I've already stated my reasoning for thinking that it'll continue on its current path. I'm sorry you're so arrogant that you can't read before you attempt to condescend to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaddes
Voting with my wallet
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10-26-2014, 12:05 PMZohnax
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10-26-2014, 01:44 PMGaddeshttp://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/upl...-about-gif.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Zohnax
Arrogant? I'm simply replying to someone who decided to start a fight with me when I wasn't even talking to them in the first place. I'll repeat, since you somehow didn't catch it last time, all I originally said was that people should take what a dev says with a grain of salt because things can invariably change. I said this as neither a positive nor a negative thing, just as a fact of life with MMOs. "Promises" are rarely upheld, or at least not in the exact form that it might've initially been formed as. You seem to be looking to start fights, but I think you're mistaking me for someone else in this thread who actually did anything warranting a rebuttal of your type. -
10-26-2014, 02:31 PMDefendPopPunk
Well, good for you. At least you can stick to your guns. Myself though, as much as I hate the cash shop, I love final fantasy (and final fantasy xiv) more than that though, so I'm willing to stick it out. I don't even play a whole lot but I still feel okay giving my sub fees to SE so that I can contribute to the continuation of the game. But that's all I'm going to spend.
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10-26-2014, 02:37 PMDanbo05I'll do one even better....Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyvid
OP, Can I have your account? :D -
10-26-2014, 02:41 PMAmelia_Pond_Behemoth
I'm not a fan of the cash shop, and while I'll still pay for my sub, I plan on not supporting the cash shop. That's how I'll choose to vote
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10-26-2014, 02:43 PMLunarCain
Lets see..other P2P MMO has Cash Shop that Pays to Win. SE is a P2P that sells Armor that is used for Fun and Glamour. So pls explain how is the Cash Shop here helps Pay to win when it clearly doesnt?
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10-26-2014, 02:47 PMAyrJordanDAE see MrHappy cheat at fan fest?Quote:
Originally Posted by gorror
Also www.suckitkipling.com -
10-26-2014, 02:50 PMCynfael
People just don't have enough worthwhile things to complain about, so they prop the cash shop up as the biggest evil in the land and burn it in effigy all over the forums before the damned thing is even released and given a chance to affect anyone's gameplay experience, much less updated once or twice.
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10-26-2014, 03:25 PMMeeDeggiThePunisher
While I think SE can take their cash shop and shove it, I'm also loyal like a dog and it will take more then that to make me quit. I commend you OP if you are really going through with it.
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10-26-2014, 03:53 PMNeverYoloLet's look at how far WoW has gone since opening its cash shop!!Quote:
Originally Posted by maxthunder1
https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/game/wow
....Nope, nothing spectacular. Oh boy, a level boost is the most OP thing there. You could have fun and level a job yourself or pay to have it done instantly for you. Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with ffxiv doing that. Nothings worse than getting RL friends interested in playing the game only to be stuck running low level dungeons with them... I'd pay to boost them to 50!
OP gear? Nope. 98% vanity, 2% long been dying king of the mmorpg universe offering diehard fans instant max level satisfaction on whatever new server they want to play on. (They already will give returning players lvl90 status, so why not pay to have all your characters you never finished promoted too? Oh boy! lvl 90! With .... lvl40 equipment!) -
10-26-2014, 04:08 PMAmberionI guess you haven't heard that they are or will be trying to sell some kind buffs in the Asian market. Then if it goes well there, they where thinking of adding it in EU/NA side.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverYolo
Bad analogy, is bad. It would more be akin to one of those all you can eat places that only have an entrance fee. And then they suddenly started selling some of the things on the side.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverYolo
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10-26-2014, 04:17 PMWelsper59
The people at SE, Yoshi-P included, are all a part of a business. They are not your friends. Again, I must repeat, they are not your friends. If there is a generally accepted means, by the consumer base, for better income (which, by business standards and ideology, means better production of goods to satisfy consumer demands), they'll do it. A cash shop for cosmetics serves a number of purposes. Players who falsely have a sense of principle, and whatever other "feel-good" thought, are only really fooling themselves.
By all means, people should vote with their wallet, but try to pick your battles wisely. Hating on a company for throwing on some goods that serve pure vanity purposes (which is short lived in actual practice by the player), just shows you picked your battle poorly. It serves your purpose, but there are better things for you to hate on than that. If the only worth of the game for you is obtaining every piece of gear/pet/mount/look possible without a cash shop, then it truly is unfortunate for you. I'm sorry it came to that, but you are one of the very... very few that find exclusive worth of a game to be like that. And, as always, not everyone can be pleased when something happens. -
10-26-2014, 04:24 PMNeverYoloYou mean players in Asia are allowed to play for more than 4 hours at a time now? If I was limited to short hours of play because of my country and/or hoards of low income gold sellers, I'd want the most of it too! But, they haven't done this, nor have the published anything stating that they will be doing this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberion
Even so, are we talkin $3.99 all you can eat pizza, $8.99 all you can eat chinese, or $30 all you can eat sushi and snow crab legs and steak...Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberion
I'd rather go to the $8.99 place, and then if I REALLY wanted some high end sushi just for vanity sake... if they offered to sell me some for a little fee, I wouldn't be upset. I'd be happy. Cause I still get a huge selection for $8.99.
HOW'S THAT ANALOGY, ANALOGY JUDGER?! -
10-26-2014, 04:35 PMMykllToo bad there is still more of that code, and bad choices, still in the game, or new bad code, and new bad choices, added to the game. Even so, 2.0 is a much better version overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zohnax
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10-26-2014, 05:00 PMDwillYou mean that Experience Potion that was found in 2013 on the PTR, that was confirmed to be for the asian market only due to their rules on MMO. That same potion we haven't heard of in almost a year ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberion
At this point, it looks you guys are trying to scavenge things to be mad about. -
10-26-2014, 06:59 PMAmberionI was sure it was a fairly new article. Now I'm not sure sure anymore... But what I do know at least, is that Blizzard is looking into adding convenience items. That was not mined, but from blizzard themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwill
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10-26-2014, 07:03 PMTessaJalloh
That's ok OP, the cash shop will make up for your lost subscription. we got this.
Have fun elsewhere. -
10-26-2014, 07:09 PMMiya_CarbuncleApparently Chinese players also have to pay hourly due to the gold selling sweat shops getting really bad over there as well. Felt I should add that in.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverYolo
http://wow.joystiq.com/2014/10/03/wo...s-up-in-china/ -
10-26-2014, 07:17 PMRhysatiConsidering what he says usually isn't accurate and we've been slammed time and time again by believing what was said...no thanks. I'm not going to put my trust in any dev that adds a cash shop to a subscription model. There is no place for double dipping. And every time they play damage control and tell the playerbase not to worry, they always end up caving at some point to pressure and demands from higher up and add more and more things bit by bit until you suddenly have boosters, cosmetic outfits, pets, mounts, etc and all of the new good stuff comes out in the shop instead of in the game itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zohnax
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10-26-2014, 07:20 PMYshnal
The OP simply made a non-raging post to give SE his reason as of why he's leaving the game. Why can't some of you let him do whatever he wants, and give his feedback just as SE has told us countless times to do? Is it so important to you and to your lives to belittle or actually care about where the OP puts his money on? Is he paying with your money? Are you getting money from him? Then why don't you stop acting like little kids that think that they're funny, and simply move on? Grow up.
And it doesn't matter if the cash shop makes up for his lost subscription. The fact is that he doesn't enjoy the game with it and he chooses to leave. There's nothing bad about it, nor did he say that the game will fail without his sub. He is simply being true to his feelings and does what every responsible consumer should do in his situation. It's as simple as that. -
10-26-2014, 07:54 PMEye_GoreIts an open forum. people can comment if they wish. If you don't want feedback from the community then send SE an email directly. Also how do you know that they are not little kids?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yshnal
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10-26-2014, 08:45 PMYshnalSice when do snarky comments count as feedback or add anything to a discussion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eye_Gore
And even kids have to grow up. Just because they're kids that doesn't mean that they can do and say whatever they please. -
10-26-2014, 08:55 PMMiyu20Sorry but I am really tired right now so I can't connect the two but how does Cash shop encourage further RMT?Quote:
Originally Posted by AttacKat
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10-26-2014, 09:01 PMIllya
Are there even any sub MMOs left which don't have a cash shop? OP is going to find it difficult to play a new game when he finds out all the other sub MMOs have cash shops too. He'll have to play a F2P MMO and those are blatantly P2W in their cash shops. Have fun with that!
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10-26-2014, 09:03 PMStrejdaTom
I believe negative feedback is way more useful than positive feedback. So I am quite glad when people tell SE the reason why they are leaving.
For me leaving because of something that is not yet ingame is not a good idea, for someone it is a valid reason. I am against cash shop but I will wait a few months how it turns out before rush leaving.
But still thanks for providing SE with valuable feedback. Better than whiteknighting 24/7 or swallowing their every decision. -
10-26-2014, 09:08 PMAlukah"Since when do snarky comments count as feedback or add anything to a discussion?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_Arcainess
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10-26-2014, 09:08 PMElven
The cash shop is only selling crappy vanity gear ain't it?
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10-26-2014, 10:47 PMApolloGenXYou ignored #1 and the topic of the thread - You ignored what is apparently a reversal in what they told us already. This is why people don't trust the cash shop rhetoric... and it also points out my biggest concern. Cash shops are the hallmark of revenue issues. If they are having revenue issues, there are other problems... and zero amount of promises will matter. They will be forced to do what they have to for revenue, regardless of what Yoshi goes out and tells players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_Arcainess
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10-26-2014, 11:03 PMAbriaelQuote:
Originally Posted by gorror
This. Upvote for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistaire
Actually no. I'm afraid this post indicates a severe lack of knowledge in how the gaming market works and a bit of tunnel vision. Cash shop in no way indicates by itself any kind of revenue issue. It indicates, like DLCs, season passes, pay-for cosmetic items in a myriad of games and similar vehicles of additional revenue, that the publisher is... looking for additional revenue. That's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApolloGenX
This doesn't mean they're not making enough money. As a matter of fact all the indications for investors document indicates that FFXIV's revenue is strong and improving. But no matter how strong the revenue, publishers are *always* looking for sources of additional income, because it's their job.
World of Warcraft has had a cash shop for the longest time, and definitely did not have any kind of "revenue issue" when it was implemented.
I quote from the latest quarterly release:
All previous releases since the launch of 2.0 had similar statements indicating growth.Quote:
Massively multiplayer online role playing games such as “FINAL FANTASY XIV” and “DRAGON QUEST X,” have been making favorable progress.
Final Fantasy XIV actually made them revise their earning forecasts upwards back in May.
The equation "they're looking for more money = they are in trouble" is an extremely ignorant one to make, and from what we know is also utterly false in the case of a successful game from FFXIV, so you may want to leave the tinfoil hat at home, and justify your dislike of the cash shop just with what it is, a personal dislike, instead of trying so hard to back it up with false assumptions you can't make and that conflict with everything we know (which is unfortunately a problem with internet discussion. Many seem to be afraid to admit that they just dislike something without factual justification, so they have to invent knowledge they simply don't have).
Mictrotransactions are an extremely rooted element in today's gaming market, and there's simply no reason for a company aiming to generate revenue like square enix to ignore that revenue source when they have ways to utilize it without impacting the balance of the game, like almost every developer out there does. You're free not to like them, but using them to justify baseless conclusions on the game's performance is just a bit silly.
I'll give you a hint: Games with revenue issues don't go 'round organizing fan festivals in three different parts of the world, nor are heavily present at every major gaming event taking up an extremely relevant part of a publisher's top tier booth.
A good way to avoid blundering around blindly when talking about revenue is checking the documentation for investors first, and get some insight on how the specific market works. Your post indicates that neither those steps have been performed, replaced at best by hearsay, at worst by random guessing. -
10-26-2014, 11:30 PMFaiyez
Somebody call the waambulance...
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10-26-2014, 11:52 PMAttacKatIt is your option to disagree all you like, but you cannot disagree with the fact that many times the man in charge has danced around his words, claiming he never said them in many letters and interviews and does a 180 degree flip on his stand of these issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_Arcainess
Btw, that 0.01% is very simple math, just take 30 (plots) x 16 (wards to be), x 3 (cities), allocated among close to 2m subs (peak was touted at 2.2m). If they need to open cash shops just so they can move from 0.01% housing to the rest of the population, I wish them luck.
Cash shops = encourages RMT, if SE needs to generate money via cash shop for useless in game items, why shouldn't RMT do the same for any other necessary in-game item (gil)? -
10-27-2014, 12:10 AMCynfael
Cash shops only influence RMT when the items are not bound to the purchaser and are desirable to trade.
It's likely that SE will make cash shop fluff bound to the character that retrieves it. Allowing players to turn around and sell the items for gil would be a sanctioned form of RMT. I don't really care either way since people who want to do RMT try to do it regardless, and gil is a fairly worthless currency that, aside from Novus and crafter melds, buys almost nothing of actual gameplay value, but they probably won't want to go there. -
10-27-2014, 12:20 AMAttacKat
As I said in my original post ...
1. ARR will be sub-based only -> Cash shop
2. ARR will not be RNG/time sink -> relic / most end game drops
3. Housing for everyone -> 0.01%
Most important of all -> Yoshi-P = can no longer be trusted -
10-27-2014, 12:22 AMXavos
That's silly! You don't need to buy anything?
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10-27-2014, 12:29 AMCynfaelARR is still sub-based. A fluff cash shop does not suddenly make it F2P, P2W, or any other flavor.Quote:
Originally Posted by AttacKat
A certain level of time sink is expected for any MMORPG. Aside from Atma (which was a godawful mistake), everything has been fairly reasonable.
Housing is extremely available. Not everyone has access to or can afford their own personal home yet, but FC housing and private rooms therein are accessible and affordable to the masses.
Is Yoshi out to get us? Out to get our money without a doubt, but I can't really blame him for that since it's his job. As long as the game is fun, players are wanting to play, and the cost is in line with what players are willing to pay, everyone's needs are more or less met in this business relationship. -
10-27-2014, 12:35 AMDanima
I don't think it will affect RMT in any way...because the items wont be able to sell. They are gonna be bound to ur account. So if u buy a minion or a mount, any of ur chars will get to use it.
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10-27-2014, 12:41 AMRazzle
Cash shop is okay because it's vanity? Why? Because you don't care about vanity and won't be buying anything from it?
Let's have it the other way around. Let's have a P2W Cash shop but have all the vanity in game. Now I don't have to buy anything from it in order to enjoy the game, so I'm completely fine with it. Wonder what about you?
Cash shop have no place in an already P2P game. Some players enjoy vanity more than they enjoy stats. Do they need to pay more to enjoy the game than you do? I think not. -
10-27-2014, 12:52 AMHakuroDK
I'm really getting sick of this discussion.
It's a cash shop, yeah. It sells items that do not at all impact gameplay. If it bothers you that someone who contributes a little extra for something that only looks cool and otherwise operates as something that already exists in the actual game, you can unsub and play something else. The people complaining about a vanity-only cash shop are in a very vocal minority and, whereas the rest of the community is supportive of the cash shop, there is no way to get the developers to change their minds.
You might as well quit now or get used to it, Sisyphus, because your boulder isn't ever reaching the top of the mountain. -
10-27-2014, 12:53 AMCynfaelAnother post predicated on the assumption that vanity will suddenly become cash-shop only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razzle
If we keep getting vanity updates in the usual quantity with the addition of some cash shop options on top of that, what will there be to complain about? -
10-27-2014, 01:03 AMApolloGenXActually no. It was Yoshi himself that made this connection with his original comments on not having a cash shop because subs would sustain the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
You would claim that listening to Yoshi is best, but ignore his original perspective on why a game would have a cash shop.
It's very selective of you.
As far as how the game is doing- I have no comment. They are very opaque about their numbers and sub performance and I ignore marketing BS. So, really there is no way to know.