The fundamental problem with hunts

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Originally Posted by Wavytiger

It's too late.. never should have had oils/sands to come out of hunts/allied seals

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Hopefully they learn a deep lesson from all this.

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Originally Posted by Kagari_Asuha

Hopefully they learn a deep lesson from all this.

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That the whole system being based around linear progression was a bad idea?

Did about 3 hours of hunts today just cause I wanted 1 sand for my PLD wep the Zerg was to strong on the later end of that time that unless you were in the zone when it was found you missed it. Was the most tedious thing I've ever done while I have a site that anyone can use that keeps track of timers and tod on each server so that players can stop using pens and paper or excel to keep track of open areas and be able to compete with the ones who use 3rd party apps to radar a zone, tho I stopped shouting when I found marks and only gave pos to party and FC cause on behemoth the hunt ls leader of the biggest one is the most annoying douchebag I have ever seen the macros he has that he spams at every hunt got to the point I had to bs list the idiot so anything to deny that fool some seals is worth it to me and have killed quite a few marks before he even got there. Needless to say I just need to get back to coil cause static broke up and coil at least 10000000x more fun than Zerg fest.

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Originally Posted by Krr

It's interesting to me that hunt apologists never talk about how engaging or fun the activity is, just how many more rewards they got out of it than doing other or previous content.

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Being the Devils Advocate here.

What exactly is there to talk about? lol

Most mob mechanics are more or less complex than a simple run in a regular dungeon, so it's not like the content is bringing anything new to the table rather than peoples accusation of unfair play among each other.

[QUOTE=Chocolate_Rain;2305963]

1) Soldiery does "not" need to be removed from hunts, your suggestion will only fish more rage, hunts need to be party force pop/claim for the umpteenth time, and they need to be locked at one pop per week, this "completely" eliminates all this lemming hunt zerg & blist BS, removing soldiery from hunts is "not" an option.

2) Number 1 already does this.

3) First you want soldiery removed from hunts, then you want logs bought with it, now we have two bad ideas.

4) I don't have a problem with this.

Your suggestions simply eliminate hunts as a common sense option for anything, this content can be fixed without tossing it out with the bathwater altogether, and telling me that I90 gear is there doesn't wash because I got that in days, people who want to grind GC gear for vanity will burn your sig at the stake.

Why should a seal cap be introduced to make it take longer to get I70 gear that is much more seal expensive to buy than I90 gear when people only want it for vanity most likely?, sorry this makes as much sense to me as SE having the prices reversed in the first place.

I90 gear sand I70 GC gear should have had prices switched anyway.

You are not suggesting choices here, you are "forcing" them, this is nothing but another bad fix suggestion list for an already bad situation, and again will simply make the rage over hunts worse, I don't understand why people keep asking for more rage.

This open world content everybody wanted didn't fit SEs existing content theme, was horribly implemented, and now we should make it irrelevant instead of fixing it right?, make them "force pop and capped per week", instead of more band-aids over a festering infection.

[QUOTE=Lamentations;2308604]

I really don't see where you're coming from on this. I can say that I believe that the pricing on the vanity gear is beyond stupid. The fact that you can buy one of the most powerful pieces of the game for 750 seals while it takes you 1700 to buy a piece you get simply for glamour is just bad. I think we can both agree that a readjustment would be in order.

My ideas are based around the fact that the vast vast majority of people currently doing hunts are not doing them because they want to, it's because the rewards are simply too good to ignore. The zerg and blist that you claim as the main issues are merely symptoms of this larger issue.

Your suggestion helps with the zerg, but doesn't do anything to alleviate the main issue. The same amount of people will still feel they need to do it, but now less will be able to do it. Unless the "popping" that you're referring to is some sort of leve-type thing. I could see that working, but it's not hunting; it's questing.

The only thing I can see that could cause rage by my suggestion is the fact that you can't buy soldiery gear with allied seals currently. I have no problem with SE adapting the costs of it to seals as long as my previous suggestions are still in play. This allows people to stick to dungeons if they want, and allows people who want to hunt to be allowed to do so without having to do dungeons.

If I'm missing anything, please, feel free to explain your point.

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Resistance is futile!

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If you cant beat them, join them!

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My name is Legion, for we are many!

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You are a Zerg, you are one of US, even when you dont know it yourself :)

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Originally Posted by Lamentations

This open world content everybody wanted didn't fit SEs existing content theme, was horribly implemented, and now we should make it irrelevant instead of fixing it right?, make them "force pop and capped per week", instead of more band-aids over a festering infection.

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By limiting the number of times you can do hunts per week, you are effectively imposing a limit on the number of seals (and myth/soldiery) you get, so I don't know why you would argue for the former and oppose the latter.
And restricting it to once per week makes it pretty well worthless on all fronts; now it becomes around 5 minutes of content for an ultimately trivial amount of rewards. :-\
Unless you mean once per week per mark which... still isn't ideal, but is better.

That said, I don't support the pop system because that turns this into more pre-formed group content and that's something I'll never enjoy. Making content free-form/hot-joinable is the only way to go for me.
Plus it turns yet another form of content into a scheduled checklist you've got to slog through and that's never fun. :-/

what I don't get is.
Why they made the mithology gear buyable with allied seals????
WHY.
they basically throw mitho at you, after the last patch.
you can get a full iLv90 gear in no time.
you can get your 1500mith book and a piece of gear,too, if you want.

I really don't get it.

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Originally Posted by Dark-Saviour

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That would make harder to kill rank S mobs though. The wrost of all is that you can get a book from A and S mobs.

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Originally Posted by giantslayer

Most players will grind the content that gives then the greatest reward for the least time and effort.

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And then drops in forum whining the content was too easy ;)

If you can't beat the zerg......

Personally, I just don't participate in hunts because I don't find them fun due to how they've been implemented and because of all the attitudes.

There are some great suggestions in this thread, but I think it's too late to do damage control as far as rewards are concerned until the release of TCoB with all new BiS pieces coming out.

What I'm more worried about is PF groups not allowing people below iLV 105~110 join for stuff, when that's not needed to clear content.

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Originally Posted by Krr

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While I take umbrage at your use of the term 'exploit,' as that implies cheating and not a clever use of game mechanics (of which hunt zerging is the latter, by and large I agree with your sentiment that other content ought to made more enticing. To the credit of hunts and hunters, though, I must say I haven't seen something unite the community, even in part, to the degree hunts have.

For those that this it's too late for adjust the rewards given out by hunts because of the backlash it will create in the people who are currently taking advantage of this, is something that will be short lived. I think it will create more damage if SE turns a blind eye to the imbalance of rewards hunts offer over other content. With an estimated 3 months until 2.4 when the new gear level is introduced hunts will continue to be the focus of any player who is looking to progress their gear in any fashion. Once they finish gearing their main in iLvl 110, they will move on to the alts and use hunt rewards to gear their alts there after.


There is no reason to step back into any other content for gear progression ever.... EVER! EVER!

The rewards given are unbalanced plain and simple. Take away myth and soldiery from hunts, direct people to other content to obtain certain currency to outfit their characters. Set a limit on how many bloody log books you can buy to 3 a week. so you can buy 1 sand or 1 oil a week, or roll them over into a reset to stock pile for multiple purchases.

It will not create a world of haves and have not's.

It will be a world of haves and will have soon players.

with about 12 weeks until patch 2.4 that's a lot of time for those will have soons to catch up.

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Originally Posted by Defteros

what I don't get is.
Why they made the mithology gear buyable with allied seals????
WHY.

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they explained that in one of the previews / Q&As. they are getting ready for 2.4 where Mythology will be abolished and Soldiery will be uncapped.

you still want myth gear available for glamour.

this is to be expected every 6 months, this game will probably not have more than 2 tiers of tomes. and i hope they stop adding more seals, we already have Wolf Marks, Company Seals and now Allied Seals.

please make everything purchasable with those 5 things or gil in the future.

I will attack a monster if I happen to be in the area when it pops - but other than that hunts aren't worth the stress for me. All this talk of "pulling early" and "waiting for the rest" is absolute hogwash. There is no such thing as pulling early, and players are not beholden to one another to make sure that Mr. Happy is at a pull.

SE, you dropped the ball on this and then waited too long to do anything about it. It's the worst content you implemented, prone to exploitation and it's shown how mean and abusive players in this community can be to one another. Congratulations. I hope you are patting yourselves on the back.

Heya guys ^^

How about have hunt boards into respective FCs instead?

The marks would be only for the FC, with a different mark for everyone (I'm sure SE can even make Ladybugs x 1000 to kill as an example) Same Ranks, 24-man for S or more.

So no one would be in the way of any others, as well it would make more people to mingle with FCs, growing them, thereby having more people and socialize more, no rage/threats.

Could that be a viable possibility?

Thanks

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

Heya guys ^^

How about have hunt boards into respective FCs instead?

The marks would be only for the FC, with a different mark for everyone (I'm sure SE can even make Ladybugs x 1000 to kill as an example) Same Ranks, 24-man for S or more.

So no one would be in the way of any others, as well it would make more people to mingle with FCs, growing them, thereby having more people and socialize more, no rage/threats.

Could that be a viable possibility?

Thanks

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You'd get rage from those who like to be in small fc's(yes there are alot of them) and would only really work for daily/weekly marks. Not the elite marks that are the true targets. Changing the reward structure so that no one feels forced to hunt is, imo, going to be the cure to this.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

And then drops in forum whining the content was too easy ;)

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I have only participated in two hunts (an S and a B) because I just happened to stumble upon the monsters and have earned a grand total of 5 allied seals. Those two hunts were too easy, by the way. All I had to do was wait for the horde to attack and shoot spells from a distance.

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Originally Posted by Dark-Saviour

By limiting the number of times you can do hunts per week, you are effectively imposing a limit on the number of seals (and myth/soldiery) you get, so I don't know why you would argue for the former and oppose the latter.
And restricting it to once per week makes it pretty well worthless on all fronts; now it becomes around 5 minutes of content for an ultimately trivial amount of rewards. :-\
Unless you mean once per week per mark which... still isn't ideal, but is better.

That said, I don't support the pop system because that turns this into more pre-formed group content and that's something I'll never enjoy. Making content free-form/hot-joinable is the only way to go for me.
Plus it turns yet another form of content into a scheduled checklist you've got to slog through and that's never fun. :-/

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I said "deleting" rewards was a bad idea, not capping them, read it again, your arguing with yourself not me.

And no it doesn't make the content worthless "if" rewards are adjusted elsewhere, your only disseminating part of what I said and leaving the rest out.

The force pop system is the only way to get rid of all this zerg/rage/leash/reset/blist crap, or they simply have to make hunts useless altogether so no one will bother to do them at all.

Also im a bit confused as to why you bother to play an MMO at all if pre-formed group content is something you don't enjoy.

[QUOTE=Chocolate_Rain;2308834][QUOTE=Lamentations;2308604 The same amount of people will still feel they need to do it, but now less will be able to do it. Unless the "popping" that you're referring to is some sort of leve-type thing. I could see that working, but it's not hunting; it's questing.

Sorry, I missed this, yes they need to cancel the hunting and get with the questing, unless they can fix the hunting.

In another thread I suggested they bury these hunts in the leve system, as have others.

If they cant find a way to fix this open world content they botched so horribly they need to do this, and taking myth/soldiery out of hunts is not the answer, slowing the gain down is, and at this point they need to do it very soon or it will no longer matter as people will grind out all the gear and XIV will become FFIlvl110 online, only race/dye color (assuming it can be dyed at all), will distinguish anyone from anyone else.

The "biggest" problem with these hunts is the fact that you can hunt the marks "continuously", changing that will refocus people back to dungeons etc. if done properly.

If this is how open world content will be implemented regularly, stop doing open world content, the open world "doesn't" feel more alive now, it feels like a world full of lynch mobs looking for NM's to hang, or anyone who pulls without the permission of an arbitrary amount of bloodthirsty mobsters.

I repeat, "giving gamers things in games and then taking them away again is always a very bad idea", far more people will rage about this than currently do, especially that bloodthirsty lynch mob, and no other proof is needed than how hard they grind this content in hordes.

Obviously because they grind these hunts to the exclusion of most other content, when they come to the forums to scream they will not be the vocal minority, and if that group ragequits in large numbers SE is going to have an even bigger problem.

The only way possible for your suggestion to work is to give seals a myth/soldiery conversion rate similar to philo, this however will not stop the ragefest that hunts are if they remain continuous targets.

Lower weekly currency caps, force spawn/claims with caps yes, deleting current rewards no, it will just cause more howling.