FUTURE OF FFXIV - I hope different from now

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

You seem to enjoy treadmilling and gimmicky fan-fare -- and that's cool. You are obviously the target market for this sort of thing.

But I'm a player who wants depth in their MMO and I can't justify paying for another round of iLvl+10 gear progression and team jump-rope.

Which is why I'm out when my sub is up.




I totally admit to being in the minority.

But, popularity almost never reflects quality. Rather, it just means you've hit the lowest common denominator -- eg. 'Frozen', Two and a Half Men, Miller Lite, Taco Bell, Wallmart, Dr. Phil, Public Education, etc.

Case in point: Zynga games have far more popularity than ARR. Would you prefer SE adopt their business model for the future of ARR?

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True, but I don't go to Nickelback concerts and complain about being there to the people that like it while insisting that the performance be changed to reflect something that I think I would enjoy....

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Originally Posted by Hewenttojared

True, but I don't go to Nickelback concerts and complain about being there to the people that like it while insisting that the performance be changed to reflect something that I think I would enjoy....

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If you were a long-time fan of a band. (Nickelback, in your case), had purchased tickets to see them live, and only found out after the concert had started that the entire set list was repeating a cover of "Let it Go" 14x (because its SOOOO popular right now!!) , I think you'd find yourself in the same situation.


I've enjoyed the FF series since the FFI on the NES. I stuck through the entire FFXIV 1.0 debacle because I believed in SE's commitment to the FF franchise and to its fans. Trust me, If I didn't want this game to be better, I'd wash my hands of this whole mess and walk away.

As I've already paid for my time, I thought I'd lobby the community here to see if other people were interested in things like exploration, adventure, discovery, and meaningful decision making in this game. *Or have all those people already left?

TBH, I'd re-sub today if any of the following were even announced, as it would indicate a step in the right direction:

1) The addition of a true 'support' role. (with corresponding classes/jobs)
2) A ceiling on iLvl and subsequent introduction of gear with ability boosts and other interesting stats.
3) Significant randomness introduced into all boss fights, dungeon runs, drops etc.
4) New, more wide open zones populated with mobs with levels higher than the cap.

Any of these changes would signal to me that the developers want to take the safety-rails off of this game and make it a place for adventure and exploration -- a wild and living MMO fantasy world rather than a sanitized theme-park for team jump-ropers.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Which is why I'm out when my sub is up.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Trust me, If I didn't want this game to be better, I'd wash my hands of this whole mess and walk away.

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I guess we'll see ya later then.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

How much of that was due to marketing and hype of a new game, or simply the revamp of the UI?

Not everything changed for the better with ARR.

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Uh....again 10k players compared to few hundred thousand players.....nuff said!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Searain

I no longer had static because i had some real life issues and i cannot guarantee a stable presence.For this I would like to know: the future of a player who can not have static is to stop playing FFIVX?

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Pretty much yes. I raided too until Patch 1.2 was released. Then I stopped because I coulnd't spend so much time in the game because of reallife and new relationship. I also canceled the subscription. Since I have my studies-holiday currently I resubscribed however all I can do is every daily roulette once and then it's over. At the end of this month I'm gonna cancel my subscription again because there simple isn't anything to do for non raiders - atleast nothing that makes fun as going into harder content with DF just ends with a huge flame and ragequit and that isn't fun at all. FFXIV is a good game, but only for those who doesn't have much responsibilities or those very few lucky guys who found a girl that likes to game and raid too (oh how I'm jealous about that ;) ).

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Originally Posted by Ragecake

Like many games, this game is only as fun as the amount of effort you put into it.

This isn't a problem that SE needs to fix. If you want fun, you have to find it.

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I want to like this many times over. Hell... I want it for my signature!!

OP is yet another victim of end-game community divide by the way it is currently designed.

Although it is understandable how you feel about the current end-game system, you have to be more proactive in finding other players who have similar schedules and mindsets to progress through the end-game content. It would be nice if SE decides to redesign the current end-game system since it really is just a rinse and repeat weekly lockout fiasco. But, I don't see them doing this until they introduce the cheap noob-friendly Echo buff in patch 2.4-2.5 to accommodate people who don't like or cannot clear weekly end-game lockout content.

Till that time, however, SE will keep this system to continuously generate money from sucker players like myself who like gambling every week just to see what drops will fall in SCOB :D

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

I've enjoyed the FF series since the FFI on the NES. I stuck through the entire FFXIV 1.0 debacle because I believed in SE's commitment to the FF franchise and to its fans. Trust me, If I didn't want this game to be better, I'd wash my hands of this whole mess and walk away.

As I've already paid for my time, I thought I'd lobby the community here to see if other people were interested in things like exploration, adventure, discovery, and meaningful decision making in this game. *Or have all those people already left?

TBH, I'd re-sub today if any of the following were even announced, as it would indicate a step in the right direction:

1) The addition of a true 'support' role. (with corresponding classes/jobs)
2) A ceiling on iLvl and subsequent introduction of gear with ability boosts and other interesting stats.
3) Significant randomness introduced into all boss fights, dungeon runs, drops etc.
4) New, more wide open zones populated with mobs with levels higher than the cap.

Any of these changes would signal to me that the developers want to take the safety-rails off of this game and make it a place for adventure and exploration -- a wild and living MMO fantasy world rather than a sanitized theme-park for team jump-ropers.

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I understand how you feel, as I loved every FF since the original on the NES. Never had a qualm with any of them until after X, after which point they started changing. XII was just downright bizarre, and when XIII came out? Oh how I railed against that one.

But the counter arguments against me were true and eventually made sense: FF games have always evolved and changed.They push the limits of their technology and adapt to the playerbase, which is why they did so well here in the west in the first place. ARR is in fact the natural progression for the series to go through, whereas 1.0 was trying to hold on to the past. Like it or not, FF games are trendy, it's just that we used to be in the target audience, but that's now expanded beyond us.

While I do feel that the series lost something overall with the loss of Hironobu Sakaguchi, I don't believe that even his presence on the dev team would alter ARR in the way you're looking for.

The game is already watered down for the Casual and they ask for more water...

I'd like to find out what the community's definition of a Fanboy is. To me it sounds like someone that actually plays the game and not make all type of excuses not to. If you want to raid and find a static, set a schedule that works around your daily life. If you can not do that then simply stop playing games or play something that doesn't require scheduling.

For people that have to wait for content to get into Duty Finder or pay for win just to get to new content, then it should be understood that even with new content, you will wait till that goes to Duty Finder or pay for win.

SE needs to cater more to the End-Game community or atleast offer more content that requires less RNG. Something like the Relic Reborn. Im sure implementing the Relic Reborn 2.0 into the game, half the community will be satisfied. No more atma/alexandrite grind which is just a rouse to get the community to sit in a corner while they think of new ways to make old content relevant.

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Originally Posted by Gucci_Charms

OP is yet another victim of end-game community divide by the way it is currently designed.

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There's just no easy and nice way for me to put it but WoW old end-game design is pretty much not working for the rest of the community. It's not just affecting FFXIV ARR it's gonna affect every MMO. Players are realizing and questioning why the experience is no longer enjoyable.


There has to be objectives that people can do at end game that are rewarding experiences. Yet gating all meaningful rewards behind the hardest content were only a very select few can tackle it the first month is a not the answer to longevity. Nor is it making all secondary and meaningless rewards a painful grind that feels like a punishment.

Basically a combination of
When Difficult Is Fun - The Difference Between Challenging and Punishing Games + How to Teach Complicated Mechanics .
Quest Design I - Why Many MMOs Rely on Repetitive Grind Quests + Quest Design II - How to Create Interesting MMO and RPG Quests

I'm not gonna judge FFXIV ARR until the expansion comes out but they could've made better choices between 2.2 through 2.3. They could have also tackled E3 better and the current constant "silence" isn't helping.

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Originally Posted by DeathFiend

If you want to raid and find a static, set a schedule that works around your daily life. If you can not do that then simply stop playing games or play something that doesn't require scheduling.

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That mentality hasn't worked for years, yet it keeps being used.

Maybe we have different playstyles, but I really don't think this game absolutely requires you to have a static or there ends up being nothing to do. Of course, in order to do the second coil of bahamaut you need to start communicating with other people but up to that point by yourself it's manageable to get up to Turn 5 by yourself. Without a set group. Most MMO's do this and FFXIV:ARR is no different.

It comes down to how much effort you're willing to put into FFXIV:ARR. Considering you're practically waiting for your subscription to run out now I'm going to assume because it's not 100% reliable to use the DF it's too much of a bother to otherwise to find your own means of completing the content that YOU want to do in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

Cool info

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So true :3

If you like raid finder, go play wow and go away.

Furthermore anyone who mentions they played during 1.0 should immediately be ignored. If you played that game for more then 2 hours and did not quit your opinion is worthless.

I still want my money back for the collectors edition.

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Originally Posted by Oblitae

to get up to Turn 5 by yourself. Without a set group.

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Coils 1-5 was released August 27, 2013. Almost a year ago.
Anything from 2.1+ was released on December 17, 2013 and after.
Anything from 2.2+ was released on March 27 and after.
And 2.3 will be released on July 8th.


If anyone, casual or hard core still struggling on any content regardless of finding static or other reasons... that your problem. Finding a static is not SE job when they have Party Finder and Duty Finder already there for you. Even "playing at your own pace" does not mean "wait a year later to complain about content".

The only people that needs to complain are the ones that are atma/alexandrite grinding since 2.2 and still not get all 12 atma or 72 alexandrite base on RNG. Nothing to do with skill or having a static.

"Please avoid comments from fanboy" LOL Oh, okay. Here, let's get all the haters in here!

First of all, you can go back and edit your first post after posting it so that you don't have to leave 3 OPs.

Second, make some friends in game. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Players who write I quit in the forums haven't really quit the game they just re sub for a month every time a new patch is out.

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They're probably gonna be first in line for fanfest tickets too.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

They're probably gonna be first in line for fanfest tickets too.

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This /CHAR

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

I totally admit to being in the minority.

But, popularity almost never reflects quality. Rather, it just means you've hit the lowest common denominator -- eg. 'Frozen', Two and a Half Men, Miller Lite, Taco Bell, Wallmart, Dr. Phil, Public Education, etc.

Case in point: Zynga games have far more popularity than ARR. Would you prefer SE adopt their business model for the future of ARR?

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LMAO. You think Frozen isn't quality?


"I totally admit to being in the minority."

Oh, I completely see what kind of person you are now. You're the type of kid who thinks it's cool to dislike things that others like. That way you're always the "minority" and put yourself above all. Don't even try to tell me you don't put yourself above everyone. Because the one sentence in your post gives it away.


In fact...

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

You seem to enjoy treadmilling and gimmicky fan-fare -- and that's cool. You are obviously the target market for this sort of thing.

But I'm a player who wants depth in their MMO and I can't justify paying for another round of iLvl+10 gear progression and team jump-rope.

I totally admit to being in the minority.

But, popularity almost never reflects quality. Rather, it just means you've hit the lowest common denominator -- eg. 'Frozen', Two and a Half Men, Miller Lite, Taco Bell, Wallmart, Dr. Phil, Public Education, etc.

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These parts of your post give away your attitude. The bold sentences are the ones I was referring to directly. My friend was like this when he was 14. But he got over it soon after that. I hope you do too. :) Best of luck!

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

But, popularity almost never reflects quality.

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Pablo Picasso's Old Woman (1901)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...eum_of_Art.jpg


Bouguereau's Meditation (1901)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ion_(1901).jpg

Whatever the future, I'm sure I'll still be playing it. ^^

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

I totally admit to being in the minority.

But, popularity almost never reflects quality. Rather, it just means you've hit the lowest common denominator -- eg. 'Frozen', Two and a Half Men, Miller Lite, Taco Bell, Wallmart, Dr. Phil, Public Education, etc.

Case in point: Zynga games have far more popularity than ARR. Would you prefer SE adopt their business model for the future of ARR?

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LOL, the HIPSTER mentality. Too funny. Go on with your bad self. Who's better then you?

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

There has to be objectives that people can do at end game that are rewarding experiences. Yet gating all meaningful rewards behind the hardest content were only a very select few can tackle it the first month is a not the answer to longevity. Nor is it making all secondary and meaningless rewards a painful grind that feels like a punishment..

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I'd even disagree with the idea that ARR provides players with meaningful rewards. If the game DID actually provide meaningful rewards, it would take much of the sting out of grind, RNG, or punishingly difficult content.


But gear rewards in ARR can neatly be summed up as = iLvl

To use (75capped) FFXI as an example, it was a total pain to camp, claim and defeat mobs that dropped items like Joyeuse, E-bow, Kraken club, etc.. but at the same time, those rewards were powerful, prestigious, and well worth the effort when you finally got them. They didn't have an expiration date either (at least not for many years). The time you spent would pay off in making battles easier and allowing for more creative builds.

What gear is worth the effort in ARR? Not only is it all iLvl vanilla, but every bit of endgame gear in ARR is one patch away from obsolescence. Furthermore, the even the work you put into obtaining it will be completely diminished by the subsequent nerfing of the content. Does it help in battles? Not much. In fact, depending on the fight, excessive DPS can actually make it worse.

So ARR really doesn't have any meaningful rewards... and all of it's rewards have an expiration date.



BTW, I'd add the following to your list of EC videos:

DEPTH vs COMPLEXITY, PERFECT IMBALANCE

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Originally Posted by MuCephei

Pablo Picasso's Old Woman (1901)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...eum_of_Art.jpg

Bouguereau's Meditation (1901)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ion_(1901).jpg

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Bouguereau's work was ridiculed as being old-fashioned by the art community of his time. It took half a century after his death for his sublime brilliance and mastery to be recognized (his works now fetching $10mil+)


Picasso, on the other hand, was highly regarded in his own lifetime and still is today -- even with stiff competition from similar works like:http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/image...oredfresco.jpg

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Originally Posted by Rex

LMAO. You think Frozen isn't quality?

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I'll give it marks for quality in production (the snow simulations are impressive), but that's it. The movie is full of terrible plot holes, lazy writing, disjointed musical numbers, and obvious merchandising ploys (Trolls, anyone?). It's as though the film never made it past it's first draft before the Disney marketing team was given control of it.

'Tangled' was a far, FAR superior movie, in cohesion, writing, plot, artistry, an even *gasp* music (esp. when soundtracks are taken as a whole). Nice comparison HERE

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

If you were a long-time fan of a band. (Nickelback, in your case), had purchased tickets to see them live, and only found out after the concert had started that the entire set list was repeating a cover of "Let it Go" 14x (because its SOOOO popular right now!!) , I think you'd find yourself in the same situation.


I've enjoyed the FF series since the FFI on the NES. I stuck through the entire FFXIV 1.0 debacle because I believed in SE's commitment to the FF franchise and to its fans. Trust me, If I didn't want this game to be better, I'd wash my hands of this whole mess and walk away.

As I've already paid for my time, I thought I'd lobby the community here to see if other people were interested in things like exploration, adventure, discovery, and meaningful decision making in this game. *Or have all those people already left?

TBH, I'd re-sub today if any of the following were even announced, as it would indicate a step in the right direction:

1) The addition of a true 'support' role. (with corresponding classes/jobs)
2) A ceiling on iLvl and subsequent introduction of gear with ability boosts and other interesting stats.
3) Significant randomness introduced into all boss fights, dungeon runs, drops etc.
4) New, more wide open zones populated with mobs with levels higher than the cap.

Any of these changes would signal to me that the developers want to take the safety-rails off of this game and make it a place for adventure and exploration -- a wild and living MMO fantasy world rather than a sanitized theme-park for team jump-ropers.

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Sorry, the sentence of my first post was structurally whack. I'm saying that while I would regard Nickleback as the same level of garbage as the content of your list, I choose to spend my time listening to things that I don't think are horrible. Obviously there is a difference in that you have loyalty for this series as a whole, but it still seems that you simply don't like this game. I'm not saying that I don't want to see it improved or that I'm afraid of change, but I don't wish it was a different game.

I totally agree with your wishlist, but I still think a lot of people found the whole jump-roping term a little overly-profound after they read that blog. Don't get me wrong, random stuff is fun and I want more, but I don't know why people are acting like they've never seen a boss move in patterns. I've been been fighting scripted bosses since my first Bowser kill in '91. It's been pretty common ever since...

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Originally Posted by Searain

If you say something like that means that you do not know what the Raid Finder.
Blizzard have complex mechanics for PVE, or at least more than FFXIV, but in any case are made to ensure that we can deal with in the Raid Finder. I'm not talking about weakening the second Coil, who would do normally could do it, who in the raid finder too, but dropping weakened objects.
However, we do not bring the conversation to other games,and in any case the ones you mentioned have much more user than FFXIV.

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The raid finder in WoW was a joke. All they did was take already easy to do raids, and make them faceroll (ie. so simple, it only took about 5-6 people to pay attention in a 25 man "raid"). Duty Finder is the exact same thing except it doesn't nerf the content so the lazy can complete with little to no work.

[QUOTE=Zantetsuken;2229205]
ARR's player toxicity is a largely side-effect of the devs creating an overly "accessible" and simultaneously an unforgivingly rigid game.

This game design is cheap fodder for the masses. It attracts the most uncreative and self-entitled types of players, and then spoon-feeds them a regular diet of gaudy trinkets to reinforce their pathetic delusions of grandeur.

Even for all of the shortcomings 1.0 had, I always had faith that SE would make good on their promise and deliver a fantastic FF MMO experience (at least on par with FFXI). ARR had tremendous promise, the graphics are gorgeous, the UI fantastic, the world is rich and detailed... but in the process of fixing FFXIV Yoshi P gutted the game of any sense of exploration, adventure. and meaningful decision making.

FFXIV was transformed from a massive and relatively immersive (if flawed) FF world, into a theme-park parody of it's former self.


This is the truth people do not want to hear.
They want things sugarcoated like this game has turn out to be a Candy land theme park. I had high hopes for ARR after sticking around since 1.0 until the end. Yoshi-P the savior that started turning this game around back then became Yoshi-P the corporate puppet.

This game is predictable and flat out boring. They took a working in progress game from 1.23 then gutted it slapped some new IU, graphics and called it a day. Like I said from day 1 of ARR launch until now I would love for them to prove me wrong. Prove that this game is indeed the future, a game with immersion, exploration, adventure, and a sense of purpose. But instead they proved me right with their stale innovation. Wait for it wait for it.... yea keep waiting for expansion.. I am sick of waiting. I have been waiting since 2010.

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Originally Posted by BlackHaloJT

This game is predictable and flat out boring. They took a working in progress game from 1.23 then gutted it slapped some new IU, graphics and called it a day. Like I said from day 1 of ARR launch until now I would love for them to prove me wrong. Prove that this game is indeed the future, a game with immersion, exploration, adventure, and a sense of purpose. But instead they proved me right with their stale innovation. Wait for it wait for it.... yea keep waiting for expansion.. I am sick of waiting. I have been waiting since 2010.

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Again, let me reiterate. 10k players compared to a few hundred thousand. There is a reason people are playing this version and many considered the previous a pile of dung. You were not right about anything but they were right about scrapping that pile of dung.

I play with my wife and we have no issue progressing through content.. We never static and rarely use voice which our FC uses all the time.

So sorry the game doesn't fit your play style, but the fact that you have almost all jobs at 50 kind of put you in the minority of players.

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

Again, let me reiterate. 10k players compared to a few hundred thousand. There is a reason people are playing this version and many considered the previous a pile of dung. You were not right about anything but they were right about scrapping that pile of dung.

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I could really care less about your 10k figures and 2 million player stats. Reiterate that. Scrapping your so called pile of dung and making a bigger pile of dung is all they did. Take your 10k when it was only playable on pc compared to now and cry about it. I don't care. 35% are probably RMT, 35% more are probably inactive. Then you have the rest of your toxic percent left in your rehashed pile of dung game.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

I'll give it marks for quality in production (the snow simulations are impressive), but that's it. The movie is full of terrible plot holes, lazy writing, disjointed musical numbers, and obvious merchandising ploys (Trolls, anyone?). It's as though the film never made it past it's first draft before the Disney marketing team was given control of it.

'Tangled' was a far, FAR superior movie, in cohesion, writing, plot, artistry, an even *gasp* music (esp. when soundtracks are taken as a whole). Nice comparison HERE

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It's one thing to favor Tangled over Frozen. I just might like Tangled more myself. But it's in the numbers and Frozen has been compared to Lion King in popularity. Because you don't enjoy it does not mean the movie is unsuccessful. It is truly a work of art. The amount of work put into the snow and ice is outstanding. The animation is beautiful (It's the same team that did Tangled and Wreck-it Ralph, after all) And the music is a sensation across the world. Not to mention "Let It Go" got an Oscar, and the entire soundtrack as a whole went thirteen non-consecutive weeks at number one. A record held by Titanic since 1998. I mean come on.

And man, I just noticed your sig now too. :( I hope you're not actually that conceited...

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Originally Posted by BlackHaloJT

I could really care less about your 10k figures and 2 million player stats. Reiterate that. Scrapping your so called pile of dung and making a bigger pile of dung is all they did. Take your 10k when it was only playable on pc compared to now and cry about it. I don't care. 35% are probably RMT, 35% more are probably inactive. Then you have the rest of your toxic percent left in your rehashed pile of dung game.

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I'll give you a point or two for effort but you certainly aren't the best troll I've seen.

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Originally Posted by Snipps

I'll give you a point or two for effort but you certainly aren't the best troll I've seen.

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I craft troll food only thing worth to craft you need to buy some?

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Originally Posted by BlackHaloJT

Typical weak reply. I not butthurt about anything getting scrapped kiddo. What I can't stand is you want to fan boy this hold my hand game.

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LOL the fanboy and name calling reply, can there be a weaker reply? Too funny.

Omg someone said something bad about this game. Fan boy minions to the rescue!!!

was anyone else not able to understand a word that the Original Poster said in his 3 or 4 post long original post?

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Originally Posted by BlackHaloJT

snip

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Can we cut the major toxicity in this thread?

Anyways, where is OP?

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

Again, let me reiterate. 10k players compared to a few hundred thousand. There is a reason people are playing this version and many considered the previous a pile of dung. You were not right about anything but they were right about scrapping that pile of dung.

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You keep using that figure, but I don't think it means what you think it means. You ARE aware that 1.0 needed a high-end computer for its time, right? Many people bought the game and couldn't play it because they needed an upgrade.

After 3 years, the MMO industry kind of expanded to a wider audience (getting more players interested), ARR lowered the specs it needed to play, AND went cross platform, appealing to a newer demographic (console MMO audience, many will be their first time). In addition, many people were waiting for the PS4 release, which boosted sales and figures even more. How can you even compare the two?

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Originally Posted by ruinedmirage

You keep using that figure, but I don't think it means what you think it means. You ARE aware that 1.0 needed a high-end computer for its time, right? Many people bought the game and couldn't play it because they needed an upgrade.

After 3 years, the MMO industry kind of expanded to a wider audience (getting more players interested), ARR lowered the specs it needed to play, AND went cross platform, appealing to a newer demographic (console MMO audience, many will be their first time). In addition, many people were waiting for the PS4 release, which boosted sales and figures even more. How can you even compare the two?

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It definitely means what I said it means. The previous version sucked, no ifs ands about it. Also, the MMO industry expanded to a wider audience before FFXIV even came out so your comment holds no weight at all.

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Originally Posted by BlackHaloJT

I craft troll food only thing worth to craft you need to buy some?

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I see you hated this game so much that you have almost every job to 50? If you disliked it so badly, as you say, why did you keep going?

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

It definitely means what I said it means. The previous version sucked, no ifs ands about it.

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Thanks for your OPINION then. Though I don't think anyone else will be thanking you......