Reduce subscription cost to compensate

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Originally Posted by swordrain

Sorry but it doesn't need all of the spins people are putting on it to rationalize it. If the developers straight up lied to everyone, it shouldn't be spun as anything else than what it is. A bold faced lie. I had to spam it to that other person in the other thread because they kept trying to twist in in a very politician-y kind of way, so I had to keep defeating his twisted statements by repeating what was a proven truth, and what isn't open to interpretation.

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Very true.
Sadly, all we can do is hope SE knows what they are doing and will back it up somehow.

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Originally Posted by Nutz

Just so you know, as a business owner you are required by law (in the USA) to pay for insurance that you're never going to use (and doesn't cover any conceivable action). Just thought you should know that the world isn't always fair.

That said, this is a grievous oversight or a lark, I'm not really sure yet.

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You understand my point, do you not? I'm not saying I literally believe they should reduce my sub. I'm saying that this is a product I've purchased for entertainment. I'm not a business owner. I'm a customer who's paying for something that they refuse to give to me.

It's like buying a sofa only to find out right after swiping your card that it won't be in stock for 5 months, and then being told no refunds. Is it legal? Sure. Does it make you angry? You sure bet it does.

Players like me who were so sick of other MMOs, came here for fun and solace from those games. Hearing about personal housing was the first time I was excited about an upcoming patch in a while. I worked hard, all DoH and DoL maxed. I don't raid, so this was the thing I was looking forward to since I even heard it was MAYBE (850k-5 mill for a large pfffft) coming up. I feel betrayed. I saved up this whole time, I can't imagine someone who raids content would even have time to farm this ridiculous amount of gold for a medium or large house when crafting and selling is what I do. It was such a fun aspect to me, and now its just crushed. I guess the people who succumb to the incessant whispers from gold farmers are the ones that will be buying plots. Maybe SE gave up and partnered with them.

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Originally Posted by swordrain

You understand my point, do you not? I'm not saying I literally believe they should reduce my sub. I'm saying that this is a product I've purchased for entertainment. I'm not a business owner. I'm a customer who's paying for something that they refuse to give to me.

It's like buying a sofa only to find out right after swiping your card that it won't be in stock for 5 months, and then being told no refunds. Is it legal? Sure. Does it make you angry? You sure bet it does.

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Yes, I do understand where you're coming from, and SE may have been wiser to just not even bother implementing personal housing this update, but they're not required to allow all players to experience everything in the game. This particular MMO is a lot better about letting each player do everything than most are, but the idea that there's competition for something shouldn't make you eschew the game or anything.

It's annoying, but they've said that they will double the amount of land in 2.4 (meaning anyone willing and able can buy a house then). I did just see that you're from Balmung though, so I suppose that is perhaps a special case with the housing situation. Over in Behemoth, for instance, I might be lucky enough to buy a small plot for 1.8M in ward 1 Ul'Dah tomorrow. From what I can tell the situation is not so grave in most places, though with individuals buying houses there won't be any small houses left at all tomorrow night.

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Originally Posted by Nutz

Yes, I do understand where you're coming from, and SE may have been wiser to just not even bother implementing personal housing this update, but they're not required to allow all players to experience everything in the game. This particular MMO is a lot better about letting each player do everything than most are, but the idea that there's competition for something shouldn't make you eschew the game or anything.

It's annoying, but they've said that they will double the amount of land in 2.4 (meaning anyone willing and able can buy a house then). I did just see that you're from Balmung though, so I suppose that is perhaps a special case with the housing situation. Over in Behemoth, for instance, I might be lucky enough to buy a small plot for 1.8M in ward 1 Ul'Dah tomorrow. From what I can tell the situation is not so grave in most places, though with individuals buying houses there won't be any small houses left at all tomorrow night.

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2 Reson why that comes up here.

1.) Balmung is under the top tier Prices so under 4 Million is nothing to go with.

2.) the huge amount of Players. the 6th Wards in all 3 Areas was in less than 2 weeks allready full and i still se more than enought FC's running around with Rank 6+ and no House.

I welcome the doubling of the Wards but with the fact Personal Housing will be in that FC Wards too it get even harder to get one..... for both Factions.

Balmung is indeed one of the special cases I suppose though hardly the only one. Considering the servers that suffer are obviously the largest, its hardly fair to expect them to suffer because other servers are rolling in land. Im afraid I'm with swordrain on this. I am paying a company for my own enjoyment. I have played other mmo's. Never have I been locked out of content, given that I was willing to work for/toward it. No amount of work is going to guarantee that you can get a house on a larger server but not getting one will certainly continue to exclude you from more and more content. Also, doubling the amount will as you said, not benefit larger servers.

This is all very disappointing and unfortunate for all of those who barely scrape by in gil and barely managed to scrape together a few million (Myself included) and i'm sure the devs and producer could see it... But I still have much faith in the game and our devs so i'm sure things will get better, especially for the expansion of wards next coming patch. To view it optimistically, we know what to expect now and we know how much we need to save up for so we can buckle down and make it work for ourselves! For Coin and Country!

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Originally Posted by Lenoir

This is all very disappointing and unfortunate for all of those who barely scrape by in gil and barely managed to scrape together a few million (Myself included) and i'm sure the devs and producer could see it... But I still have much faith in the game and our devs so i'm sure things will get better, especially for the expansion of wards next coming patch. To view it optimistically, we know what to expect now and we know how much we need to save up for so we can buckle down and make it work for ourselves! For Coin and Country!

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My Gil went pretty fast down after getting the FC house and the Room. Somehow i knew also that they will fucking up something what they talk for almost 2 years now.

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Originally Posted by Lenoir

For Coin and Country!

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I have my coin. XD. I just need....my country I guess. My small, square little country....that cost 4 to 5 million gil.

I suppose I am in the minority here, in some ways. While I am sad that personal and FC housing are not separated, as it was suggested they would be, I do not see reason to fret. I won't be buying a house. I could, if I wanted to, stay up until the patch comes and grab one ASAP. But, honestly, I think I'd rather wait for 2.4 - save up some more gil... maybe.

Honestly, while it is a feature that I was looking forward to, and want to take advantage of, I can't bring myself to be angry over it. SE is doing a great job rolling things out every month or so, keeping me working on new content all the time. The game is young for an MMO, at least as far as ARR is concerned. Things can still be fixed, or improved. I paid the $15 a month before Personal housing. I'll still pay it. Its not as if I am losing anything - just not /yet/ gaining that one aspect of the game. Maybe I will in the future.

I can't blame anyone for being mad, of course. Just sharing my perspective.

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Originally Posted by Valonir

Why don't you? Because.. you don't have 4 mil to spend? Or because you think that all 6 wards will be bought out before you even log in? I'm very, very confused by your posts.

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Incase you haven't seen, since swordrain, you, and I are all on the same server, the housing wards before FC/single player competition for plots existed, -has- sold out nearly instantaneously.

Fuck reducing subscription fee's, only way I would continue playing this game is if they make it free. They should have never introduced personal or fc housing if they didnt have the "servers" for it. Period.

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Originally Posted by Twinbros

Fuck reducing subscription fee's, only way I would continue playing this game is if they make it free. They should have never introduced personal or fc housing if they didnt have the "servers" for it. Period.

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Since that isn't happening any time soon...

Bye.

My opinion here. You CHOSE to have your character on Balmung, one of the highest population servers. You became part of the problem rather than being part of the solution, when it comes to server population balance. You should be getting a penalty, being not able to have a house, if you want to be part of the problem.

You want to solve it? Move your character to Jenova, or any of the lower population servers. Our houses will not only be half the price, but I will bet they will have a heck of a lot higher availability.

Stop ruining the actual discussion on this with your "reduce subscription" nonsense. I'm not at all happy with the personal housing decisions, but I completely disagree with any changes with the subscription model or pricing. This thread makes me sick.

A house is for sale. Be it an individual or a group that wants to buy it the price shouldn't change.
The ideal solution would be to open up separate wards for individual player housing so sizes and costs can be accommodated for the individual.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

My opinion here. You CHOSE to have your character on Balmung, one of the highest population servers. You became part of the problem rather than being part of the solution, when it comes to server population balance. You should be getting a penalty, being not able to have a house, if you want to be part of the problem.

You want to solve it? Move your character to Jenova, or any of the lower population servers. Our houses will not only be half the price, but I will bet they will have a heck of a lot higher availability.

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If I wanted to play on something dead and disappointing I'd just re-install Guild Wars 2.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

プロデューサー兼ディレクターの吉田です。

パッチ2.38で解放される個人宅の土地購入価格について、多数のご意見ありがとうございます。

今回パッチ2.38での購入価格決定について「以前に言っていたFCハウスの土地購入価格よりも、
安くしたいと思っている」という吉田の発言と、現状実装価格の想定が異なる、
というお声をいただいていることについて、経緯をご説明します。

■吉田の発言について■

吉田がこの発言をしたのはこちらのポストにある通り、昨年の12月になります。
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...40#post1684940
当時、パッチ2.1でのFCハウスの価格はレガシープレイヤーとの経済格差を是正し、
できるだけ早くワールド移転を実施するため、FCハウスの土地購入価格を高く設定していました。
そのため「個人宅の構想もあるみたいだけど、こんな高額なギルは払えない」という意見も多くいただき、
このポストの中で「今回公開となったフリーカンパニーの本拠地としてのハウジングとは価格を別に」、
「もっと安く」と記載させていただきました。

ポストの後半にある個人ハウスシステムの内容主旨としましては……

• 現時点（パッチ2.1）のFC土地価格とは全く別になります
• 現時点（パッチ2.1）よりはるかに安くします

という部分になります。

しかし、改めて自身で読み返してみると、「」の括り位置など、非常にわかりにくく、
また当時「とにかく高い」「個人宅もこの金額になるのでは？」というご不安を解消するために、
焦って記述したこともあり、皆さんにご迷惑をおかけしてしまったと反省しております。
この点、ご容赦くださいますと幸いに思います。

■個人宅の土地購入価格の決定経緯■

前提としてパッチ2.1以降、全ワールドの土地販売状況をモニターしながら、
土地の購入価格は段階的に大幅な値下げを実施させていただきました。
また、パッチ2.3では土地価格の下落速度も、最安値に到達する期間を当初3か月だったものから、
1か月という短期間で最安値に到達するよう短縮させていただきました。
これにより、土地価格は6時間毎に数万ギルずつ値下がりし、1か月後に初期価格の半額になります。

また、パッチ2.1以降、ゲーム内の経済を活性化させるため、ギルの入手手段を格段に増やし、
全プレイヤーの皆さんの平均所持ギル量も数倍になっています。
常にこの皆さんの所持ギルを確認させていただいた上で、パッチ2.3投入時の土地価格が、
今回の個人宅公開時の価格においても妥当である、と判断を行いました。

どうしても土地購入価格開始時の値段に注目が集まりますが、1か月で価格は半額になります。
皆さんの平均所持ギル量は、皆さんが想像されている以上に増えており、
個人用に土地を購入する価格をこれ以上下げることは、別キャラクターでの土地占有問題や、
RMT業者の流入を容易くしてしまうことも懸念しています。

また、個人宅の機能についても「栽培」「チョコボ厩舎」を個人でもご使用になりたい、
というフィードバックをできるだけすべて対応させていただくために、
FCハウスと機能同一化を目指し開発を行ってきました。

今回価格を設定する際に、FCで土地を購入する際の価格と、個人で土地を購入する際の価格差を
多少なりともつけるべきか、検討しなかったわけではありませんが、現状の経済状況と、
今後の拡張性を鑑みて、同一の価格設定となっております。ご了承ください。

■FCハウスと個人宅のハウジングゾーンが同一である理由について■

最大のポイントは土地の有効活用になります。FFXIVは運営安定期になり、新設されるFCの数は、
緩やかに減り、それに伴い新規FCハウスの需要も下降線となります。
また、土地の売却仕様などの拡張により、土地需要が満たされたあとは、
徐々にではありますが、区画内に空き土地が発生するようにもなります。

一方個人宅は、皆さんの所持ギル量は常に増え続けることにより、時間が経つにつれ、
個人宅の需要が増え、土地の空きが多く必要とされることになります。

FCのハウジングエリアと個人宅のハウジングエリアを分けたとして、FCの土地が空いている場合
「空いてるFCの土地があるなら、そちらに個人宅を建てたい！」というご要望が、
今後出てくることは確実と思いますし、この両者のバランスを合致させるために、
同一区画内で自由に土地が買えるという仕様にし、土地の効率的な活用ができることを想定しています。

■まとめ■

ハウジングシステム関連は、必要になるギルの高額さや、FCで遊ぶか、個人で遊ぶかなど、
多くの要素が絡み、実装コストや需要の配分も複雑になるため、我々開発の判断内容と、
プレイヤーの皆さん全員の思惑が、どうしても一致しない面が出てしまうことと思います。

ですが、パッチ2.1以降そうであったように、これからもお時間はいただくことになりますが、
きちんと皆さんの需要やフィードバックにお応えしていくつもりでおりますので、
引き続き、よろしくお願いいたします。

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For those that have not seen it yet in the JP forum, this is the reply given by our Producer on his thoughts of why Personal Housing is the way it is now, I am sure some of you can understand Japanese? I was told when linking this to other people that they have a translator for browsers to understand his message so I will not type it in English to make my post longer.

Y'all are a bunch of crybabies.

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Originally Posted by swordrain

Yes there is. There is no availability. You don't understand the issue at all. The issue isn't price. There simply is no availability. Now we'll have to compete against not only other FCs (from which we already lost) but also individual players. You don't understand the issue whatsoever. Don't comment on it if you don't understand what you are commenting on.

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No, it's you who doesn't understand at all. It's a free market and the early bird gets the worm. If you don't have the money to play it's not SE's fault you can't play at the table. You didn't plan for this properly. That doesn't entitle you to a subscription discount. That's where you are wrong. SE is releasing housing piecemeal so someone doesn't buy up all the housing in the game. It appeared to work when FC housing was released. They're doing the same here. You don't like it, quit, or wait until 2.4 for round 2.

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Originally Posted by OldGeezer

If you don't have the money to play it's not SE's fault you can't play at the table.

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What an incredibly silly and unfounded thing to say.

SE designed the game, they designed the methods of gil dropping and they designed the insane scarcity of player housing. It's absolutely their fault.

You guys should transfer over to some of the smaller servers where there's still plenty of availability and the housing is cheaper! I logged on in Coeurl right when patch was up and bought my house, the ward was still nearly empty an hour or so later. It is really unfortunate that those in large servers are unable to afford housing, but I suppose that goes with the territory of playing on a large server. SE does have a problem with server imbalance, and this might be a way for them to combat it. If housing is really important to you (and you FC, friends, etc), it may be worth considering a transfer.

That being said, I would gladly trade my house for a party finder that isn't abysmal like it is on my server.

There is a very easy solution to reduce your costs to ZERO. The game and its flaws or perceived flaws is either worth it or not. Suggestions for improvement can be useful....crying you should get a discount just cause you did not get a house yet is asinine.

I get where your coming from on this one, but I would also point out that SE has no control over the exchange rates based on global economics. However, it also means that your rate would jump month to month due to the exchange rates betting adjusted as the market moves...