FFXIV: Cheat 2 Win - The New Norm?

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

Using brash or completely untrue generalizations to bring about my points, I can easily identify what I disagree with, but offer zero solutions to my perceived problems.

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Fixed for you.

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Originally Posted by Pooky_Pasha

You do realize that there is a Bluegartr (Gilgamesh) and a Bluegarter (Excalibur-world first guys). The BG forums you are talking about are affiliated with Bluegartr (Gilgamesh). If the thread you are referencing is the one I'm thinking about, it was started by someone from Sargatanas who just happens to be the same person that said they were using the radar add-on for FFXIV-App (so not in any way affiliated with either BG group except for being a member of a forum community).

So which BG group do you want to ban? Please have some clue as to what you art talking about before calling out a person or a group of people.

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If you go to the BG website, the world first people, and look through their forums, they encourage the use of third party tools like parsers. It is against TOS to use any third party tools, so yeah, they have posted on their forums that they encourage their players to break TOS.

Well i have seen some people have spent over 3000 seals, so sands is really easy to get if you do it ... "that way" .

Cuz ppl can't accept the fact when SE says no it means no.
They like to bargain with trivial things like omg parsers won't hurt anyone and we should be allowed to use it if no 1 gets hurt.
SE made an alternative and is planning to use percentages etc. but ppl r like nope.

If SE deems it wrong and does not support it, ppl will continue to do it as they make themselves think if it doesn't hurt anyone then its okay.
It's SE's game ffs... Their rules and commands should be absolute regardless if you paid to play their game. Remember it's their game not yours.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Only if SE wanted to they can quite easily - They can easily throw in dummy NPCs that you can only see if you're using said app. They did it for FFXI so I don't see why not.

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If you want to "catch" people, just rename your chocobo to a hunt in that zone and hide behind some rocks in an obscure spot. If people directly run to you then stop all confused then you know lol.

they have said in the past about 3rd party apps, if they don't know about it, then they wont bother you. Im sure yoshi-p uses some quality of life 3rd party apps. And some quality of life apps are nice especially information ones. but thats as far as defending 3rd party apps ill go.

It does suck when people set up a bot and farm and its takes lots of fun out of a game. especially with RMT tells every 5 secs.(less now with patch 2.3 but its still there). now with only a hand full of hunts. bots are gonna spam this too, making it less fun. making it a broken game. With a big game like this we shouldnt be surprised to see some people cheating the system for their own personal gain.

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

If you want to "catch" people, just rename your chocobo to a hunt in that zone and hide behind some rocks in an obscure spot. If people directly run to you then stop all confused then you know lol.

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For real? Lol gotta try that

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

If you want to "catch" people, just rename your chocobo to a hunt in that zone and hide behind some rocks in an obscure spot. If people directly run to you then stop all confused then you know lol.

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remember to either record them or screenshot them so you can report them. sooner these people are found out the sooner they can be purged.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

For real? Lol gotta try that

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Yup. My assumption is that the app literally just works by looking for entities - players, monsters, etc. - bearing a certain name. It doesn't, however, discriminate between what that entity is - so a Chocobo named Naul pops an alert at location x, y just the same as actual Naul would.

I know someone on Adamantoise who has taken to doing this to screw with people for shits and giggles, and apparently an FC on another server are considering basically doing a mass trolling by making Naul pop in like twenty different places in Coerthas on and off repeatedly

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

Yup. My assumption is that the app literally just works by looking for entities - players, monsters, etc. - bearing a certain name. It doesn't, however, discriminate between what that entity is - so a Chocobo named Naul pops an alert at location x, y just the same as actual Naul would.

I know someone on Adamantoise who has taken to doing this to screw with people for shits and giggles, and apparently an FC on another server are considering basically doing a mass trolling by making Naul pop in like twenty different places in Coerthas on and off repeatedly

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In one of the treads that got locked earlier, someone had screenshots of the app, but he claimed he only has it and doesn't use it, and it had to where you could filter between enemies and npcs and what not. I'd put up a link, but he edited his post and deleted took out the picture because he was tired of people calling him a cheater.

The REAL problem is the PC community. None of this "cheating" would even be possible on the PS4. So maybe SE should think about that next time they decide to develop a game for a questionable community anyway.

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Originally Posted by scarletfoxxy

The REAL problem is the PC community. None of this "cheating" would even be possible on the PS4. So maybe SE should think about that next time they decide to develop a game for a questionable community anyway.

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rofl....because no1 use exploits on consoles or cheats ~~

http://gamerust.es/wp-content/upload...aster-race.png

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

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Your information is wrong. According to the creator the base app has no alert function and only displays things within your draw distance (equivalent of the zoomed out mini-map). So unless somebody else took his source code and reworked it so that there is one this won't work. It will work on a local scale, though. So if you rename your chocobo to the name of a hunt mark and sit somewhere in a zone out of the normal line of sight then anyone using the app will run right up to you.

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Originally Posted by scarletfoxxy

The REAL problem is the PC community. None of this "cheating" would even be possible on the PS4.

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The Dark Souls ps3/360 communities would disagree.

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Originally Posted by scarletfoxxy

So maybe SE should think about that next time they decide to develop a game for a questionable community anyway.

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yes the questionable pc community that comprises 95% of mmo titles and players.

I'd give you ten likes if I could OP. Spot on.

The very moment they made content FFXI-Tier competition instead of "shared" like 98% of 14's content is, this was destined to come next. You have a load of FFXI and MMO vets who are used to cheating vs competition in stressful claim environments. In 14, this wasn't the case the majority of the time. Now they've added an event that is extremely desirable to everyone:

But the catch is we have to compete for the prize.

What comes next is natural, its like throwing a wad of 100 dollar bills into the middle of a third-world-ghetto and saying "HAVE AT IT FOLKS"

There are cheaters in any game. Be it singleplayer, multiplayer, online, offline, board game, pen-and-paper. People do cheat and that's sadly a fact that cannot be stamped out entirely. It's an arms-race to be sure, all we can do is encourage people to NOT cheat and to report those that do and let SE handle it.

Do.. not.. cheat. That's all you and I can do.

Best part of all this is, it can and will go unpunished. There is literally no means of knowing if someone is using said cheat unless they specifically state that they are using it. No need for official parsers? Welp, this is the sh*t that happens when a third party program that reads from memory is released. Alot more information is available than intended. If anything, SE brought this upon themselves.

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

So calm down, you're not going to see some massive, impressive action after FOUR DAYS

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Why not? Frontlines had a response after 1, maybe 2 days. :P

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

Best part of all this is, it can and will go unpunished. There is literally no means of knowing if someone is using said cheat unless they specifically state that they are using it. No need for official parsers? Welp, this is the sh*t that happens when a third party program that reads from memory is released. Alot more information is available than intended. If anything, SE brought this upon themselves.

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Saying SE brought this upon themselves is a bit drastic, even if they had an official parser in the game, that app would still exist. The only ones to blame for cheating are the people cheating. I'm guessing by your logic when a bank gets robbed, the robbers aren't to blame, the bank is for having all that money just sitting around.

Let's not forget why the app was released in the first place. That's right, parsing. Just that with the need for parsing, these apps had to read from memory. However, what is being read from memory was figured out by people who would condone cheating. What better way to cheat than with an app that is undetectable? Add in the fact that this app has become so widespread because of its intended use, it has become so that an actual undetectable cheating app has become easily available to a large majority of the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Why not? Frontlines had a response after 1, maybe 2 days. :P

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Because the notable difference is one was an internal fault that could be easily found and rectified (with a band-aid hotfix and the actual true fix isn't coming for another week), the other is an external exploit that requires figuring out how exactly it can and does interface with the game.

I'll leave it to the reader to work out which is which.

Two very specific things that need to be said on the subject:

1. There will always be those that attempt to cheat, and even make it their goal to find every possible way to do so, whatever the cost.

2. Any game company worth their salt is waging a constant battle against this, but the proceedings, shy of the occasional mass ban-wave, are going to be largely invisible to players because the less cheaters know that the devs are on to them, the better chances the devs have to both catch them off guard and break whatever methods they were using to cheat.

It is an ugly and complicated affair, and probably the least fun aspect of managing a game like this (excluding perhaps the vindictive satisfaction of wielding the banhammer when the time finally comes), but never stop reporting, and never let the discussion die -- just keep it proactive and constructive.

"Why doesn't Square-Enix ever do anything about cheaters?" is not a constructive statement.

There's a pretty hilarious amount of ignorance when it comes to this FFXIV App Radar.
I'm not a user myself, but I at least researched it before I went to an internet forum to complain.

The OP is nothing but an intentionally vague outline of the app which misguides those reading into thinking it's a hack, or something that allows players to instantly find every hunt monster.
It isn't.

The app doesn't find every mark on the map or in the zone, it cannot detect beyond the draw distance set by the game. It is not a be all, end all method of finding hunt marks.
I am not disputing that it gives an advantage, it does.
However, the only advantage it gives is the ability to see things that are outside your field of vision (ie. behind you)

I looked into this too after all this whining and if I am understanding it right it only shows the mobs in the area of your minimap. So like you said, it is only an advantage if there is a mob behind you or around a corner. It is not like you can stay in the middle of the map and see everything pop.

Don't get me wrong, not saying it is ok to use it, it is still cheating, but people make it sound way worse than it is.

The only thing what you can do to get seals faster: MAKE A FRIEND. Join with their community, share with other, and respect them. You will be surprised, you will get lot of seals in no time. What do they need from you ? Active, be supportive, respect other, and don't backstab each other.

PROFIT ?

ps: I see almost every server have more than 15 hunt LS which is full/almost full. It is 128 * 15 = 1920. Let's take it only 1/3 active. It is still 640 players. Imagine if you are part of that community, and every player spreads around the map, waiting for you when they find a mark and kill it together. This is what really going on and it beats "that way" by 99:1 (community power:"that way" power).

Do you need to use "that way" if you have this powerful tool (Friend, community itself) ? NOPE.

Hunt is about community power. If you find a good hunt party, stick with it, try to active. And you will surprised how fast you get seals (and lost your gil >.<).

no matter how slight the radar advantage is, its innately against the TOS, ban em all. soon.

hunts are designed terrible atm yes a ls full of members alerting others to converge 35 ppl n a low rank mob to have no one get any credit lol...brilliant, just outstanding community power. I DO think its great the ls are there with very good intentions but the basic design of these nm is FLAWED , that's what needs to be addressed very very soon before it jades too many customers.

ban the cheaters
fix the elites
add alternate ways to pop them as well as wandering ones and this would finally be a decent thing to participate in

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

How's about we actually give the Devs time to address this. Because an exploit like this will most likely not only need mass bans, but also a update that will "break " the app.

So how's 'bout we all calm down, and not act like "Oh woe! Nothing will EVER get done about this!" after 4 freakin' days.

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I agree to a degree, but those 4 little days already have people with more Sands and Oils than they could ever have dreamed of from abusing this app. If it goes on too long I dread to think how this could end up.

Anyone from Gilgamesh who does hunting should be able to tell you about a certain large FC that is going around and using the app to zerg through marks. In my first encounter with them after they did this they had the audacity to claim it was "magic" and went so far to tell us they were the greatest FC ever. I've also heard from other people on the server they made fun of other people for not being able to get to marks as fast as they do. Keep in mind---it is public knowledge, and now confirmed, that they have been using the app! I just don't understand how they can be so arrogant when they're using third party software.

My other issue with this app (and I'm certain one of the reason Square Enix doesn't allow it) is that console users have no access to it. At least with parsers you are not affecting any one else's gameplay. With the app they're able to find marks quicker by using something console players are unable to. It does diminish our chances at a fair game.

Keep in mind there was another thread about this, and an FC bragged to someone about how they are getting marks and sent them this screen shot:

http://i.imgur.com/NuvS7a9.jpg

So, no, there are some apps out there that don't only use your mini map. They give you the entire map worth.

Why you are angry about what happens?
If you have to find a monster on a big map and you NEED it for a quest... well thats not the problem.
But when you search that monster for hours and finally it spawns near, you run instant to its location just to see it dieing and you can start from where you begun anew...
Way too low Life to reach the monster in time, that way they should have made one spawn for each player and not one for the server...
also if you could camp a location it may be better than what we have now, that searching is stupid.

What we see on Odin and Behemoth FATES: LS and FC are keeping the spawn secret to have it for their own friends...

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

If you want to "catch" people, just rename your chocobo to a hunt in that zone and hide behind some rocks in an obscure spot. If people directly run to you then stop all confused then you know lol.

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Just tried this out myself. One of the well known radar using FC members didn't seem too impressed with my impression of Garlok. But in all seriousness, how much more proof do we need to find for them. Multiple players have seen and reported them and still nothing.

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Originally Posted by Pyreflye

That is nothing but a misleading image.

The FFXIV App overlay does not scale to your in-game map.
You're telling me there's a Snow Wolf Pup spawned outside the map?

No.
I tested it out for myself earlier to confirm all the stuff people say about it.
What you posted is nothing but misleading nonsense.

Did you even read the chat box?
"Something pops within render distance"

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Does this somehow make it less of an advantage? Or any less illegal?

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Originally Posted by Ephany

What I don't understand, is why it's sooooooo important for these people to "win" to the point that they feel the need to exploit through third party software.
I mean... it's just a game, right?
Competition in hunts and pvp is part of the game. So really, what will they do when they have everything by doing nothing then have nothing left to do.

My brain is frazzled but I know what I'm trying to say >.<

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I don't think it ever was about winning (maybe for a very limited group of people). Usually it would be to avoid wasting time. Like in FF11, where it is better to cheat and get fafnir after 3 hours camping, than to camp 3 hours and lose it so you wasted 3 hours for nothing.

PS. My LS never cheated, but I am well aware of how frustrated I was to always be asked to go camp for hours for nothing and waste my life.

i assume people pissed at this are new to the mmo scene? not really an exploit.
any mmo worth its salt has these things. add ons that spot and point you to mining/gathering nodes rare spawn locations, that have alarms for boss abilities etc etc. nothing new or extraordinary here.

puzzled.

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Originally Posted by Pyreflye

How am I being a bitch by proving you wrong.
It's your own fault for not researching the images you find.

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It's not what you're saying/doing, it's how you say/do it. Your post is completely dripping with a condescending attitude, as are all of your previous posts.

That's my last piece on the matter, I'm not going to derail the topic any further or waste my time feeding into your ego.

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Originally Posted by razzgrizz3

i assume people pissed at this are new to the mmo scene? not really an exploit.
any mmo worth its salt has these things. add ons that spot and point you to mining/gathering nodes rare spawn locations, that have alarms for boss abilities etc etc. nothing new or extraordinary here.

puzzled.

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It is an exploit because they don't allow third party software like this, and people are using it to claim an advantage in the Hunt system.

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Originally Posted by LadyVal

It's not what you're saying/doing, it's how you say/do it. Your post is completely dripping with a condescending attitude, as are all of your previous posts.

That's my last piece on the matter, I'm not going to derail the topic any further or waste my time feeding into your ego.

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I know I came across as condescending, it was intentional.

Your post gave your word off as fact, and I proved you wrong.
Now, instead of simply admitting that you were mistaken, you are taking to insulting me and bringing my "ego" into it.

Sorry for proving you wrong, I guess?

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Originally Posted by Wolfram_Alexandros

I assume we agree that people who are using this app like this are cheating and should be banned.

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I absolutely agree.

People should have the common sense to see that these kinds of things have the potential to be a bannable offense.
They use it at their own risk, and if it leads to a ban, then so be it.

If SE had launched the game with addon support, or had at least implemented it on schedule, this wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue. The fact that people had to turn to 3rd party programs just to find out if they were doing decent DPS or to help them react to a boss faster opened the floodgates. Once you're running a third-party program there's little barrier to simply tacking on another "feature" like this. A regulated addon environment could have enabled the "essentials" while leaving grey area stuff like this outside the scope. Far fewer people would be willing to install a third-party program if they could get those things through a first-party sanctioned channel.

I am not advocating for third-party programs, DPS meters, or anything else, but it's an unavoidable fact that a very significant portion of the playerbase wants certain things and will turn to a third party for them if they are unavailable, as they have in this game.

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Originally Posted by Pyreflye

I absolutely agree.

People should have the common sense to see that these kinds of things have the potential to be a bannable offense.
They use it at their own risk, and if it leads to a ban, then so be it.

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So you have admitted to having third party software, and that you have used it in the past with the parser, so we both agree you should be banned.