Let's make this viral- Improving our community

It's just wowitis. MMO's got popular this brought them to a larger audience, mostly wow did this. With a larger group comes more conflict and with the anonymity of the internet more _______. There is nothing that can be done to fix this.

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Originally Posted by stupiddog

Sorry, I guess I used the wrong term. I think the word I am looking for would be offense or libel (in the judicial sense)

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Everything in your post would be considered harassment and last I checked harassment is against the ToS.

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Originally Posted by Kerberon

It's just wowitis.

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It's been around alot longer than WoW, it's just the random duty finder and lack of needing to play nice with others outside of them make it easy to troll and have zero blowback from the community.

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Originally Posted by Macka

Everything in your post would be considered harassment and last I checked harassment is against the ToS.

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I agree with you that all of these do. And if all players (and the GMs) would, too, I am sure the problem would be much smaller.

However, what makes something count as harassment and what not will differ to a great extent depending on who you ask. If this forum had a "poll" function, I predict that a number of players may find some or even all these points perfectly acceptable.

Bottom line: The term harassment is such a rubbery thing, one can use it to label everything one does not like as such.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

It's been around alot longer than WoW, it's just the random duty finder and lack of needing to play nice with others outside of them make it easy to troll and have zero blowback from the community.

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Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought wow was the first to do multi-server random dungeon queues in such a manner.

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Originally Posted by Kerberon

There is nothing that can be done to fix this.

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Wrong.

There's much that can be done. However, it requires effort on part of each and every individual. Taking on a self-defeating attitude like this is the only thing stopping you from being part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

You don't have to be a saint. You don't even necessarily have to say much. A simple word of encouragement or positive acknowledgment to someone new, or to someone who's hit a snag, can work wonders in turning things around for them, and goodwill inevitably spreads.

This is a cooperative game. There are no factions. PvP is an accessory at best. Another player's progress costs you absolutely nothing -- and yes, this even goes for loot. Someone gets something you also wanted? It was never yours to begin with and you are no more entitled to it than they are. If you think there's any real competition, you're deluding yourself.

The entire game is built with collective progress and effort in mind, and it is at its most enjoyable when everyone has grasped this.

What I did was to prepare a few macros with the shortest possible (but IMHO still useful) explanations for each boss. This way, I can quickly serve them to anyone who is new in a fight/dungeon, and all it takes for me to do is to activate the macro. As far as I can tell, that little service is well-received. I can share them if anyone is interested in copying or improving the texts. (Just need to find a way to extract them from the PS4 :-/ )

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Originally Posted by Mahri

Wrong.

There's much that can be done. However, it requires effort on part of each and every individual. Taking on a self-defeating attitude like this is the only thing stopping you from being part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

You don't have to be a saint. You don't even necessarily have to say much. A simple word of encouragement or positive acknowledgment to someone new, or to someone who's hit a snag, can work wonders in turning things around for them, and goodwill inevitably spreads.

This is a cooperative game. There are no factions. PvP is an accessory at best. Another player's progress costs you absolutely nothing -- and yes, this even goes for loot. Someone gets something you also wanted? It was never yours to begin with and you are no more entitled to it than they are. If you think there's any real competition, you're deluding yourself.

The entire game is built with collective progress and effort in mind, and it is at its most enjoyable when everyone has grasped this.

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My being nice does not stop trolls, or trollish behavior. My or your behavior does nothing to control or influence people that would behave in such a manner. You can't change them, the battle can't be won. When mmo users decline back to the core users that used to play before the population of mmo's surged, then you will see the problem getting solved, not till then.

I agree the Duty Finder helps breed rude/inconsiderate people, but I don't think this feature will go away, ever... it has its pros but it has a big con which is exactly the lack of reputation importance. How could we go about this flaw in the game design, how could SE help improve this? What can we do to help?

One suggestion I've read somewhere in the forums was for the misbehaving people to never get grouped up with others if they've been reported several times and instead get grouped up with people with the same bad behaviour. Not sure if I read this officially, but I think we will be able to blacklist people across servers soon , though, will we not get grouped with these blacklisted people then?

I, too, have ran into a few jerks before which made me distasteful of DF, and even more so of PF, that I don't like the thought of having to farm sold/myth and have been avoiding it since. I bet there are many players who are on the same boat. This results into less interaction with other players. Which is not a good thing for trying to build a community.

Hell, even at low level dungeons, I've seen tanks saying "this is my first time, bear with me" first thing, instead of a Hi. It's like they are already being defensive, scared of being pointed at, which is sad.

The only time I have fun doing dungeons is when I'm running the low level ones because there are new people and they seem more chill and social, which I like because then I feel relaxed and can focus on my job without being stressed and can chat for once. Just having a good time like it should be.

I support the plea 100%.

I try my best to foster a nice community by doing my part. Although the game itself doesn't provide much avenues towards it, if you make the effort, it shows and it improves everyone. Although most of the things I do are on the spur, and without planning, I hope it benefits the people I help. Some examples are:

Open World:
- If a new person in a city /s or /y for help, I usually respond and offer to guide them. If they do, I typically take them around the city, help them unlock all the aethernets, while explaining a few things they will learn eventually but better to know beforehand (ability to switch classes, retainers and inn rooms, guildleves challenge log hunting log). After that, I give them around 5-10k depending on how tight on money I am myself, just to help them get started (I'm not much of a crafter so I rarely have HQ stuff to give).
- Popping by a FATE, and someone trying to complete it, I usually go and help them out. As a WHM as well, I regularly un-level sync and apply a regen/heal on a tank/dps who's taking lots of damage.
- With the alexandrite maps, if I happen to pass by someone struggling to complete it (solo) I switch out to WHM/SCH and heal them so they can finish it faster. Have had around six of seven of these, and all of the people I helped were grateful.

In duty:
- If someone in the duty I'm in is new, I usually observe them over a period to see how well they were doing on their job/class, and if they weren't performing well/didn't know rotations, I did my best to explain them and help them out. Example of this was two new BLMs in Brayflox, who weren't using AoE's optimally. I taught them the AoE rotation, and by the end, they were happy.
- Passing on gear that someone in a party requires/needs. I can forgo 850 seals so someone can replace their ilvl48 aetherial jewellery with Darklight.
- Communicating and explaining fights to new people. It helps immensely to give a brief run through to those who want to know.

There are more, but those come to mind. I support any attempt to make our community better and more acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Jacost

Even so, it's a fight worth fighting.

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Definitely, but what Jynx says is the truth.

Nevertheless, I've spent my best moments in the game learning from Jynx himself, from our FC master too and everyone else.
Even now, I'm doing my best to uphold this spirit in what's left of our FC.

When the players get to a point where all they have to do is rinse and repeat the same content over and over again, they either become irascible or just quit.

Unfortunately, this game is deep in the path of rinse & repeat content, grind and other meaningless tasks to keep its playerbase "busy".

We need to change our gameplay when it happens and seek fun through interaction with other players. That's the least we can do. As for the best, we need to be vocal and tell the devs what we want and what we don't want.

I was in that Facebook group with the guy who got the TV. Was actually legitimately heartwarming seeing his posts of him picking up the TV, setting it up etc. Genuinely nice guy.

One thing our static has taken to doing this past week ( because we ALWAYS have someone who is late >.> ) was to queue for random "lower-tier" content while we wait for the "late one", such as Cape Westwind or Ifrit HM. One lucky DPS (preferably someone newish, though we came across a couple clearly just using trials roulette) gets to smash the fights, and have 7 commendations offloaded on to them xD

(Not entirely a good deed, I have to admit. Ifrit HM we decided since it was so old, we would try to make it challenging by all refusing to move. At all. No dodging charges, no dodging eruptions/plumes. This was funny until a large number of us were punted right next to each other. Needless to say, eruptions wrecked us xD
We still made it through, albeit with 1 Tank, Healer and DPS standing.... but the PUG got 7 commendations so i'm sure that makes up for what we put them through, right? ....Right?)

I'll drop this here from a FC mate I consider a friend...
http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...6/blog/998851/

Now on to the topic at heart... I must say I didn't have many bad experiences so far(and I've been in here since beta 3 - that was last year around this time wasn't it?). But I have done my best to foster good relation with everyone I meet. I've helped healing random people at fates, DPS help and so on in openworld. And in instances instead of complaining about others I tried to help them if they wanted to listen - not everyone always does but enough do to make this worth it.


I always start any instance with a hello/hi/lo/whatever greeting one wants to use. If there are people that start chatting then great else will just go through it silently with a gg/gj and a bb at the end. It's sad but not everyone wishes to socialize - that's why I try to bring a friend if I'm doing something like that so that we can atleast have some banter and then maybe draw in the other two people into socializing.

But yes there are times when the community is getting toxic - reading the PF most days is rather depressing to the point I just don't open it up anymore(it's generally filled with stuff like wipe = kick, death = kick, lag = kick, exp only - show achievment etc... crap). Even people that join a run that clearly states "training" will go apeshit if a wipe happens on the simplest mechanic. Don't join such PFs then if you don't have the patience to wipe for an hour - because let's face it when at the start someone explains half the fight saying that's our goal for today - you shouldn't be expecting a clear anytime soon.

We all will complain about someone at one point or another... but do so somewhere where they can't hear you. Put it in FC chat or LS or start your own empty LS and release your frustration there. But help the people you are with at getting better and achieve their goal without coming out like an arse.

in a perfect world we would all be respectful of others, in a perfect world we would all acknowledge that we do not all come from same background, same ethnic and same part of the world and with the same experience in life and be of the same age...in a perfect world we would all be happy and the like.

I know I am the worst player that ever walked this planet, thus nothing that others can say will affect me much, nor does it affect me that people dont know or cant or fail, it doesnt affect me to have to do 100x the same dungeon over and over again because we wipped so many times. At the end, it boils down to what YOU as individual can do, not much what the others can do or want to do, because here is more a matter of want rather then can. People hide behind their computer and in total inpunity and dont have to have consequences for their words or actions, therefore they can say and do whatever they want nobody is going to do anything, that is the sad reality.

In the end though, what does it matter ? as long as you can do what you have to do enjoy the game for yourself and not because of the others, it is unimporant and people acting like arse are unimportant, they just are like the breeze they are there a moment and pass to move away the next..impact on your life *zero* unless you let them and give them the power to affect you....

your link, Ruskie, is exactly it, the one that posted gave full power to that guy to put him down and that is on his shoulders, words mean nothing especially from perfect strangers, and it boils down to.. how much power you give others THAT part is in your hands, once you understand this...the rest is easy and everything logical. Those that find it fun to insult, deam harrass others are just weak people very weak that they only have one mean to show how powerful they are is to bully others in a virtual game when they would just be chickens in other circumstances, such is life, just remember do not give any power to anyone else, your life and enjoyment is only yours and doesnt depend on anybody that you havent chosent to be with.

As for helping, I help if I can those that ask for it....or I have identified as really being in need of help...otherwise...it would spoil their game in my opinion and that is not something I want to be responsible for. I personally feel at unease when someone wants to give me material I dont believe in gifts just out of pure goodness and in the back of my mind I wonder what the guy wants from me .....one day that gift out of pure generosity will be thrown back at you and you will be forced, if you have some honour, to repay it...and you may not like it.
Mei

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Originally Posted by Kerberon

My being nice does not stop trolls, or trollish behavior. My or your behavior does nothing to control or influence people that would behave in such a manner. You can't change them, the battle can't be won.

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There is no "win" state in the objective. To think of it in those terms is failing to grasp social dynamics entirely.

What is sought here is something that will always, always require continued effort, and everyone owes that effort to everyone else.

I am sorry for losing my patience yesterday in Cutters Cry HM. I gave a BLM a bad time after wiping a few times. He said my advice was good but the delivery was bad. For my bad delivery, I am sorry.

He ended up leaving after we wiped to final boss. I did apologize to him, though before then.

I promise to be more kind in the future. Thanks for this post OP.

I agree with a lot of her post, except for passing on gear because we want dem seals. If we're a job that can need them, we put in just as much work as the next guy. Need all the way~.

There are more efficient ways to get seals than dungeon gear. Just do GC quests in Mor Dhona for hour and you'll nearly hit the cap. Some people might actually need the gear.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

I agree with a lot of her post, except for passing on gear because we want dem seals. If we're a job that can need them, we put in just as much work as the next guy. Need all the way~.

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This is a common sentiment. While it is your right, it does nothing to foster a sense of friendly community. It actually does the opposite. I myself, wouldn't need on things in the past if they weren't an actual upgrade. Even if I wanted them for other reasons. But then I realized my imaginary rules of loot etiquette were being followed by no one but myself. I got a little bitter missing out on things I wanted constantly (key word: wanted) and so I decided it was time to give others a taste of their own medicine. Rolling on everything, even if only to deny other people gear they might have needed because I was frustrated at being denied myself. (but hey, dem seals doe, right?) And by people who by all appearances, didn't really *need* the gear as an upgrade. (Take this with a grain of salt. I know it was their right, and they could have had other reasons to need on it).

The point I'm trying to make is "Need> greeders" inspired this behavior in me. It didn't exist before. After being exposed to it, I became that which I despised. And I've spread it even further.

It's this very behavior I want to reverse.

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Originally Posted by Kerberon

My being nice does not stop trolls, or trollish behavior. My or your behavior does nothing to control or influence people that would behave in such a manner. You can't change them, the battle can't be won. When mmo users decline back to the core users that used to play before the population of mmo's surged, then you will see the problem getting solved, not till then.

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http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or...418366d5cc.jpg

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Originally Posted by Jacost

There are more efficient ways to get seals than dungeon gear. Just do GC quests in Mor Dhona for hour and you'll nearly hit the cap. Some people might actually need the gear.

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Or I can 'need' while doing my daily roulette's and get to eat my cake too. For anyone to say a party member (who put in just as much weight as others) shouldn't roll need on gear for seals.. you're totally welcome to your opinion. I just have a different opinion.

I do, however, agree with most of the OP's other points/post.

Do be reminded that your (our) job is not to stop trolls/ elistists/ haters/ whatever. Your job is to be nice to transform data center A into data center B (see below):

Data center A: 20% nasty ones, 70% indifferent ones, 10% nice ones
Data center B: 20% nasty ones, 50% indifferent ones, 30% nice ones

As a side note, do not spoon-feed newcomers by showering them with dungeon gear through random duty finder (you can craft for them, fund them and gear them through full pre-mades though). If you do that, expectations will change and the atma/ mirror drop rates will hit them even harder than it already is (illustrated below, unrealistic occurrence intended).

"By the time it took me unlock roulette: expert I already got my full darklight set." Later...
"Screw this game, 10 runs and no mirror for me. Lost mirror rolls twice to some idiots who won't help me gear up."

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

Hell, even at low level dungeons, I've seen tanks saying "this is my first time, bear with me" first thing, instead of a Hi. It's like they are already being defensive, scared of being pointed at, which is sad.

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That does not necessarily have to be scared or defensive. In fact (as a DPS) I really appreciate if a player (esp. a tank) is honest when he is not yet fully competent in his role. The other players can incorporate that in their play, e.g. as a summoner, if I know that a tank might lose aggro, I can keep my finger near the "switch from Garuda-Egi to Titan-Egi" button, which might prevent a wipe. That does not mean that the new tank is freed from his duty to play to the best of his abilities; but if he does make a mistake and the party survives nevertheless, I consider it a win-win for both sides.

Or if a player says "I am new in this dungeon", other players know that they should stop before a boss encounter and explain it to prevent a wipe. Really, it is good communication and saves everyone the frustration.

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Originally Posted by stupiddog

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Oh, I meant everyone else said Hi but her. :) It's fine she said that, just surprised me she didn't even say hi at all, and that that was all she said during the whole run. I thought she was too nervous to enjoy the run because of how mean people can be, since I got that impression. Usually you say hi, then the next thing. I hope that wasn't the case back then. ^^

Well know atleast a few people that get extremely nervous when running with people they aren't familiar with. Especially when with a class they aren't familiar with or rarely use. Or when experiencing something new. They will function normaly with a known group but as soon as there is one new person they need to adjust. This is why I enjoyed the endless wait pre DF. I could chat with everyone waiting there and actually get to know some of them that we might even run together. I ran quite a few dungeons that way though... Was near a dungeon and shouted around for ppl to join in - usually got a few. And I've met great people along the way. Some still on my friends list.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

Usually you say hi, then the next thing. I hope that wasn't the case back then. ^^

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Oh, ok, sorry, I got that wrong. :-)

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Originally Posted by Leira_Raine

However, to my surprise, that person was halfway through the golem and turned right around to avoid autoattacking which stupefied me at first but I took the chance.

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I like this one...could have been me too as I'm a PLD on Hyperion and I always did that!

I would say I'm guilty of being well lets say mean from time to time. But it's not usually right away. I don't mind typing out advice or tips. The problem is when someone is told to do something, and simply cannot. If it's a tougher instance, a little more understandable, but Pharos first boss, with the gun ability (long thin rectangle). You get hit once ok mistakes happen you get hit every time we have a problem.

Lets face it, the reason we see so many people get angry over this content so quickly is because it's been out for long enough that people should know it. Even my friend (about a month new) is up to par on Brayflox speed runs.