Wherefore art thou Circle of Scorn

This discussion.. it gave spiredman cancer it did.

Just to put it out there, i wont talk about number of potency, but i will talk about emnity bars. You know, those tiny white bars under names on party list, with some numbers to go left-down on the class icon?

yeah those. i mt garuda hard, just to try something out and ot was pali. i had a very good amount of emnity on target, pali had about 10-15% on the emnity bars with sword oath. both of us where ilvl 76-78 at the time.

SoS comes up, pali used it, emnity bar on pali jumped up at about 55-65%.

useless ability isnt it. and thats pali on sword oath

Theres also the fact that you can get two buffed scorns during one FoF.

Actually I play a Warrior.....I don't enjoy paladin as much. But way to assume...you know what they say about assuming right?

Edit: Why would you think I play paladin? It even says my main class is marauder....might want to start reading.

Seriously though looking at pld ability list and what you use day to day. Scorn is the last ability that should be buffed/changed.

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Originally Posted by Immut

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I can see your point and I'm quite of ashamed that other people can't understand what you are saying. It's here, written in the first post. This guy does not neglect the damage ability of Scorn or its superiority to other skills that are not out of GCD. He just says that it quite does not fit to the job as it is small potency DoT without any extra enmity potency multiplier. He wants to discuss how does it FIT to the job not how good / bad the skill is. It's really sad that most of you neglected him and insulted while not really reading his post.

Now back to the topic. Circle is a DoT with a very low potency that can be helpful for the job only at the very beginning of the battle, where you need instant hate. Instead of producing (for 100str,100det,100crit,30weapondmg Pal with shield Oath up): 265 enmity with flash you are able to add another 40 from CoS initial hit. This is a 15% increase in Hate at the very start of the battle. It's quite a lot. However, the skill starts to dims out when used after. However, its initial potency and long cooldown may be a clue for us that this skill was made to be used as enmity generator for the beginning of the fight. It can be used with the flash (as it's off GCD) and there is where it makes a difference. So yeah, it kind of fits to the Job that lacks strong openers for the fight. Its a lacklustre for the job.

Now considering the DoT thing - it has it reasons. If that skill was not a DoT but a one hitter with big potency it would make the AoE hate generation very easy, as too easy, lets not make this game straightforward. Also DoT helps with keeping enmity on creeps that we are currently not focusing on. It may be neglected by the WHM aggro, but it's quite significant when it comes to SCH aggro or dots. Remember that 30 potency with shield oath makes it 45 potency. And that is not bad at all as for AoE DoT.

All in all - this skill is in perfect state. If it would be buffed (either add enmity multiplier or make it one-big-hit) the game would be too easy. I get your point OP and I'm sorry most of the guys keep insulting you for not understanding you. Cheers.

I would actually love if it could have an enmity buff aswell :)

I love this skill. It's so pretty to look at and monsters hate it @.@

I hope we get some more "flashy" job related skills in the future like this one.

free off-GCD aoe dot with an awesome animation. whats not to love??

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Originally Posted by silvach

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Actually no, he definitely did neglect the damage ability of Scorn and all that. Once proven wrong, he then tried to act like he wasn't talking about its damage at all. And shift the discussion in a way that made him look like he was questioning the DoT, and then the AoE. And then the ability all together.

As for any of his arguments none of them are very good. A paladin with an AoE makes a lot of sense, think consecration in like every other RPG with a paladin. Oh and if you stand in it you take a DoT. hmm sound familiar?

"I'm not crazy, everyone else is!"

I love Circle of Scorn as an off-GCD ability. If they ever want to add further enmity bonuses to it, hey I'll happily take it. Otherwise, it's a solid addition to a PLD's arsenal.

Try pulling an enemy off of a PLD that has freshly-used CoS on a pulled mob. The DoT pulls hate off the initial Provoke, and even a few Tomahawks/Shield Lobs. For Twin we had the OT PLD run in first, grab the adds/Twin, and MT would Provoke pull Twintania off. If the PLD used CoS, the WAR (me) had a hell of a time getting hate off while running into position, because the tick after Provoke/Toma would still pull hate away. That's why guides recommend you don't use CoS when fighting Garuda EX when trading Plumes.

The amount of aggro this ability pulls in the beginning of the fight is quite nice. And it does take at least some thought, given the scenarios I listed above. It can make tank swapping difficult if done at the wrong time.

Looks like he is napping now. Maybeh he gave up, maybeh not.

One thing I am not seeing here is the "bonus" CoS has. The STR down effect during the DoT itself. THIS is why it is a DoT. It is not huge or game breaking but it is there. You will generate threat off the use of CoS, you will get little threat generated off the DoT tics. OVERALL you get the benefit of the mob hitting you with less STR which results in better mitigation, which is less DMG to you.

Forget the above, I was trippin and got it mixed up with RoH, as I use it right before CoS most times...lol.

In reference to what Clavaat said, best way I have learned to handle the split as OT is as soon as I see the water splash off that bastards back, I run into MT's position, soon as I do he starts running with his snake, as he does that I pop FoF (by this time split is spawning) and I chain pop flash and CoS. Then roll right into Halone combo.

I think that right there solidifies it as a threat generating tool, irregardless of the DPS it does...etc..etc.

Syn

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Originally Posted by Synestr

One thing I am not seeing here is the "bonus" CoS has. The STR down effect during the DoT itself. THIS is why it is a DoT.

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...what? Halone has STR down, not CoS.

^ yea, I sat here thinking about what I wrote and then was like....awwww sit!!!

Derp fixed.

Fact is it's free damage, you can fit 2 of them into your fight or flight duration, sure maybe we wouldn't miss it if it was gone, but that doesn't mean there's no reason to use it.

I only skimmed most of the thread, but I didn't see anyone mention it.

More Jobs will be added to the game as time goes on. Arcanist having two jobs is live proof that classes will not necessarily be restricted to having one job. It is not altogether hard to imagine, in any way, that GLD may eventually be part of a new DPS Job's cross-class skill set, and that Circle of Scorn may very well be one of the applicable cross-class skills.

For instance, I recall that Dark Knight was a confirmed "we intend to add this to the game" Job pretty much since release of ARR. What are the chances that it will be based around Gladiator class? Very, very high. And what ability is more aptly named for a Dark Knight than Circle of Scorn?

Aside from that, Circle of Scorn STILL fits into the concept of good class skill design, even for PLD, despite its seeming uselessness: it is used to add complexity to the rotation outside of GCDs. The entire purpose for off-GCD abilities is to do exactly that. Could it be better, by it doing something more noticeably (that's the keyword, since the enmity generation from it does exist and is free, so it still accomplishes something, albeit largely unnoticed) tank-like when used by a PLD? Sure. Does the fact that it doesn't make it bad game design? Not at all, it just makes it simple.

Try telling that to Paladins in CT who can't seem to figure out how to pull IG.