PvP still zero fun

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Originally Posted by Eissels

Uh... No?

People are limited to the highest tier of PvP gear, but it doesn't auto balance.

.. In like anything.

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It is a blanket restriction based on ilvl. Not everyone fully stack PvP gear anymore, it is usually a mix of PvP and PvE (2pc or 4pc bonus). All gears in PvP environemtns are down to restricted ilvl.

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Originally Posted by DishSoap

This is extremely old. Pre-Burning Crusade I believe. Also I agree as a melee PVP is kind of unfun. Wolf's Den is just "catch the healer" and Frontlines is Final Fantasy: Arathi Basin.

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If they had made Final Fantasy: Alterac Valley (the original Alterac valley) I think I would have been a little more happy about it. That gave a mix of PvE with PvP, and players kind of acted like a boss mechanic in and of themselves as they defended their NPC leaders.

Hey OP. You need to speak for yourself! There are many of us enjoying Frontlines PvP.

Sure it's not perfect. Sure they can do many things to make it even better.

You also seem to forget that this game is still a baby. It has a lot of room to grow. I look forward to see what they come with next.

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Originally Posted by Ragecake

Hey OP. You need to speak for yourself! There are many of us enjoying Frontlines PvP.

Sure it's not perfect. Sure they can do many things to make it even better.

You also seem to forget that this game is still a baby. It has a lot of room to grow. I look forward to see what they come with next.

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i just wrote my opinion whats your problem

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Originally Posted by Shairine

i just wrote my opinion whats your problem

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I wrote my opinion on your opinion. Whats your problem?

Breaking news eh?

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Originally Posted by Giyari

The real reason people aren't having fun is because they are going alone.

I have fun because I go with my FC, and with voice chat the hilarity is non stop. In addition , our team is more organized and knows how to focus fire targets.

Our dps distract threats to the healers and such, we use tactics.

You get non of that with random people.

If you are going in alone, you are not doing it right.

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Pretty much this, along with knowing your role.

OP you sound like you want your PLD to go in and be a monster of destruction but that just isn't how GLA/PLD works. In PVP you are there to help your group in the tank role, you distract people, you stun lock an opponent, you hit that annoying mage with a silence midcast. No you won't win in a one on one duel most of the time, but that isn't what you should be doing anyway. If you dislike the way GLA/PLD works in PVP, may I suggest you try another role? That is the purpose of the multiclass system after all.

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Originally Posted by Shairine

i just wrote my opinion whats your problem

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If you have posted your "opinion" on a discussion fourm, you are also open to criticism and now you are just being criticized. You have to take it or you shouldnt post.

Also, it sound to me that you are making same mistake as those who claims Marauder > Warrior in the Frontline? Fundamentally, you just doesnt understand the basics of Paladin. You are not enjoy the Frontline because you are trying to play a job in aggressive way when it is fundamentally a defensive job.

I have never had any interest in PvP because its always boiled down to the basic formula of he/she who has the better PC/faster internet generally wins. Final Fantasy has never been about PvP anyway. It used to be about story driven content but they abandoned that so who knows, you may see them focus more on PvP.

I enjoy the PvP. I was a little on the fence about Wolves Den, but really like Frontlines. Also they did a good job when the redesigned the whole PvP system.

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Originally Posted by Sonofbaldo

I have never had any interest in PvP because its always boiled down to the basic formula of he/she who has the better PC/faster internet generally wins. Final Fantasy has never been about PvP anyway. It used to be about story driven content but they abandoned that so who knows, you may see them focus more on PvP.

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Thats exactly what people who are bad at PvP say.

I play Wolves Den as a DRG and absolutely love it. I'm always having to pop different skills based on what is happening. If you are simply cycling your combo, be happy that your opponents are probably not very good at PvP, and enjoy your win.

I think what I find most frustrating is in such a large scale pvp mode, the balance is so determined by composition which is a huge variable with so many people. If you spawn into a group with zero healers vs a team with 2-3 healer. The fight is pretty much already decided before you get out of the gate. A unorganized but well comprised team will destroy a well organized but badly comprised team every time.

Sure skill is important when team composition is the same. The better and more organized healer, dps, and support will win the day. But thats rarely the case. More often then not the lesser oranized and lesser skilled players will win a game based on composition alone.

This is the core problem. Outcomes are pre-determined by group makeup. We seen it in Wolves Den, and we see it here.

Secondly I find it personally frustrating as a DPS that so much skill and coordination is required between other DPS to neutrilize healers. Yet its so easy and takes literal coordination beyond simple "oh guess I should esuna that person" to not only stay alive, but to keep rest of team alive. I am not saying Healer should be easy to kill, it just healer should have to be a hell a lot of effort to be hard to kill.

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Originally Posted by Sen_Terrechant

Thats exactly what people who are bad at PvP say.

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Ohh... that hurts... But I agree with Sen_Terrechant, people who are bad in PvP keep on saying bad things about it. PvP is fun that can test your skills as a player

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Originally Posted by Surian

Well, i'll admit that Paladin are REALLY underpowered and dont really deal much damage, period.

But quite frankly, Final Fantasy games will never be PvP-oriented games, there's just no room for it. But they're trying to implement atleast a little bit of it. That the rude youngsters from WoW are dominating the higher tiers of endgame and PvP just makes everyone anoyed and snappy. When we got frontlines, we wanted to go enjoy it, not be shouted at by someone "taking lead" and bossing people around trying to exploit tricks.

The real problem with PvP not being any fun isnt so much that the game isnt trying to make it fun. It's simply that with today's attitude that people have in the game, they're making it not fun. The players and the playerbase are at fault here, not the game mechanics. Although healers are rediculously overpowered in PvP yeah.

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agreed with you for the most part up until you say how healers are OP. They're not, Healers are the weakest job to play in pvp. First targeted first dead, anyone who says they need to be nerfed just wants even easier targets. Whm have way to long of a cast time with what one insta cast spell (regen) woopieeee. all "CC" is completely asinine. Lock a player up so they cant move let alone do anything else except die is not fun. said it in another post just make pvp damage skills and a few heals then let people bash each others brains in leave all the silence paralysis sleep BS out.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

Also, it sound to me that you are making same mistake as those who claims Marauder > Warrior in the Frontline?

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I know this is off topic, but why do you call that a mistake? Do you think that WAR > MRD in PvP? I had a huge conversation about comparing the Job and its Class in another thread, arguing as a proponent to WAR, but, after doing a bunch of the math and better understanding the mechanics of the class and its skills, I have determined that I was wrong and that MRD is superior in nearly every way. The only thing that WAR was shown to be better at was self-survivability. MRD seems to be a far better damage AND support class than the WAR job is, due to the cross-class skill selection, which makes it play the general role that tanks play in PvP better than even WAR does.

Given all that, I'm just curious as to what your reasons are for believing that WAR >= MRD.

Anyway, on topic: OP, I play a PLD in Frontlines and I love it. We actually do have a fair lot of damage, but it's found almost solely in our 4 off-GCD damage abilities (2 of which are PvP), Mercy Stroke (MRD), and Rage of Halone while pumped up with Fight or Flight. If I'm adamant on taking someone out, generally a healer, I'll try to hit them enough to remove any damage absorbs (such as Stoneskin), get them to around 80% health (most won't heal when at that amount), apply Fracture (MRD), and build up to where I can use Rage of Halone. Then, I'll pop Fight or Flight followed by Full Swing for the extra damage, use Rage of Halone, using Circle of Scorn and Spirits Within during the GCD wait, then using Shield Bash, using Full Swing during that GCD wait, then using two more back-to-back Shield Bashes. Generally, the enemy healer will drop low enough for a Mercy Stroke, and I can finish them off with a simple Fast Blade or, if they ran, 1-2 Shield Lobs.

While I do have STR accessories, I only have an ilvl 70 weapon, and this still works nearly every time.

Beyond my minimal, though existent capacity for dealing damage, I also chain CC amazingly. I can completely lock someone out of action while they're being focused for a full 7 seconds, 8 if they're a caster. Often times, all I have to do to ensure a kill on a healer is spam stuns on it the moment 1-2 other people are on him. And, of course, I minimize incoming damage to my team by CCing the enemy players who seem to be dishing the most damage.

I also love using Cover. Cover can be a real game changer. I have saved innumerable healers with Cover and Testudo (not at the same time, except in extreme cases since Cover doesn't stop magic damage). And, of course, I've managed to save healers by using Stone Skin on them and letting them get off a last-second heal while it held.

There are a lot of reasons to love my PLD in PvP. I enjoy it. I don't think the low damage is really holding me back from enjoying myself overly much.

PvP in this game would be a lot more fun if there were gear disparities so we could dominate undergeared players. That is the only way I can see it being fun, because the gameplay in this game is very stale. I play this game because I love final fantasy, gameplay is crap.

I enjoy frontlines but this game needs way more PvP. More pvp modes. 8v8v8 would be fun too. some other maps, a decent PvP gear that you can buy and more than 1 set so you can customize your character better. But before that yes.. matchmaking needs to be fixed, queue times sometimes, something done with healing and everything else. right now the way it is, everything is just thrown in PvP as it is in PvE with very minor adjustments(like SMN not not being able to ressurect). and PvE is very different and way more predictable than PvP

If you wanna dps as a Paly, don't go in as a Paly. Go in as a Gladiator.

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Originally Posted by Danbo05

If you wanna dps as a Paly, don't go in as a Paly. Go in as a Gladiator.

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also dont go in there with your raid gear that have ton of acc and parry, especialy on tanks gear difference is realy big almost 200 points of secondary stats.
here is easily obtainable quick list of what you should get.

wep: Break Blade - primal focus quest reward
shield: wave shield - leviathan
Head: Noct circlet - soldiery stones
Chest: Cuirass of the Divine War - stone vigil/hullbreaker last boss or Wolfram chest - craft
Hands: Wolfram gauntlets - craft
belt: tassets of the divine war - stone vigil/tam tara second boss
legs: Wolfram cuisses - craft
feet: sabatons of the divine war - stone vigil/hullbreaker first boss

for accessory you get one gloam ring which gives you all acc you need combined with belt and for the rest just anything that dont give acc and you are done

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Originally Posted by Shairine

2/2

And thats just a guess but I dont think PvP is balanced. I dont think a Paladin could ever kill a Healer.

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I kill whm's solo like childs plays on Paladin (scholar is a different story). You just gotta learn the dynamics of the system and how to burst/when to burst.

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The real reason people aren't having fun is because they are going alone.

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No. It's because they have no idea what they are doing.

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Originally Posted by Vandril

Shorten

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I have read your ideas about WAR vs MRD in regard to potency, but it is just a dps output calculation on scripted target, but PvP is not about how much DPS you can output. We can put aside the following facts about Warrior under Defiance:

- 25% HP and recovered via curing magic is increased 20% made Warriors like walking fortress when fighting over a node.
- the destruction of Steel Cyclone and Mythril Tempest within flag's capture area.
- the fact that how Malestorm have been destroying Twin Adders at Manors with Warriors + Healers combo.

(To be continue next post...)

We cant ingore the fact that Warrior under Defiance will also:

- have both Unchained and Inner Beasts nullifies the damage penalty inflicted by Defiance
- 25% HP for Warrior is very dominant against Dragoons and Monks

Maruaders are just gaimped meeles that is useless in battle over the node, unable to turn the tide with LB like meeles, and it is pretty useless when trying to rouge play the outposts.