dissapointed at ramuh EX difficulty

I mean, they already introduced Echo for Moogle Ex. Moogle Ex.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

The "The game is too easy when my ilvl is near max" argument has no sway here. It's supposed to be easier when you're that geared.

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Except the game basically throws level 100 stuff at you...

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Originally Posted by Edli

They should. Words have meaning, they're not there just for fun.

Titan hard was hard. Titan extreme was extreme. Words don't stand for nothing. If they don't serve their purpose might as well remove them.

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While I personally love a challenge as well, I can understand why SE does this with difficulty, they're trying to cater to both audiences and they make that clear with their patch structure which typically follows the easy > hard > easy > hard pattern.

Personally I'll be happy to be able to take some of my less skilled friends into something aside from dungeons and ST for once. A handful of them have been trying to beat titan extreme for far too long, many of which are more than skilled enough to do the fight but just have no luck finding a good party.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

While I personally love a challenge as well, I can understand why SE does this with difficulty, they're trying to cater to both audiences and they make that clear with their patch structure which typically follows the easy > hard > easy > hard pattern.

Personally I'll be happy to be able to take some of my less skilled friends into something aside from dungeons and ST for once. A handful of them have been trying to beat titan extreme for far too long, many of which are more than skilled enough to do the fight but just have no luck finding a good party.

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Isn't this what everyone says?

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Isn't this what everyone says?

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What's your point? In a lot of cases it's the truth, who are you to judge?

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Except the game basically throws level 100 stuff at you...

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Yet if they went the other way this forum would be full of the tears from people crying that it's hard or it's a grind.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

What's your point? In a lot of cases it's the truth, who are you to judge?

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Someone who managed to beat Titan Ex every week I needed it when Echo wasn't even around.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Except the game basically throws level 100 stuff at you...

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100 isn't max. So what are you trying to say?

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Someone who managed to beat Titan Ex every week I needed it when Echo wasn't even around.

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Good for you, if you're telling me that you've never had a bad titan ex pug then you're full of balony. I also beat all the extremes multiple times pre-echo, do you want to pat me on the back as well?

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

100 isn't max. So what are you trying to say?

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It's pretty much close to the max. You hardly need 110 for the new fights, level 100 is already an overkill and allows you to bypass a lot of mechanics.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

Good for you, if you're telling me that you've never had a bad titan ex pug then you're full of balony. I also beat all the extremes multiple times pre-echo, do you want to pat me on the back as well?

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Oh I did. But I find hard to believe, even with FFXIV low-skill players, people can't find a good party ever for Titan exe. Considering how many ppl on the forum go around screaming "I'm good, I swear, it's just I can't find a good pt", it may be starting to consider these "so skilled people who can't find a good pt ever" may actually be the weak link in their pt.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Oh I did. But I find hard to believe, even with FFXIV low-skill players, people can't find a good party ever for Titan exe. Considering how many ppl on the forum go around screaming "I'm good, I swear, it's just I can't find a good pt", it may be starting to consider these "so skilled people who can't find a good pt ever" may actually be the weak link in their pt.

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I still don't see your point, does belittling the players that have a hard time make you feel better or something? There are a hell of a lot more bad Titan Ex parties in the party finder than good ones, even post echo. All it takes for that fight to go wrong is one bad healer/tank or some bad dps, it's not some big discovery that the margin for error is small on that fight. If you can't agree with that then my only question for you is, do you even pug? Help me understand your point.

All I'm saying is that I'm happy to have a new primal to do with casual friends, didn't come here to argue about the difficulty of finding a good pug group for titan ex. The next patch will contain more hard stuff and considering nobody has beaten savage coil I'm sure there is still something hard to sink your teeth into.

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Originally Posted by Crimson-Falcon

can be ignored now since its not pre-requisite anymore

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I thought you still needed all 3 EX Primals to get Ramuh? And also needed Levi EX?
Myself i am at Titan EX but only because i am in no hurry

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Originally Posted by Maero

I thought you still needed all 3 EX Primals to get Ramuh? And also needed Levi EX?

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Patch took that away. Notes.

Edit: Sorry, I think the patch took away the requirement of Ifrit for Moogle/Levi Ex - not Ramuh. In order to fight Ramuh Ex, you need Moogle/Levi Ex clear.

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Originally Posted by Maero

I thought you still needed all 3 EX Primals to get Ramuh? And also needed Levi EX?
Myself i am at Titan EX but only because i am in no hurry

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Nope now you only need to beat Moggy and Levi Ex.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Equip your gear so you have an 85 ilvl.

Go back in.

Tell me how easy it is. Better yet go in all the new dungeons at the lowest ilvl you can and tell me how easy they are.
I will laugh when you come back here and say " IT TOO HARD, NERF". People don't pay attention to the ilvl of something
and the gear they enter that instance with. Of course you are going to blow through it with i98 ilvl or higher.

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Artificial difficulty doesn't = difficulty, though. It's tuned for people above the Ilvl required to ENTER. That way you don't enter so undergeared you get destroyed.

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Originally Posted by Crimson-Falcon

lets see how savage coil will be

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Guilds were beating it (6-9) within 2 hours of zoning in.... So not hard at all.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Except the game basically throws level 100 stuff at you...

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The game isn't forcing you to wear i100 stuff tho, you can obtain lower ilvl gear easier than i100 and add some challenge to this fight.

While I have beat Ramuh EX within 24hrs of the patch, I by no means consider it easier then levi EX. That fight is not easy to contain the damage being done all around especially during the add phase. It also hates melee to an extent.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

The game isn't forcing you to wear i100 stuff tho, you can obtain lower ilvl gear easier than i100 and add some challenge to this fight.

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It has been repeated again and again, purposely going in with lower ilv gear is artificial difficulty. It is extremely easy and even faster with ST to obtain ilv 100 gear, but devs keep dishing out fights that are tuned to be done with the best gear from when the game came out 11 months ago. These fights are fun, yes, they're very-well done, but why make ilv 100 gear increasingly easier to get if there is only one dungeon right now tuned for that gear?

The same can be said about the new dungeons. They're incredibly well-done (Tamtara's theme and story was by far the best I've seen in any MMO and I'm looking very much forward to redoing that place), but it does not even feel ilv 70 because these monsters feel more like beefy punching bags. You can ignore some mechanics and it gives players a lazy mindset. Even if they do not add more content tuned to ilv 100, the devs need to make not following mechanics more punishing, like Leviathan HM, for instance. Don't increase his HP, but make getting hit by dashes and such actually matter, so it's one less thing to learn before going into EX. The bosses in Pharos Sirius are a good example of this, and so is the Cyclops in AV because they punish you for ignoring mechanics. Even if something is tuned to lower ilv, putting more of an emphasis on mechanics will prevent fights from becoming facerolls.

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Originally Posted by Ispen

Nope now you only need to beat Moggy and Levi Ex.

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ahh yes but for Levi EX you need the 3 primals down do you not?
so sort of the same thing, lol

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Originally Posted by Maero

ahh yes but for Levi EX you need the 3 primals down do you not?
so sort of the same thing, lol

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Not anymore

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Originally Posted by Maero

ahh yes but for Levi EX you need the 3 primals down do you not?
so sort of the same thing, lol

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You do not need the first 3 primals down to unlock levi/moogle ex anymore, that was changed this patch. You simply need to complete the 2.1/2.2 storylines and the hm version of the fight to unlock extremes for those now. Titan/Ifrit is no longer a requirement.

In order to fight ramuh however you need to defeat moogle and levi extreme first and complete the 2.3 storyline.

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Originally Posted by Odett

It has been repeated again and again, purposely going in with lower ilv gear is artificial difficulty. It is extremely easy and even faster with ST to obtain ilv 100 gear, but devs keep dishing out fights that are tuned to be done with the best gear from when the game came out 11 months ago. These fights are fun, yes, they're very-well done, but why make ilv 100 gear increasingly easier to get if there is only one dungeon right now tuned for that gear?

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There will always be an influx of new players as well as older player leveling alt jobs who will find these dungeons challenging until the manage to overgear it. Pharos was an excellent dungeon, that could even give i90 players pause but we all know how that turned out... My first ever time queuing for it (pre-nerf) the other three party members left instantly. Unfortunately the masses HAVE spoken, and they don't want that level of difficulty in their 4-man dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Odett

The same can be said about the new dungeons. They're incredibly well-done (Tamtara's theme and story was by far the best I've seen in any MMO and I'm looking very much forward to redoing that place), but it does not even feel ilv 70 because these monsters feel more like beefy punching bags. You can ignore some mechanics and it gives players a lazy mindset. Even if they do not add more content tuned to ilv 100, the devs need to make not following mechanics more punishing, like Leviathan HM, for instance. Don't increase his HP, but make getting hit by dashes and such actually matter, so it's one less thing to learn before going into EX. The bosses in Pharos Sirius are a good example of this, and so is the Cyclops in AV because they punish you for ignoring mechanics. Even if something is tuned to lower ilv, putting more of an emphasis on mechanics will prevent fights from becoming facerolls.

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I disagree. This will just make every fight into Titan Ex. Besides, even an overgeared party needs to handle mechanics somewhat appropriately in the new dungeons. Especially Tam-Tara. I'd love to see a group brute force every single boss in that fight.

It would definitely not turn every fight into Titan EX. Levi EX is a good example, not dodging one dash doesn't kill you, but it does a large amount of damage and places a stacking debuff on you. You do not need to turn a fight into Titan EX to make mechanics matter, and I already listed other examples in my previous post to prove my point.

I did not mean brute force and ignore all mechanics, but many CAN be ignored, like standing in the middle of all Desolations and not suffering worthwhile damage, which lessens the severity of that mechanic. It's silly that it wold be like this in an ilv 70 "expert" endgame dungeon, while not dodging ONE Desolation in a pre 50 dungeon kills you (oh look, another fight where you can't ignore mechanics).

People QQing on the forums is not the masses. People complained about Pharos because it was a dungeon that required a small amount of communication and you actually had to pay attention to all the mechanics. SE decided to nerf it, it does not mean that the "masses" were right, and just like some players liked it, a lot also think that it was a very poor move.

The thing is that I find Levi Ex to have very straightforward and easily handled mechanics (like Titan). Very little in the way of positioning or juggling multiple tasks. It's more of a "do this"... okay now "don't do that". I prefer something more chaotic like Ifrit or Mog/Ultima that have a lot of things to look out for at once. That is just my personal opinion though and I simultaneously love and loathe Mog Ex (whole other topic).

As for Pharos it's not QQing on the forums. My example was taken from my in-game experience. And not just a one-time deal. It was a very common occurrence and I experienced it in at least a third of the roulettes that slotted me there. That is an incredibly high occurrence relative to other places. I never said anything about the masses being "right", simply that they rejected it. And regardless of whether it was "right" or "wrong", SE is unlikely to make content that large numbers of people will not just ignore, but avoid in a way that negatively affects the gameplay of others (wasted queues).

I want more challenging 4-man dungeons. I just don't know how they would go about it given the reception so far. And I do like the level of difficulty present in the newer places.

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Originally Posted by Crimson-Falcon

the fight is not really hard its even easier than levi EX tbh

got him down to 30% in 1 hour of practicing -_-

lets see how savage coil will be

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OP, thank you for your useless thread. :)

Did you complain when Levi EX came out? Because Levi EX is pretty damn easy.

lol, maybe i undestand u, i want to hate another primal like titan

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

What were you expecting though? It's i85 isn't it? You mentioned you're doing Savage Coil, which means you've beaten T9 so I'm guessing you're probably floating around i110 mark or just under. Of course you'd find it easy.

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But that's exactly the point: not enough content for High-geared people.

Those who can't down the second coil might still enjoy, but those at the far end of the spectrum, they need to have their fun as well.

And yes, same with Syrcus tower: so predictable, we died once on our first try, everything is so like the labyrinth, with only a few different mechanics.

At least when Rogue/Ninja and let's hope other classes/jobs will come around, we'll start at lvl 1, to enjoy a few hours before cap..

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I'm curious OP, do you want content you can't beat or just content the majority of the player base can't beat?

If the former, you're a masochist, if the latter you're an exclusionist.

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The majority of the player base can't beat the end content surely because we are simply not there yet, not 'rushing' to do only that.

and to have a challenge in games, makes the accomplishment much more rewarding.

I think the issue is that the concept of HM was thrown hard out of the window with Levi(HM) and Moogle(HM). They had the (Hard) brand, but neither were difficult and I had very crappy iLvls when I beat them. I hadn't played for a year, wore AK armor and Darklight Cuirass with an Aetherial Cobalt Elmo. We had several first timers (myself included) for Moogle, so of course we screwed up twice before winning. I didn't even have to start over Levi. They should have bumped the difficulties, so what we know as their EXs would have been their HMs and then they could have made new EXs for a future patch. Apply that concept to Ramuh and the problems some hardcores would have are basically gone.

I do think that there is a bit of "I'm too good for this game" egotism going on around here though. There reaches a point where, yes, you and your friends will beat stuff faster than everyone else. However, that does not mean this stuff is crud for the remaining 80% of players. You'll get your difficulty and refreshment in the future, rest assured. I doubt the EX battles are the last difficulty.

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

But that's exactly the point: not enough content for High-geared people.

Those who can't down the second coil might still enjoy, but those at the far end of the spectrum, they need to have their fun as well.

And yes, same with Syrcus tower: so predictable, we died once on our first try, everything is so like the labyrinth, with only a few different mechanics.

At least when Rogue/Ninja and let's hope other classes/jobs will come around, we'll start at lvl 1, to enjoy a few hours before cap..



The majority of the player base can't beat the end content surely because we are simply not there yet, not 'rushing' to do only that.

and to have a challenge in games, makes the accomplishment much more rewarding.

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Game is a theme park, it's not made for hardcore.

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

But that's exactly the point: not enough content for High-geared people.

Those who can't down the second coil might still enjoy, but those at the far end of the spectrum, they need to have their fun as well.

And yes, same with Syrcus tower: so predictable, we died once on our first try, everything is so like the labyrinth, with only a few different mechanics.

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Yes, and those at the far end of the spectrum had their fun last patch. I know both sides complain, but I see far more whining after the casual patch than I do the hardcore one. They've given you Savage Coil, that is where you have your fun as well. They never said Ramuh EX was going to be the hardest fight in the world, it drops i100, so it's clearly aimed towards those gearing for Second Coil as opposed to whooping it weekly. And one again, it's i85 requirement. Of course it won't be hard in a T9 downing i110 static group.

TBH, Ramuh EX isn't that comparatively difficult because players are decking in higher level gear. It was comparatively not that difficult because there wasn't any introduction of much new mechanics vs the HM version.

For example, you at Titan HM and Titan EX and you can notice differences in bomb patterns, bomb explosion timing difference, importance of gaol placement, adds and how they may interact with the gaols, superbombs etc. Ifrit HM and Ifrit EX also have some striking differences, mechanics and debuffs.

However, what is different in Ramuh HM and Ramuh EX? TBH the difference is very little. In summary, Ramuh's attacks hits harder which is like every EX Primal. Spawns more adds which is nothing surprising. More loose static charges floating around that requires people to clear them, and the introduction of the debuff "Seduced".

With this in mind, it is largely an easier fight to dive into, even when blind, because the mechanics are largely repeated. Tanks pick up the Surge Protection buff for tanking while any loose charges are to be picked up by the rest to reduce Thunderstorm damage.

Chaotic Strike hits 2 persons and caused them to stuck in a Terror debuff which requires them to be freed by letting the Thunderstorm attack shock them. This is no different from HM, with the only difference is that when you fail to do so, the terrorized members will die due to the Seduced debuff effect.

Thunderstorm hits harder and produces more loose static so the team have to have the initiative to watch the party list and take initiate to pick up the charges near them once both tanks have the Surge Protection buff up, and leave sufficient around for them to refresh themselves. The tanks can call out for this also.

The 2 persons being chained by the lightning will have the Casualty debuff which is the same as HM. Stop using your skills to stop taking damage and cleanse yourself quickly.

The very problem with players is that they think that story mode is probably a joke and zerg it because they are overgearred. No, story mode does give you a hint of what to expect on EX and Ramuh HM gives you bloody big hints because a lot of mechanics and debuffs are being carried over. I have players asking really simple questions that they could have gotten the answer if they have looked at the tool tip/description of the various buffs and debuffs, which is really facepalm.

No I am not expecting one shots or whatever, but if you don't start reading tooltips and descriptions and take notice on things such as the add's thunderbolts are actually thin purple lightnings that are actually noticeable and dodge-able , how the heck are you supposed to clear the content during day 1? Hope for a MrHappy vid to tell you everything? :rolleyes:

Pretty much what was said above by ooshima. However I will say Ramuh is 99% about coordination. I don't think people will have an easy time winning in pugs without some form of voice communication. Fighting him feels like a mix if t6\8 with a twist, I did beat him even got tank shield. However if people die you can recover. You can even use healer, tank, or melee lb. The fight has some small rng elements like who thunderstorms are going to be on and the random ones on the field. Melee need to be good at moving in and out. All in all don't look forward to following a cookie cutter strat found on a video. Learn the fight develop your own conventions because otherwise it will be a pain.

the funny thing abt this whole topic is op didnt even beat ramuh ex and then complains abt its too easy.
well...its not all that easy now is it lol.

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Originally Posted by Mardel

Pretty much what was said above by ooshima. However I will say Ramuh is 99% about coordination. I don't think people will have an easy time winning in pugs without some form of voice communication. Fighting him feels like a mix if t6\8 with a twist, I did beat him even got tank shield. However if people die you can recover. You can even use healer, tank, or melee lb. The fight has some small rng elements like who thunderstorms are going to be on and the random ones on the field. Melee need to be good at moving in and out. All in all don't look forward to following a cookie cutter strat found on a video. Learn the fight develop your own conventions because otherwise it will be a pain.

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I think it requires a high sense of initiative as well. I was trying in PF yesterday with a FC mate and since I generally know what the fight is about, I was telling the guys what might be good to do. What I did was other than the 2 tanks, the rest spread out around the A B C triangle waymarks which also helps to spread out Thunderstorm. It was very straightforward - if you have the Chaos Strike mark, move into the waymark. If you have the thunderstorm AoE on you, check your left and right waymark to see if you have any mates stuck in terror and rescue them.

Nope, I saw my FC mate inside the waymark waiting for a rescue, he and one mate on the left and one on the right with the Thunderstorm and no one moved to save him.

Then we have both tanks with surge protection up, I went to pick up some extras and I also have the surge protection already and there are like 6-7 static charges left over on the arena. Nope, no one had the initiative to take them and let Thunderstorms zap us for 3k lol.