[dev1022]Auto Attack and States

I like the BS as it is now. :)

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Originally Posted by Phenidate

With the addition of auto attack there is very little reason to manage active and passive states now.

Stop making us manage our active and passive states to enter and leave combat. Have the system do it automatically as was done in FFXI, and is done any any other MMO that differentiates between being in and out of combat. This responsibility should not be forced onto the player.

Presently this is one of the most awkward things in game to manage. Why is it we have to micromanage what state we are in anyway? Is there a reason we don't have a 'start attack' button, and when combat is over we put our weapon away?

So please.

Change the system so that what is essentially drawing and sheathing your weapon happens automatically.
When we want to auto attack, provide a button to hit so we start beating its face in.

This way hopefully starting and finishing a fight with a monster would go like this:

• Target monster.
  
• Press [start attack key] or activate ability.
  
• Weapon is draw, attacks go off.
  
• Combat commences and eventually finishes.
  
• After a brief delay the game places you back into passive move.

Some probably want to point out that active mode is important to keep mages from constantly regenerating MP while they cast. The solution then is simple: After casting a spell the system keeps the players weapon out for a few seconds. Long enough so that it overlaps the time period within which you would need to cast another spell in combat. If you are waiting longer than that between spell casts then its about the same as it is right now where a caster would change back to passive mode to regenerate a handful of MP mid fight anyways.

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unless the switch was very fast, it would get annoying being put into passive mode automatically in multi-mob scenarios like behest or dungeons.

yay! haste =D

I don't think that toggling Passive/Active states should be automatic. It helps with camping and reaction time if you can do it on your own.

You can either:
A) Target a mob, ready an ability, wait to automatically enter active mode, use the ability
-or-
B) Enter active mode before you need to, ready/use an ability

The delay isn't HUGE, but it's enough to where not having it can increase your effectiveness.

Also, you won't auto attack if you don't have your skill bar up, so you can enter active mode, approach an enemy, then just stand there if you want. You won't swing until you hit enter again to bring up your skill bar. Granted, if you don't know your hotkeys, you're going to have a harder time than someone who can hit the hotkey and back out of the skill bar.

For mages trying to sleep, hit the sleep hotkey, enter for your target, then just hit ESC to back out of the skill bar and you won't attack your sleeping target.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

Lol in no way shape or form will they ever merge and in no way other than like I mentioned before the very raw basics is the game play going to take after FFXI, It hasn't yet and it shows 0 signs of doing so, if anything it is going in the complete opposite direction of FFXI. (I play both so I not just spewing forth false information, Darrgoth on Asura) I do understand some of the things in FFXI that is changing that make you say that but they already said the two games are totally different and will remain so, both are getting new content etc.. Have you read the revamps on all the jobs in FFXI? All they are practically doing is buffing all classes and giving them new abilities it's the same thing they have done several times already yet they are putting a fancy name with the process now.

I respect peoples opinions but you are speaking blasphemous words and things that make no sense. Some of the better qualities of FFXI might shed some light on FFXIV where needed but the two will never be one in any way.

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No need to prove me you're playing FFXI still. If you say so why would i doubt it?

The thing about FFXI is that its dying. Half of the servers died and they're embracing the casual gameplay there now because SE also knows its dying. Soon enough FFXI will be in a situation that or they merge both and keep the active player base of FFXI or they shutdown and lose those players. I know people will come with all that yadda yaddad about everquest sttill being with servers up and w/e...but the thing is the amount of servers needed for the game. If the player base shrink too much it won't be able to keep the server/support costs of it.

Anyway, when, in a few years, you see this announcement at POL and lodestone, keep in mind i called it! ^^b Because it is the most logical way of boosting FFXIV and keeping FFXI going at full power.

I'm for removal of manually activating active/passive mode.

I disagree.
Sure they can make initial engageing easier with autoattack.
But i like the funtion of active/passive. Such as: running around town with my weapon out.

I too use a differant "0 Ability Fight" action in slot number 1 so i can easily push one button to active, lock and start auto attacking.

I hope they implement haste gear way before implement arcanist with haste. I just don't think they'll restructure the classes to give haste, maybe a job will have haste? WHM? idk. I just hope we could maybe add haste on gear through materia? I know its for stats already present on gear, but that doesn't mean they can't expand on this later. I just wonder how long we'll have to wait before any haste is implemented.

Question about haste:
Will haste effect everything we do, weapon delay obviously which effects auto attack speed, but will it also increase spell casting as with xi you could haste yourself first and go through the buff roto faster?

I think it's so pointless having a dedicated button to control passive/active mode. Much more I think it's stupid to have such modes in the first place. Let us simply engage a target and disengage automatically when it's dead.

Why is it SE refuses to bring over the successful bits that worked from XI? Ugh..

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Originally Posted by Tempestmoon

There is an easy way around that. There are different targeting modes, first you just select the enemy, you can walk right up to it in active mode and you won't attack, BUT you can use your weapon skill.

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let's stop here, the issue i am presenting does not concern the use of a keyboard; which, yes, is as simple as everyone keeps saying. if i had the ability to select any skill from the action bar without using the d-pad i would not have to lock-on to a target first, and i would have no issue with the auto-attack and could initiate a skill with no problems.

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If you hit enter again on the mob it locks on and you start auto-attack

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right, and locking onto a target* is a prerequisite to being able to select anything on the action bar with the d-pad. so there is no way of getting around auto-attack prior to using a skill. grab a controller and try it, if you can figure out a way and i'm just being grumpy, i'll more than gladly stop whining.

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Originally Posted by Serio

You can always run behind the mob while you're fighting it. I use pounce mid-battle while soloing all the time. All you do is run past the mob behind it right after you basic attack and smash the WS before the mob has enough time to turn around. On the devs part, they could at least set a longer timer before TP starts to degenerate if players really want to open up with WS.

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oh i know, i'd just not like to have to worry about incaps mid battle. it's never as reliable once the target is engaged.

anyway, i hate to keep complaining about it, its just that i got too used to my method over the last 8 months, and now it feels clumsy and undependable. i do appreciate the comments. i have a feeling SE will fix this and i'll feel silly for making such a big stink over this for so long.

* i suppose 'locking' on in itself is a bit erroneous. you do not have to 'lockon' to use the d-pad to navigate the action bar but merely bring up the three yellow arrow icons. this stage of targeting presents the described problems, i just wasn't accurately using the terminology. since the d-pad cannot control both the cycling of targets and the action bar, you have to target a mob to be able to switch into a mode which allows access to control the action bar. the stage at which control toggles from normal cycling to targeting also is the same stage at which auto-attack is triggered, hence the inability to use skills while using a controller without auto-attack being in the way.

It should stay the way it is. People who are prepared (as in readying their weapon) should have an advantage over people who get attacked without realising it at first (only to draw their weapon afterwards). If this game needs something it's more tactic/ skillful play, not less. :D

i would like to point something. when fighting monsters that regularly use Shock Spikes (ex: gnat), it seem there is a problem with the character attacking movement after attacking the monster and get stun effect. immediately the 2nd attack is executed without character attack motion, i was unable to execute any other action to cure myself, even continuously pressing the action button (second wind). The only option is to move away and heal myself.

i know maybe it's not directly related to auto attack but dev team need to address it.

i thought there is a problem with my PC but after testing it on different PC, it happen again.

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Originally Posted by ReapKarmah

I think it's so pointless having a dedicated button to control passive/active mode. Much more I think it's stupid to have such modes in the first place. Let us simply engage a target and disengage automatically when it's dead.

Why is it SE refuses to bring over the successful bits that worked from XI? Ugh..

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I agree completely, an attack system from FFXI would make much more sence you would be able to keep your TP unless you rest (no auto rest), mage classes can cast without hitting it and the system would feel and look much better

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ReapKarmah

I think it's so pointless having a dedicated button to control passive/active mode. Much more I think it's stupid to have such modes in the first place. Let us simply engage a target and disengage automatically when it's dead.

Why is it SE refuses to bring over the successful bits that worked from XI? Ugh..

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reading your comment i have to say....i ...i love you Reap
and agree 100% !!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phenidate

With the addition of auto attack there is very little reason to manage active and passive states now.

Stop making us manage our active and passive states to enter and leave combat. Have the system do it automatically as was done in FFXI, and is done any any other MMO that differentiates between being in and out of combat. This responsibility should not be forced onto the player.

Presently this is one of the most awkward things in game to manage. Why is it we have to micromanage what state we are in anyway? Is there a reason we don't have a 'start attack' button, and when combat is over we put our weapon away?

So please.

Change the system so that what is essentially drawing and sheathing your weapon happens automatically.
When we want to auto attack, provide a button to hit so we start beating its face in.

This way hopefully starting and finishing a fight with a monster would go like this:

• Target monster.
  
• Press [start attack key] or activate ability.
  
• Weapon is draw, attacks go off.
  
• Combat commences and eventually finishes.
  
• After a brief delay the game places you back into passive move.

Some probably want to point out that active mode is important to keep mages from constantly regenerating MP while they cast. The solution then is simple: After casting a spell the system keeps the players weapon out for a few seconds. Long enough so that it overlaps the time period within which you would need to cast another spell in combat. If you are waiting longer than that between spell casts then its about the same as it is right now where a caster would change back to passive mode to regenerate a handful of MP mid fight anyways.

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It would be nice but i think they are avoiding this maybe because they would have to change code i can't say that for sure though, maybe it will become jump function. I'd also like to see the moving on foot characteristics changed i think its stupid that i can't full sprint in a circles because the diagonals make you walk or something like that.

Wouldn't the removal of this function preclude mages ability to leave combat to generate resting MP? The party would be "engaged" so we would lose the mechanic of specific party members leaving combat to allow for HP / MP regeneration...thats no good.

i say leave it all as it is just remove the recast timers for our standard melee attacks.

"oh i swung my sword, oh no, it cant do it again for 30 seconds when in real life it only takes 2"

its pretty retarded imo.

This is the one of the last two "BIG" things on my list of "...things SE needs to fix before I'll commit to ffxiv full time". I just don't understand it....they have a perfect working mmo in ffxi, why did they need to re-invent the wheel? Do they NOT like money? Passive/Active mode needs to go -- if I have to enter a combat stance to cure myself one more time *&%^*%^#*

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Originally Posted by Xenolis

This is the one of the last two "BIG" things on my list of "...things SE needs to fix before I'll commit to ffxiv full time". I just don't understand it....they have a perfect working mmo in ffxi, why did they need to re-invent the wheel? Do they NOT like money? Passive/Active mode needs to go -- if I have to enter a combat stance to cure myself one more time *&%^*%^#*

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So pro-removing active stance. Change to be exactly like FFXI please.