Physick vs Adloquium

Yes sorry if you are applying stoneskin mid fight on a large pull, thats wrong.

Shadow flare 5% slow, really isnt that helpful.

SCHs need to Adloand physick while weaving lustrates as needed. You also need to micro manage your fairy from the start of the pull, otherwise she wont heal until tank falls below the threshold.

Physick, Physick, Adlo, repeat that should take care of most pulls, just remember Adlo is really the sch version of Cure 2.

I've always spammed Physick and throw an adloqium or lustrate when I can or needed. Just spamming Adloqium could get the job done but I don't like doing that :<

If you were in Hullbreaker Isle, you can't do too big of pulls anyways. Too many bees, too many big damage hits.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

They don't have less defense though. At all. Do we need to do math?

Arbitrary numbers
Physick: 1000 (1200 to warrior)
Damage taken: 500/hit
Paladin: 7000 HP
Warrior: 7000 HP * 1.25 = 8750

Paladin takes damage from 6 enemies.
7000 - (500 * 0.8) *6 = 7000 - 2400 = 4600/7000 HP remaining (65.7%)

Warrior takes damage from 6 enemies.
8750 - 500*6 = 5750/8750 HP remaining (65.7%)

Physick gives 14% max HP back to the paladin, 14% max HP back to the Warrior.

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Your point is solid, and I totally agree with you that PLD and WAR eHP are the same. However, there is one small difference between Defiance and Shield Oath: the healing. If Defiance gave a +25% healing boost instead of a +20% healing boost, then all of the numbers would be identical like you said, but it doesn't. It's small enough that it isn't really worth considering, but it's there.

The healing on the PLD in your example was 1000/7000 = 14.2857% of max HP
The healing on the WAR in your example was 1200/8750 = 13.7143% of max HP

This means it is slightly easier to heal up a PLD than it is to heal up a WAR. Again, it's a very small difference. If you heal for 1000 with Physick and the PLD was down to 1 HP, you'd need 7 Physicks to heal him to full. If the WAR was down to 1 HP, 7 Physicks would only get her to 8401/8750.

Of course, this is only comparing two skills. When you consider all skills, WAR and PLD are extremely similar and have the same survivability.

Maybe that explains why I feel like I need more heals / why my heals seem to be a little less efficient on most of the WAR I take care. But they still seem to be more than 0,6% less effective (0,6% comes from the difference 14,2857% - 13,7143%).

However, I can confirm that healing a very good WAR makes ZERO differences compared to a very good PLD, certainly thanks to Inner Beast as someone told, that you can pop very often in addition to any others long CD.

Brushing aside the tank comments, here's how I do it:

Assuming the tank knows what they're doing and assuming that the dps knows what they are doing the fairy of choice will be selene on auto.

My actions are as follows:

While the big pull is happening I will swift cast stoneskin/adlo and eye for an eye on the tank.

Once the tank is stationary/ running in circles etc, I will daisy chain adlo and lustrate onto the tank while the fairy will be roused. Only if my adlo crits will I cast physick (or stoneskin if the tank is at max hp). Given this method I should be able to keep up the tank for about a minute which should be more than enough time for the dps to burn everything down.

If the dps check is not being met, however, and/or the tank is undergeared you should be doing smaller pulls as suggested by the previous post.

Those birds in HI hit like a truck :/
It one hit KO'd PLD with 60% hp.

tbh if its a dungeon i just spam adlo 90% of the time because the extra mp cost doesn't matter when you will end up refreshing it before you hit the next pack.

For big speedrun pulls, spamming Adloquium works well, yes. Occasionally I'll throw in a Lustrate to bring the tank's HP up to a safe value, but Adloquium spam is doing more effective healing per 2.5 seconds than Physick spam. Even though the heal on Adloquium is smaller, it doesn't matter because monsters have to break through that shield you're applying every 2.5 seconds before they start chipping away at the HP you just restored. The combined shield + heal is greater than the health restored by Physick, so Adlo's effective health restored is higher.

Consider that with 6 mobs beating on the tank, the amount of incoming damage (and this is a totally arbitrary number just used as an example) is 1500 points per 2.5 seconds. Physick will restore about 1000 HP every 2.5 seconds. Adloquium will restore 750 HP and apply a 750 HP absorb every 2.5 seconds. The mobs have to beat through that shield to get to your tank's creamy nougat center, so it's effectively the same as restoring HP, it just doesn't fill up the bar as much. That means that with Physick spam, the tank will experience a net loss of 500 HP per 2.5 seconds, causing you to fall behind on healing and need to blow Lustrate/fairy cooldowns, but with Adlo spam the tank will experience no net gain or loss to his HP every 2.5 seconds. Additionally, if Physick crits it will restore 1500 HP (1000 * 1.5), but if Adlo crits it will restore 1125 HP (750 * 1.5) AND apply a 2250 shield (because the shield is double whatever the heal was after a crit). That is a huge increase on a crit compared to Physick, and it will really help stabilize the tank's HP if you're falling behind a little bit. And since most scholars build for crit, you should probably be hitting those one in every five heals or so, which is really good.

Stoneskin, even if it is a bigger absorb (which on a Scholar, it probably isn't unless your tank has a shitload of HP and your gear is poor), is MUCH less effective healing than Adloquium because it has a longer cast time, no heal attached, and no possibility of critting. There is no reason whatsoever to use it in a situation where incoming damage is very high on a Scholar because Adloquium is always a better option. Use Stoneskin preemptively and stack it with Adloquium for situations when you know big damage is coming soon, but the damage at that very moment is low. The main benefit of Stoneskin on a SCH is that it lasts a long time (30 minutes) so it can be used to basically increase someone's maximum HP in preparation for big damage, and that it stacks with Adloquium. For high-damage periods, both of these benefits are totally invalidated because it's going to be broken immediately. It is outshined in every possible way by Adloquium in these situations.

So yes, the tank was correct in that there was a more optimal way of doing things. That doesn't mean he's not a douche, though.

Physick is only really necessary for protracted, MP-intensive fights or for when your gear level is too low to sustain too many Adlos.

In your average dungeon, periodic Adlos with the occasional Lustrate usually let you DPS with relative impunity.

If people other than the tank are taking damage because of mistakes, Physick (or just Embrace) is fine for patching them up.

If there is a mechanic that causes unavoidable damage on party members, Succor or Adlo are good to precast and to heal with.

If the tank is taking massive damage over a sustained period, weaving in Physick as you can is good to keep your MP from eventually running out.

We have pulled up to where you see the monkey in HB. All i do is cure and adlo. I use cure to be diff wateves. Anyways SS imo is a waste of time unless youre just starting fight or u are between mobs and should never be cast in active battle. But im not sure wat the tank said to you but i woulda just kept doin what you were doing just to mess w him. Wats really funny is when I stay in CS almost the whole dungeon and tanks get all nervous while I am going HAM on mobs and we just burning through them like crazy. I actually dnt even heal in a healer stance unless the tank actually pulls something worthy. I dnt run out of MP and i keep every 1 above 80%. But I do have to use the occasional LUSTRATE. Lustrate is your friend. But no, SS at beginning of everything so insecure players feel like it made a huge difference to their crap play style that will inevitably lead them to their deaths and will surely blame on you, and just heal your own way. Hope that helps some. Thx for reading.

When I ran hullbreaker the tank had a tendency of doing big pulls and his health kept dipping really fast. spamming adlo is not what you do though, I tend to use adlo as an opener to my healing to make sure the tanks health doesn't fluctuate too much and then use physick (which I have macro'd to double up with embrace though I also do that with adlo) if his health still dips fast afterwards but another adlo on him and you should be able to "feel" when its right to use lustrate, I have taken note though that these new dungeons have me using lustrate a lot more during big pulls I do find the tank pulling half the map without warning me sometimes leads to "almost" wipes but I have been able to make do.

So long story short how I play scholar is - open with adlo then bring up the rest of the health with physick and use adlo when the tanks health still dips too fast.
Also if a tank whines about how I use my skills I invite them to continue the dungeon without any of my heals.

I tend to open with Adlo and have Eos/Selene top off the tank's HP with Embrace (which I have macro'd to Adlo). I will then use Physick for low/mid damage fights and start Adlo'ing again if anyone starts to take damage faster than normal, with lustrate thrown in if someone takes a big hit.

I almost never use physick anymore. At ilvl 90+ mana is literally a non issue (it was barely an issue before, but now it simply isn't even something I think about anymore), so I can drop adlo all day long and be just fine. If I need to drop big numbers, I can just drop a single lustrate rather than 2 physicks (depending on the health of the tank).

Only time I use physick is when I get stuffed in those awful awful pre level 30 dungeons where I become a regular arcanist again. But then I mostly just let Eos heal and spend all my time pew pewing

At high ilevels, mana shouldn't be a concern for speed runs, given that the DPS is high, and the tank is able to properly execute cooldowns. I am a big fan of using plenty of Adloquium and Lustrates, in conjunction with the obvious pet management, E4E, Virus, ShadowFlare, etc. By the time you actually drop low on mp, the mob should be dead, otherwise the DPS isn't high enough, in which case your group should pull fewer mobs.

I don't usually use physick much at all and usually not at all on big pulls. Adlo is a higher throughput per GCD as long as the shield is used up by the time the next one lands. That said for big pulls getting your mitigation up and fairy micro makes a huge difference in incoming damage. I typically cast Adlo when needed and if the incoming damage isn't enough to cast it again right away I'll do other things or dps. Physick seems like largely a waste in my arsenal since mana is generally not an issue at my gearing level for that content.

I actually tend to just rotate between a physick and an adlo if it's big pulls. if it's smaller pulls I know that Selene and I would be able to handle healing. However, if it's something big I'm going to be rotating adlo and physick because I don't want to risk my adlo's overlapping or something if there's a gap in the onslaught of attacks.

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Originally Posted by Ephany

He had over-pulled some mobs, Whispering Dawn was active and I had SS down, Eye for an eye, stoneskin and protect on him, and was spamming Psysick with the occasional Adloquium thrown in to stop damage for a sec whilst I reapplied stoneskin etc...
He still died, hence his bad attitude and lecture.

He says I should only have been spamming Adloquium when it's a big mob and not use Physick.

Thoughts?
All advice welcome :)

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Generally, do not reapply stoneskin mid-fight. With a few exceptions, it's not remotely worth it for a scholar. You can give them a bigger shield adlo. Even a non-crit adlo will be on par while also healing them HP, if not better (depending on how much HP the tank actually has max).

Personally, I mostly spam adlo with the occasional physick. Imo, it works better, since we don't have the Cure>Cure II pattern with Freecure that whm's have, and even then, whms often have to spam Cure II in such situations, and the amount of health healed+blocked from adlo is significantly higher than that of physick (even if not mana efficient when non-crit).

vittorino weighed in, end of thread guys. You can go home.