic? put time into it. You don't have time? play 30min-1hour a day and get it over the course of a few weeks/month.

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First: i said "maybe" - thats depending on the items and how you get it (example: crating mats) - furthermore there are a lot possibilities to add it, no one said you can insta buy zodiac and skip all steps o_O
Secund: how many items we have? if you need to buy 10 weapons for 100$ or 1000$ do you really think players will do that? I used extremly high numbers to point to the next thing, no one said anything about cheap prices, but that also depends a lot of things as on "first"
Third: Satisfication is your own, you must not buy it from cash shop and miss your "feeling", you must not even do the timesink, thats all just to backup the ones who cant pass the brickwall content.

Well... in the last sentence you show your true motivations,
you feel entitled because you have something others dont... (Edit: In your example its "time") hell, YOU are playing the wrong game and need a game with highscores! i suggest a FPS with kill/death counters!

Waiting is not grinding. It IS boring as all hell though. Waiting hours on end for a mere chance at progressing only not to be able to progress is frustrating and feels like a waste of time. Relics are many things, but certainly not for casual players who want to feel like they're genuinely progressing.

You'd be better off doing pick-up raids in Duty Finder if you want a sense of accomplishment within a 2 hour time frame.

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Originally Posted by OogaShaka

I am done, insane relic quest lines,waiting hours for fate spawns for books/allied seals, no easier mode for raid content so I can see the whole game, crafting items that take a million mats to do.

Listen most of us have real jobs we have to work and a life we want to live.

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Basicly this, but I'm not quitting the game, just boycotting the whole relic stuff, even though I really want my Yoichi bow.

Relic is fairly hard core in the amount of stuff you have to do and time it takes. The casual weapon choice is the gerrot masterworks weapons or shiva weapons.

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if you need to buy 10 weapons for 100$ or 1000$ do you really think players will do that?

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Without a doubt. I know people in Guild wars 2 who spent hundreds in the gem store to buy legendaries.

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you feel entitled because you have something others dont... (Edit: In your example its "time")

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You what? The game has been out for more than a year now. If you don't have at the very least nexus, Your problem isn't lack of time but lack of motivation. If you played for 10minute everyday since 2.38 came out, you would still have your nexus by now. Zodiac maybe not

Most people who will tell you "i dont have the time to do this!!" do have the time. they just prefer using that time watching videos or playing other games.

While surely dramatic and at best arguable in several points... I can relate to OP's grievances.

The relic questline, after actually getting the weapon, is no sort of fun. Hell, it's not even challenging - how anyone in their right mind can call being sent back to farm (or camp at) old content that they've already done a million times (or just plain forced to spend millions of gil) "challenging" is way beyond me. It's tedious, it's mind-numbing, it burns people out, heck it even poisons the atmosphere when an unfortunate first-timer gets into a dungeon only to have a tank rush forward without saying anything or waiting for anything and just pulling five mobs at once because they just want to get through it. And ultimately, it really isn't even rewarding: new licks of paint and a different glow effect, finally an actual new weapon that isn't even BiS (because hardcore raiders would whine about not having the strongest, because why do casuals even need such), so much so that it's 10 ilvl below that. Yes, the frustration is understandable. Sure, it's not compulsory; sure, nobody's holding a gun at anyone's head to do it. But consider this: if you have any sense outside doing math for stats, you'd want to do it, because it's a supplement to your job; if you have the slightest of OCD, you'd want to do it because the quest is there, will be there, either on duty list or in open world above the NPC's head, because it can't be turned off. And yes, people want something to do, but they want to have fun doing it - that's why they play a game. All in all, it takes too long of doing stuff that is simply not fun (and not even challenging), for something that doesn't even feel rewarding. And you know, this is only one piece of such content, that feels more of a job than entertainment.

Sure, there are alternatives. Much harder content that can't be done without people forcing you to watch guides until you know them backwards by heart woken up in the middle of the night - and even then it's an immense lot of practice, IF you even find people to take you on. Because this oh-so-much-friendlier-than-that-of-other-games's community is like that, they expect all the experience from randoms they'd take on, and kick them at the first mistake. (While at the same time forcing people to skip actual in-game cutscenes, irony anyone?)

As for challenge: no, I don't think people in general play games to be challenged. If someone wants challenge, they take up a difficult project at work or do sports. A game can havea challenging difficulty, can have content that is challenging, of course. But the whole of it? On a general level? No. Not after a day at work when you arrive home and want to kick back and relax. And as it was pointed out, the relic is nowhere near being a challenge; it's much more just work.

Also, please don't tell me SE couldn't win here. Between "everything being spoon-fed" and "one year old content still an impossible mess", don't tell me there is no middle-ground there. Quite a few threads have already pointed out that it's exactly that mid-tier difficulty that's missing from the game, and quite honestly it's such a wide gap it shouldn't be so hard to fit stuff in there. (Sastasha HM and the Ultros trial do feel like they're getting there, actually, at least at certain points.)

About crafting: well, not million mats, probably, no. But too many different materials that are gated behind not even a single, but often times two or three instances of RNG, only to keep stuff "exclusive"? Hell yes. And once again, it's a problem, because it's either a) insane amount of work again to get them, or b) insane amount of gil to get them. For something that is, many times, simply an item for glamour purposes, like why on earth should exactly the few pieces of casual clothes be among the hardest to obtain? (Yeah, I know, because they apparently can't keep DoL/DoH relevant in other ways.)

To sum it up. The game's been touted as "casual friendly" ever since (before) its launch. The devs (I think even Yoshi himself) have said that when they come up with something, they consider whether they'd find it fun to do, because if they didn't, then surely the players wouldn't either, so it needs changing. Yet, for I don't even know how many patches now, what have we been given? Incredibly mind-numbing and long time-sinks, one right after the other, that feel more job-like than fun and in several cases, not even rewarding. (Personally, by the time I finished my first atma, well before the nerf - I was so brain-dead, I haven't played for a week, and I can't even say I rushed it, seeing how there were days I didn't even touch it; when I finally beat Garuda Ex on the 9000th try, I almost broke my keyboard, I felt anything but a sense of achievement, because it'd gotten so frustrating beforehand.) Everyone seems to crave newer and newer and newer content continuously. But why? It's taxing on the devs, because the team is admittedly very small. The content itself suffers, with anything ranging from bad design to awful bugs. If someone does do it casually, there already is more than enough (relic, gearing up DoL/DoH, all the logs, ex primals, Coil, etc). And those who burn through them - they burn out, many of them generate a toxic environment with bad social interactions (either in-game or even on here), they complain about not having anything to do. Barely a year old, but the item level is almost three times of the actual character level now, while at the same time there still is several content (even as old as the game itself) that cannot be done via random DFs, maybe only with a great lot of luck. Is OP dramatic? Maybe. Is their frustration understandable/justified? Definitely. And it's easy to see how the relic itself is only a last drop in a glass full of water.

Honestly the RNG part SUX. Took a week to get first ATMA no joke. FATE spawning blows "Taken" "Tower of Power" etc, etc. Novus not too bad but SE slowed SBonding in Dungeons not sure why, and light farming is slow and lame.

I get what your sayin but it looks like you might be burning your self out.

BTW if your leavin
Can I has your Sleipnir:) he so peerdy

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Originally Posted by hallena

Most people who will tell you "i dont have the time to do this!!" do have the time. they just prefer using that time watching videos or playing other games.

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Perhaps watching guide videos they're forced to watch, to get better, because actually just going in anywhere and learning by experience is no option these days? Because YT and guides have been there forever, like even 20 years ago everyone played by guides, which also just happen to appear out of nothing, without people actually going in and learning the fights by experience... If it's not a crime for "pros" to want to spend their time with something else than "babying" newbies (apparent reason for forcing others to watch guides), it shouldn't be a crime for those who have 3 free hours a day to also want to squeeze in watching a TV show or two into that, either.

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Originally Posted by Dragoon4life

Honestly the RNG part SUX.

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You should be thankful. When MMOs first appeared, drop rates were around 0.01% for cool items about two decades ago. These days, 1-5% is considered hardcore...lol.

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Originally Posted by Dragoon4life

SE slowed SBonding in Dungeons not sure why

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We had to carry individuals who came in several pieces of SB'ing gear. It's not very fun when people SB at the expense of your time. Your trying to get thru the dungeon quickly when someone else is making you work extra hard so he/she can kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

SB has been changed so you can't force others to SB for you, you have to do it on your own time or with others who are looking to SB.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

it shouldn't be a crime for those who have 3 free hours a day to also want to squeeze in watching a TV show or two into that, either.

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That's not my or SE's problem. If you want to spend that 3 hours watching TV then feel free to do it. but don't complain about not having the time to do something else. You're the one managing your time

The only point I agree with the OP is about having to camp fates for the relic quest (not everyone is unemployed and likes/can afk in their basement while watching series). That's indeed dumb. The rest of his complaints are however not valid imo.

The relic quest is boring, grindy, expensive, and too hard for me to handle. Nothing about the questline, beyond the expanded lore from the initial phase of it, has any sort of appeal.

So, I opted to take a few of the numerous alternatives for high level weaponry, like PVP leveling, primal drops, and Rowena's tokens.

See, i posted about this before. Relic quest is boring. Only completionist and elitist are continuing to do them. The whole point of a game is to have fun. Now yes, it is a choice, and I can understand that the OP feels like he is paying sub fee to be able to enjoy every aspect of the game, within reason.

I only got one relic weapon, for BRD, past atma stage, before nerf. I had farmed one crystal for a damn week, 4 to 5 hours a day before i got it, That's not fun. The RNG was stupid.

And a lot of the community need to realize that we are getting these expansions, patches, etc at a good clip because of the player base that we have. And a majority of the player base are casual or a step up from casual. Its because of them having fun and paying for their sub that we can have decent servers and such. Why would you want to tell people to leave and take their subscription with them baffles me? What if SE said, "hey, this game is for hardcore players, everyone else should go play something else?" My point is that if you enjoy sitting around for +2hrs staring at a screen waiting to do something, more power to you. But just like you feel like you have the right to defend a part of the game that you enjoy, others have the right to attack that same portion of content. And I'm attacking it because IMHO, its dumb.

I've been playing games longer than many people on here have been walking the planet. Its not fun to grind doing nothing. When it starts to feel like a job, its not a game anymore. And these people saying " oh for end game content, you need to watch videos, take an exam, fill out a resume to join a raid squad" etc, etc, you need to wake up. I should't have to watch a video to play a game. Its not football. Its not film study. I learn better by trial and error. I wonder what many of you players would have done in the 80's and 90's, before cheat codes, before internet videos, before automatic save. When games were really challenging.

Stop alienating people from a game that's supposed to be played with others. Damn, if you want to be all big and bad and strut your stuff, go play old content, look for newbies, help them, mentor them, help them to ENJOY the game. I'm tired of going into DF and getting the person that wants to run through stuff, even when the damn game tells you that someone in the party is new. That's disrespectful. The way a lot of you act is why we have so many issues in the real world. People thinking once they get to a certain place, the people below them are expendable, no names, not important. The game wasn't just made for you. And it sure isn't your world, so stop acting like it is and everyone else just lives in it. That's my rant for today. Lol.

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Originally Posted by hallena

If you played for 10minute everyday since 2.38 came out, you would still have your nexus by now

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I can say with full confidence that this is complete bull shit.

1) Normal relic, amdapor keep takes longer than 10minutes.
2) Atma, even after the nerf, you won't get a atma every 2-3 fates.
3) As if someone can magically go online the moment the fate they need pop up for animus, and oh yeah, dungeons take longer than 10 minutes! Also soldiery farming.
4) Alex maps take some time, you need the money to buy materia OR the time to SB. Still takes 2.5 months if you're lucky to get novus.
5) Nexus needs what, 1500-2000 lights? A run gives like 4, and any garu/ramuh/ifrit/shiva takes 1-2 minutes. Will take you atleast 3months for nexus

In the end I've looked at it from your selfish point of few with the fastest PC components around and using the fastest SSD. Oh, and massive server hacks to make everything go the way you want.

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Originally Posted by Xystic

When MMOs first appeared, drop rates were around 0.01% for cool items about two decades ago. These days, 1-5% is considered hardcore...lol.

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I'd actually be fine with that if we got cool items. Instead we got Atma that upgraded a Zenith to a Zenith +1.

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Originally Posted by NoahArks

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I was talking about going from novus to nexus. If you didnt have novus by the time nexus came out then idk what else to tell you because you had plenty of time to do it.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

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The relic quest is also 100% optional. If you don't enjoy it, you don't have to do it, as there are multiple other options for getting perfectly decent weapons. In fact, if you're a casual player, then you really don't need a relic-- the soldiery/poetic token weapons will more than suffice for 95% of the content in the game. The relic quest is there for the people who want to dedicate the time towards getting it. It doesn't require the ability to beat high-level content (unlike the BCoB weapons/Shiva weapons); all it requires is a time investment, thus making it an option for players of all levels who wish to do it.

Nothing is forcing the OP to get a relic weapon. That's entirely his choice.

Another content locust bites the dust.