Protect/Shell Duration Increase

I agree with you there! That would make playing a bit more easier and you wont have to rebuff so many times.

Personally i don't see how the buffs duration is their weak point right now..
Then again im used to playing (most) mmos (out there), where you run around with a full set of buffs lasting (if your lucky) 7 minutes.

5-7 Minutes is actually a pretty long time for a buff you know.
Anything more then that quickly starts to move into the ''to long to bother looking if the icon is even there'' area.

If 5-7 minute buffs bother you so much, why not rather complain about debuffs..?
Although people forget about those often since they don't give a shiny icon next to your own status, they're actually as effective (often a lot more) as for example protect/shell.

But, if you have your mind set about complaining about those 2 buffs,
try complaining about their actual weak point, which isnt the duration, but the recast time.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Personally i don't see how the buffs duration is their weak point right now..
Then again im used to playing (most) mmos (out there), where you run around with a full set of buffs lasting (if your lucky) 7 minutes.

5-7 Minutes is actually a pretty long time for a buff you know.
Anything more then that quickly starts to move into the ''to long to bother looking if the icon is even there'' area.

If 5-7 minute buffs bother you so much, why not rather complain about debuffs..?
Although people forget about those often since they don't give a shiny icon next to your own status, they're actually as effective (often a lot more) as for example protect/shell.

But, if you have your mind set about complaining about those 2 buffs,
try complaining about their actual weak point, which isnt the duration, but the recast time.

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5-7 minutes for such a minor buff falls more into the 'no one in the group bothers to keep it up'

I'm in an Ixali grind right now and its been 2 hours since we last cast these two spells.

Yeah a bit longer duration on these spells would be nice:) 20-30mins would be perfect imo.

Maybe I just do things a little slower and more carefully than most. But the day I learned Protect my life got a lot easier as a caster. Solo, it's mandatory. I can't take hits! In a party with my friend I try to keep Shock Spikes and Protect on her constantly, it's my way of contributing and trying to prevent slowdown or a situation where I have to heal. Because healing just destroys MP.

An increased duration might be nice, but I also think that it's fine as is. I think a great idea would be for an animation to show on the spell fading. Like a shattering version of the normal effect you see when you gain Protect. This could apply to all status spells, since the icons are kinda small and there's no noticeable message when they're gone.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

No it's not a "horrible" way to look at things.

I mean it's almost the same thing as in other games. The stronger the attack (or job) the slower the class usually is. It's a trade off. They trade off duration for potency and vice versa. Makes perfect sense.

I think they should make the first protect and shell last a bit longer and the second teir protect/shell spells you get should be short like they are now but more potent.

Their logic isn't flawed, and it is supposed to be a nuisance. What will you do? Risk the enmity to cast an AoE buff or sit their and keep healing? The game is finally challenging and here we go with "ZOMG I'M TIRED OF CASTING PROTECT/SHELL"...

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No, it actually is a horrible way to look at things. You cannot make short duration the trade-off for potency. People will simply keep re-casting it and remain annoyed because they feel they have to do it. If you really want to limit a strong buff, you put a cooldown on it (think Punishing Barbs) so that it actually cannot be used at all times.

Protect and Shell definitely could use a duration of 30 minutes or even 1 hour. There is nothing skillful about babysitting short buffs that don't drastically alter the outcome of a battle. It's merely incredibly annoying and I find it incredible that you're fine with something being a nuisance by design. We wouldn't want to have fun while playing a game, now would we? That would be just awful!

I agree that Protect and shell should have a longer timer but I also think that spells like Stoneskin, shock spikes, protect, shell, etc should have their effectiveness and lenght improved with the caster's PIE (piety). So the higher the PIE of the caster, the longer the buff last and is more effective (stoneskin absorbs more dmg, protect gives more defense, etc).

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

I agree that Protect and shell should have a longer timer but I also think that spells like Stoneskin, shock spikes, protect, shell, etc should have their effectiveness and lenght improved with the caster's PIE (piety). So the higher the PIE of the caster, the longer the buff last and is more effective (stoneskin absorbs more dmg, protect gives more defense, etc).

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Stoneskin's buff is already based off of Mind, it blocks the same amount of damage as you heal with Cure II (Stoneskin II). Why would they change it to Piety? Piety only has to do with accuracy and dot damage.

I didn't even notice that my thread got a dev response. lol

With that being said, I still think that Protect/Shell need a duration buff. Right now their effects seem to barely make a difference anyway. Or if they're going to stay the way they are, make the AOE for both THM and CON circular AOE and fairly massive.

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Originally Posted by Aramyth

I didn't even notice that my thread got a dev response. lol

With that being said, I still think that Protect/Shell need a duration buff. Right now their effects seem to barely make a difference anyway. Or if they're going to stay the way they are, make the AOE for both THM and CON circular AOE and fairly massive.

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I think it'd be a huge misconception to think that they actually do nothing. No, the effects are very noticeable and you'll definitely want the buffs on whenever possible. However, it's not like you'll want to use them reactively in specific situations because the impact just isn't big enough and you actually don't have to as it's quite possible to keep them running indefinitely. You can't, for instance, try to save someone on the brink of death by buffing their defenses. This leads to Protect and Shell being benefits you expect a CON to provide at all times and they are quite capable of delivering. It's merely annoying to have to re-cast them all the time.

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Originally Posted by Frein

Protect and Shell definitely could use a duration of 30 minutes or even 1 hour. There is nothing skillful about babysitting short buffs that don't drastically alter the outcome of a battle. It's merely incredibly annoying and I find it incredible that you're fine with something being a nuisance by design. We wouldn't want to have fun while playing a game, now would we? That would be just awful!

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The problem with increasing duration of Pro/Shell is that they become gimmick spells. If you have them last 60 minutes, what is really the point? You could just lower the Att/M.Att of mobs and get the same result.

It 'worked' in FFXI because you needed a WHM to get Pro/Shell 5. Here, anyone can cast Pro/Shell if they really want. There will pretty much never be a situation where you don't have Pro/Shell due to the class system. So then whats the point in having them if they're on 24/7?

Is it also annoying to constantly re-apply poison/bio/dia/etc? Pro/Shell act like any other skill you have to re-apply every 30sec-3minutes. You can't single out these spells when nearly every other skill/ability acts the same way.

They definitely need to increase the potency of Pro/Shell, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

Stoneskin's buff is already based off of Mind, it blocks the same amount of damage as you heal with Cure II (Stoneskin II). Why would they change it to Piety? Piety only has to do with accuracy and dot damage.

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Are you sure they are based off MND? I thought mind only affected your MP pool and not the healing potency (unlike FFXI) and that only INT affected your magic potency (cures and nukes alike).

Also I said PIE off my head like that, my suggestion could work with MND or INT or PIE w/e they decide to do with the stats when they are done with the overhaul. Stoneskin might already be affected by a stat since it has the cure potency but my exemple was more for protect and shell as the thread suggested and I threw stoneskin and shock spike and etc in there since they should all be affected the same way.

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Originally Posted by Rexus

The problem with increasing duration of Pro/Shell is that they become gimmick spells. If you have them last 60 minutes, what is really the point? You could just lower the Att/M.Att of mobs and get the same result.

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This is a valid point but it is simple to solve by making it CON/WHM only or by making it less potent for off-classes.

Blah BLAH BLAH.

You people basically want the game being played for you right now.

If it has higher potency, basically it should cost A LOT more and cause lot's of enmity midbattle. The weaker one doing the opposite.

But like I said, you like the game being played for you. A 30 minutes buff. Might as well be a selfbuff like Defender that you turn on and off..... SMH

Glad SE doesn't listen to everything that's said on the forums.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Blah BLAH BLAH.

You people basically want the game being played for you right now.

If it has higher potency, basically it should cost A LOT more and cause lot's of enmity midbattle. The weaker one doing the opposite.

But like I said, you like the game being played for you. A 30 minutes buff. Might as well be a selfbuff like Defender that you turn on and off..... SMH

Glad SE doesn't listen to everything that's said on the forums.

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I guess you also love crafting because repeatedly using Standard Synthesis for hours is so much fun and "doing it yourself".

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Originally Posted by Frein

I guess you also love crafting because repeatedly using Standard Synthesis for hours is so much fun and "doing it yourself".

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*Read the signature*

I will agree that craft is tedious. But casting a spell? A strong spell midbattle? Having to decide in that important battle if it's worth the enmity and strong defense/mgdefense to cast it while also maybe dying for it? It's called a trade off for a reason.

That's why I also don't like auto block. It should be Your shield is raised, you have higher defense and lower attack/acc. Your shield is down, you have lower defense but high attack/acc.

It's called a trade off. A 30 minutes buff that uses mp? That just doesn't really seem logical IMO.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

*Read the signature*

I will agree that craft is tedious. But casting a spell? A strong spell midbattle? Having to decide in that important battle if it's worth the enmity and strong defense/mgdefense to cast it while also maybe dying for it? It's called a trade off for a reason.

That's why I also don't like auto block. It should be Your shield is raised, you have higher defense and lower attack/acc. Your shield is down, you have lower defense but high attack/acc.

It's called a trade off. A 30 minutes buff that uses mp? That just doesn't really seem logical IMO.

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You would have a point if:

a) Pro/Shell were "strong spells".

and

b) Pro/Shell had a longer cooldown than duration, forcing you to pick key moments to use them in.

Neither is true, so people simply cast it every four mins or so and it pisses them off.

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Originally Posted by Frein

You would have a point if:

a) Pro/Shell were "strong spells".

and

b) Pro/Shell had a longer cooldown than duration, forcing you to pick key moments to use them in.

Neither is true, so people simply cast it every four mins or so and it pisses them off.

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Do you not read what they post? They have plans in the future is what they meant by stronger buffs.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Do you not read what they post? They have plans in the future is what they meant by stronger buffs.

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It doesn't matter. They're still not reactive spells, so people will spam keep them up at all times and continue to be pissed if the duration is short.

Right now when people don't refresh Pro/Shell, it's not because they have no MP or time, it's because they can't be bothered to. That's a clear as day sign of bad design right there.

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Originally Posted by Frein

It doesn't matter. They're still not reactive spells, so people will spam keep them up at all times and continue to be pissed if the duration is short.

Right now when people don't refresh Pro/Shell, it's not because they have no MP or time, it's because they can't be bothered to. That's a clear as day sign of bad design right there.

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Which is why they will most likely be changing things. You do realize we can only go up to r50? There are some tiers of spells that aren't released yet because we aren't high enough in level. Just wait. They have to balance out class uniqueness and that good stuff soon.