Limit the amount of healers in a party in frontlines

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Originally Posted by Sen_Terrechant

So you want to nerf healers in PvP, because people cant coordinate? .

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Who said anything about nerf healer? They are discussing about how to prevent over stake do the healers.

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Originally Posted by Sen_Terrechant

So you want to nerf healers in PvP, because people cant coordinate? You do understand how asinine that sounds right? PvP should never ever be balanced around the lowest tier of play- no game should ever be balanced on the lower tier of play. Im sorry that people cant pull off basic coordination but dont punish the rest of us because you cant do that.

Healers are not overpowered, the ignorant masses are. If you cant pull out the coordination to focus a healer you arent winning the match anyways.

This sheep attitude wrecks games where the Devs are stupid enough to listen to people ranting and raving about balance they know nothing about. I sure hope SE does not do that here.

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I’ve already stated that it isn’t a matter of focus, it’s simply how easy they can get their spells off, healers enjoy not being punished very hard for being CC’d, and well if you sleep them another healer will wake the victim healer (that coordination argument ya? The healers won’t be standing together usually after medica goes off.) and lets not forget that other dps (coordinated dps!) can purify their healer out of cc cause of the purify change, fact of the matter is, you cant cc lock jack due to 1. Esuna’s insane casting time and recast time, and 2 everyone that’s not a healer has a targetable purify.

I’ve played over 100 games in frontlines now, have more first places than second or third places, and can honestly say with pretty good confidence that a pt with 3-4 healers will win their fights. Sprinting along with pillar play (or moving) guarantees that adlo or cure will go off before anyone can interrupt it Healers have a laughably low casting time for any of their spells.

Your argument of pandering to the LCD is pretty much invalid, there is no competitive play for this game mode, it would be nice if one were to develop. But for some reason everyone who argues this get good stance always assumes the dps suck and the healers are simply good, which is bull. The LCD argument would work even better if pre made games actually existed, however, they do not.
Everytime I get 3 healers in my pt the game is remarkably easier, and no I’m not arguing for healers to be 1v1 by a dps, that wouldn’t be balanced at all, I’m arguing against healers super human ability to tank in pvp (better than tanks)… and speaking of tanks.. a coordinated tank healers become even better when a pld actually knows what cover does… its quite scary.

To strike a balance between the delicate workings of PvP takes months of analysis, trial, error, and testing. To be able to function with even an ounce of coordination takes effort, understanding, and most importantly, time! Time that Frontlines just doesn't afford us. Higher standards of PvP play comes from very few things, among them are premade groups, and rarely a lucky batch of decent adventurers who are quick enough to adapt to learn or already have experience under their belt.

That being said, it is no surprise that certain aspects of certain classes have been blown out of proportion - there simply wasn't enough PvP of this scale going around until now. AoE healing of such high potency seriously disrupts the flow of this 'capture the flag' type of game because it immensely increases the durability of a team with higher numbers of healers. Cleric Stance added, Healers are versatile to the point that they are imbalanced.

There a lot of debate on if healer are a problem or not. But what would people actually liked to see changed specifically to help balanced out frontlines ? If Healers is such a problem how would you see it fixed (outside of initial suggestion by OP) ?

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Originally Posted by Xisin

Title says it all, its ridiculous, how hard it can be to remove 3, let alone 4 healers from sitting on base, short of mage lb 2 (which healers are good at dodging if they are on the same page thanks to esuna) it can prove pretty hard to remove them. with 3 back to back to back 4 digit criticals.
We had the base but never could we kill the healers, they eventually took it back.

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Sleep them> they use purify>sleep them again>mark one> Stun it >BURN> and repeat
once they res eachother they will have the weakness and they are easy to kill.There are also some skills that removes beneficial status.

i already had this problem having 4 healers in enemy group but they coudnt actually kill anyone in my group due to the lack of DPs, 4 healers is not a good setup, i wouldnt recommend more than 3.

Something tells me you havent read the thread.

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Originally Posted by Xisin

Something tells me you havent read the thread.

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yes i have read all ur QQ.

I have fought groups of more than 4 healers and still won the fights, all depends of ur level of skill and coordination, if u lose against 2,3,4 or more healers is because the other group plays better than your group and nothing else, if a team have alot of healers they will be hard to kill but their dps gonna be shit and wont be able to win a fight against a decent group.

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Originally Posted by Xisin

You obviously can't read. Healers by themselves are not overpowered. It is a certain composition, which I've listed and have listed the tactical drawbacks and advantages of each. This being a pvp type of event, a metagame will eventually start to take form, and with how this is trending this is certaintly going to be it. Usually in any serious pvp game such a league, dota, or any fighting game, once a meta becomes cemented its usually the developer that ends up breaking it - not the player. You can protect your power as much as you want though.For the record I win far, far more than I lose. You're only argument is herp derp get gud, I havent even seen you cite a proper case.

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apparently, you can't read my argument about your asinine post. nonetheless I didn't read this one just a forewarning because I could careless in any response that you had just made.

Cheers

if all you can do is make personal attacks instead of a valid argument then you've got no point and should stop posting. This is a common strategy to use when an argument has no depth. So ya, cheers.

lol at anyone taking frontlines seriously

gimme my tomes

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Originally Posted by Pomp

lol at anyone taking frontlines seriously

gimme my tomes

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Lol at people thinking fighting scripted battles is hard.

Keep to your zerg hunts.

my opinion will be quite unpopular, but i saw several games applying healing debuffs in PvP and it works just fine. lets say a constant 20-30% healing debuff in frontlines would a little bit even the amount healed and damage. Healing still shouldnt be compared on paper to damage dealt, because its a bit different. there also could be done something with stacking aoe heals

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Originally Posted by Xisin

if all you can do is make personal attacks instead of a valid argument then you've got no point and should stop posting. This is a common strategy to use when an argument has no depth. So ya, cheers.

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If you keep arguing with me about the validity of my comment and referring to such as a personal attack on the basis of it's grounds; why do you keep responding to my posts; buckle up my little lallafel friend :) when you post on a thread you should prepare for the worst.

Much Love :D

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Xisin

if all you can do is make personal attacks instead of a valid argument then you've got no point and should stop posting. This is a common strategy to use when an argument has no depth. So ya, cheers.

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I dont know what part of my coment u didnt understand but w.e.
If u think 4 healers are OP find 7 friends healers and go frontline and u still will get wreck by a decent group.

lol at people who think battlefields are anything but a zerg fest

post ur 4v4 stats, oh wait pvp in this game sucks and nobody sane plays it for anything other than a more bearable way to grind soldiery

Yeah its one of the most balanced pvp out there and it absolutely suck :[

Limiting any class in frontlines will just make it the same game over and over again. Adjust to the team you're facing, get alliance B to help when drones are on cool down. Communication is KEY in this game.

Why would they limit the Healers class in one party?
You have the authority to which class you would want to use during the fight to help others to win the battle.
If you encounter 3 r 4 WHM then attack one at a time r if you encounter SCH. Kill EOS/Fairies first to make them powerless. I don't find any reason why they need to limit a healer class for frontline.
Frontline is a group event that you need to help one another to work as one and win as one!

Playing WHM in frontlines sucks...working on leveling another job that will be more fun. they are not OP. heals are the first targeted and always the first to die. too many spells with too long of a cast time. idc if you limit them but they need c/d's reduced and some made insta. being stun locked at the front of the line or at the back of the line and not getting a single spell off sucks. I actually wish they would remove all the stupid BS crowd control spells and skills, just leave in damage and healing then let everyone just beat each other to death til one team wins.

I can't really get any of my heals to cast because I keep getting interrupted, but I survive since there's 2 other healers that aren't being focused.

It's all about knowing the classes and if having more healers works then get that on your team. FL allows you to change classes so if your team can't then switch with another alliance.

FL gives a whole new line of challenges since Wolves den was a flop.

The more healers on the enemy team, the more focused your fire need to be. That's all. 4-6 DDs can melt any number of healers, if they all hit the same one. Also, suddenly switch target together for more efficient melting. Stacking a bunch of miasma(s) will guarantee a healer death.

I have still yet to see 8 healers. Two good healer are enough if its 8 on 8. The real key is the dps anyways. Four good dps will help win any battle. The other guys just seem to drop like flies. Healers only have 2 instant raises.

A whm and sch with the sch watching the whm seems to work best. Whm has big heals and sch has the little buff that helps them get more spells off.

If you want to limit the amount of any job, you're going down a slippery slope. I was the only SCH in a party of 7 BRDs this morning and we absolutely annihilated anything in our path.

As somebody who goes SCH every time, the secret to killing Healers is to keep interrupting them. Once I've blown my cool downs there is nothing I can do to stop myself getting interrupted every second with people beating on me. All you need to do is get 1-2 DPS per Healer, once their buffs have gone they'll be so focused keeping themselves alive that they won't be spamming AoE anymore. It's difficult but doable. When lots of people are smashing me my priority is keeping myself alive, not everyone else. ;)

And just to add more food for thought to the debate,

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Originally Posted by Stormrider

I have still yet to see 8 healers.

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I did have an 8 Healer party once and it was terrible. Yes, we didn't die, but neither did the enemy. It was a battle of attrition which we won, eventually, simply through better survivability. We simply did not have the Firepower needed to take down the opposition, we just outlived them until they got bored of trying and left.

The rest of that match was very boring, because they never came back. They did what you should do when a flag seems beyond your reach and went for another one. That can make quite a big difference to the outcome of a match. Imagine party C's surprise when party A and C from the Flames are hitting a Maelstrom Flag. Grossly outnumbering those opposition will lead to a captured flag in place of the one being guarded by healers. It's not uncommon, if one party has lots of healers and stubbornly camps the flag, for that to be the only flag constantly controlled. Everyone who would otherwise have been attacking that flag have sensibly given up on doing so and dispersed to help their alliance members overcome the other flags.

You have the same tools that every other team has.

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Originally Posted by Tralaix

You have the same tools that every other team has.

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That's not really true is it? What if your team has no Healers? Have you even read this thread or did you just post based on the title? :confused: