Is it against the ToC to sell carries?

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Originally Posted by Velo_Vandore

Thanks, but not really :P I easily understand why people sell the runs, but not why people buy them. What are they trying to achieve when nothing is waiting for them after turn 9? The joy of playing the game is surely lost to be carried through the final content?

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Some people may not have time or have a job that prevent them to have a static and might prefer to farm some gils and buy it.
I don't know how many do they sell T9, 2 millions maybe ? that's not very hard to farm ( if you are willing to farm materias to sell and you don't use your money for other things it's not an issue )

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Originally Posted by lololink

Some people may not have time or have a job that prevent them to have a static and might prefer to farm some gils and buy it.
I don't know how many do they sell T9, 2 millions maybe ? that's not very hard to farm ( if you are willing to farm materias to sell and you don't use your money for other things it's not an issue )

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I also work, and have a family, so I understand not having time. Even though I wouldn't like to myself, I also understand people buying say a "Titan HM" run to get the relic and move on. What I can't understand is why they buy the Coil 2 run?

It seems like they forgot why they play. The fun should be in the challenge not simply clearing content even if you're KO'ed half the fight and carried completely. For those buying a Coil 2 run, why not just watch it on youtube if you only wish to see it and not participate in beating it. Or maybe you would like a button to just press and you get the clear status and some loot? I'm sorry to be so patronizing, but I really don't understand it and feel sorry for players who don't know why they are even playing but just get caught up in an obsession to clear all content and obtain all loot by any means.

Again, it could be me just being ignorant here, so very open to any explanations. Maybe it's more to do with players who are good enough themselves to clear the content, but tired of waiting on a competent group?

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

Being cautious and selling runs only to legit buyers isn't the OP's intention, the OP merely wanted a statement by the devs to indemnify them.

They aren't gonna do background checks, they'd take any gil, even if its from RMT sources as long as they have plausible deniability of possibly knowing it.

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Lol well hopefully everything works out cuz it'd be a real bummer if you know the gil got confiscated and other stuff due to GMs assuming players charging 2 digit millions are asking for trouble.

people are usually not buying the clear, they are buying loot from the carries.

ie: they may have been pugging t7 and 8 for a long time and have not gotten any loot due to RNG.
They can now pay us $ and get guaranteed loot.

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Originally Posted by TheTank

people are usually not buying the clear, they are buying loot from the carries.

ie: they may have been pugging t7 and 8 for a long time and have not gotten any loot due to RNG.
They can now pay us $ and get guaranteed loot.

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I see, thanks. So this would be loot to get them ready for T9? That does make sense.

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Originally Posted by Velo_Vandore

I also work, and have a family, so I understand not having time. Even though I wouldn't like to myself, I also understand people buying say a "Titan HM" run to get the relic and move on. What I can't understand is why they buy the Coil 2 run?

It seems like they forgot why they play. The fun should be in the challenge not simply clearing content even if you're KO'ed half the fight and carried completely. For those buying a Coil 2 run, why not just watch it on youtube if you only wish to see it and not participate in beating it. Or maybe you would like a button to just press and you get the clear status and some loot? I'm sorry to be so patronizing, but I really don't understand it and feel sorry for players who don't know why they are even playing but just get caught up in an obsession to clear all content and obtain all loot by any means.

Again, it could be me just being ignorant here, so very open to any explanations. Maybe it's more to do with players who are good enough themselves to clear the content, but tired of waiting on a competent group?

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Watching a video from youtube and being there seeing the fight with your own eyes with your own characters are two different things. Althought it's something i'd like to do i understand why some people wants to do this, because they are not hardcore player and don't want to spent hours on end on a fight and things like that or buying the loot, even if it surely not feel as rewarding as doing the fight yourself it must still be rewarding considering the time you took to farm gils to get to this.

You could read for yourself...

http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...1&tag=users_en

Just need to use some common sense. The average person isn't going to have 10mil to drop for a carry. Your Coil lockout is valuable, but you also have to be realistic with your prices. You probably also need to get some info on your potential customer, such as messaging people within their FC to see if, to the best of their knowledge, that they legitimately made their money instead of sourcing RMT.

I don't think you'll ever 100% be able to know whether a person's money is legit or not, so there will always be some risk involved. You just have to do your due diligence and take the necessary precautions to figure out whether the buyer has a legit source of money.

As others have said as well, I don't think GMs/CMs are going to give you some kind of assurance that what you're doing is ok and that you won't be liable if you receive some money that wasn't obtained legitimately.

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Originally Posted by TheTank

What is too expensive though?

I can't control where these people get their gil from ><

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They did it with housing. If people used money bought from RMT (even if it had changed hands before it got to them), then they were scrapping the houses bought with it. This is the main reason I would always be weary of receiving large amounts of gil from randomers.

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Originally Posted by Galliano

They did it with housing. If people used money bought from RMT (even if it had changed hands before it got to them), then they were scrapping the houses bought with it. This is the main reason I would always be weary of receiving large amounts of gil from randomers.

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That's a bit of a different matter though. They could easily do that without repercussion because it's a transaction between one player and the system. When it deals with player to player, it's a much more touchy subject to tackle. The reality is that this is most likely one of those "we don't encourage it, but we will not take action upon those who do it" sort of things. It's not quite in the spirit of the game to be so openly carried through current content, afterall. In one perspective, it's similar to paying for a crafters services (or the services of any one player really). There most likely won't be an official response on the matter, as that would only encourage the behavior of both parties, but it's not exactly a forbidden thing to do. You are right though in that people should still be weary.

You're allowed to do it. But I would worry about transactions that large. Usually when something that large happens SE has a shoot first ask questions later type approach. During the start a lot of Titan HM sellers got gil stripped because it was RMT gil and never returned. Knew a lot of people that quit because of it.

All I can think is I made a lot of gil selling teleports in FFXI (way way back) and I needed that gil. What does this game have to spend a lot of gil on tho? In other words why would you want to do this?

the current SE precedent is that if SE decides too much RMT gil is in the system, they will clear it from the system, regardless if the person who currently has the gil is RMT or not (they have already done this, and have not stated they would never do it again) - so, not just you, but ANYONE with gil is at risk of losing their gil at anytime SE see's fit to take it until such time as SE states otherwise.

Im pretty sure its not against the rules, but like others have said, be careful the gil you're paid hasnt come from RMTs. People have been suspended and stripped of their gil they made legitimately, because the gil they were paid with by other people was obtained illegitimately.

Although, don't go doing what a lot of groups were doing back in the early days with titan, and going into other people's runs to intentionally ruin them and make people feel compelled to buy wins. Im preeeetty sure that would count as harrassment and against the rules.

theres been threads of ppl who've had their gil wiped, and no amount of white knight self proclamations got them their gil back. Do it at your own risk.

Also not to mention, SE did ban carry services on FFXI because it gotten so bad especially with Abyssea runs, so if SE feels that people are buying gils to pay for carry services then, the results will have a same outcome, carry services can get you banned from FFXIV (just a penny for thought)

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Originally Posted by Galliano

They did it with housing. If people used money bought from RMT (even if it had changed hands before it got to them), then they were scrapping the houses bought with it. This is the main reason I would always be weary of receiving large amounts of gil from randomers.

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They threatened, but can you give us an example of someone actually losing their house? Almost all 5 wards of mist is full on tonberry and I'm sure that one way or another gil was filtered through RMT on many of those purchases.

I'm pretty sure that a fair bit of the GIL currently in-game is obtained through RMT.

ie: When 3 star crafting came out -
I'm fairly certain that a portion of the GIL used to buy the 3 star crafted gear from the MB is through RMT.
What would SE do about that RMT gil used to buy those crafted gear then?
Wipe it all out because the people who placed the gear on the MB didn't know better?

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

theres been threads of ppl who've had their gil wiped, and no amount of white knight self proclamations got them their gil back. Do it at your own risk.

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Who have allegedly got their gil wiped for mercing. The problem is that this is rarely ever the case.

Let's look at this scenario. Bob needs money. Bob buys some gil. Later on, Bob gets his gil wiped. What is Bob going to say? Is he going to say "I'm sorry I bought gil, please give me it back." or is he going to make up an excuse in the hopes of getting it back?

It's very similar to the Diablo 3 "hacking" fiasco that happened awhile back, where people said their game was "hacked" even though they had protected it with an authenticator. After a few days of Blizzard checking into it, Blizzard came and stated that not a single person who reported being hacked actually had an authenticator on their account BEFORE they were hacked.

It's the internet. People make stuff up to save face.

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Originally Posted by TheTank

What would SE do about that RMT gil used to buy those crafted gear then?
Wipe it all out because the people who placed the gear on the MB didn't know better?

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If it's anything like WoW's system, they'll check where the gil came from, where it went, what was done with it, and chat logs between the characters. People who knew that the gil is from RMT are in danger of losing their item, their gil, or their account. People who did NOT know are not held responsible and can keep whatever it is.

Example of NOT being responsible: I use a bot and gain a sum of gil. I give this gil to a company to sell. This company sells it to Bob. Bob uses the gil to craft something and sell that item. Timmy buys that item, without knowing it came from RMT. I am at risk, the company is at risk, and Bob is at risk, but Timmy is not.

Example of being responsible: Same as before, except Bob uses the gil to buy a merc run. He says "yeah I had to buy some gil to afford it" or something like that to the merc runners. It's now up to the merc runners to stop the transaction and report Bob, because now that they know that gil was gained "illegally", they will be at risk if they accept it.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

Who have allegedly got their gil wiped for mercing. The problem is that this is rarely ever the case.

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This did happen and some of those banned (later ban lifted) were legit.

I was not a merc, but a crafter.

SE has a zero tolerance policy on RMT, had we actually bought gil would would be perma banned, not just suspended and gil stripped.

Just because it's the internet, does not mean everyone is a liar.

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Originally Posted by JemC

All I can think is I made a lot of gil selling teleports in FFXI (way way back) and I needed that gil. What does this game have to spend a lot of gil on tho? In other words why would you want to do this?

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If I were to take a guess:
- Personal housing, when it comes out
- Dibs on the first set of crafted gears for the next tier of endgame content
- World/server first stuff

When something new comes up, demand for certain items go up, and so prices go up as well. This gives the mercs the buffer they need to achieve their goals. The cycle repeats again when they have the new stuff down on farm, and are willing to sell runs, to prepare for the next set of content. Those who were world/server first Second Coil clears in the current patch would most likely have fully melded i90 gear, which even at this point of time would be expensive and difficult to make.

Gil isn't super valuable in this game, but it has its uses.

I've made a pretty large sum of gil legitimately via crafting/spirit binding. I wouldn't assume everyone who has large chunks of gil got it from RMTs.

I'm in a linkshell that has groups that sells primals. Been in there for along time and NO ONE has complained about getting their gil taken away.

i will say that: SE need to take a stance firm against this. Merc generally ask really high sum of gil and you can't believe everybody to have earn it legally. indeed some have gain this gils really hard. but that don't change the fact that merc are part of the problem. they are saying, we have no responsability into this sort of behavior but it's simply look away.

why someone need to buy gils for the game? (i'm talking about the reason there) for buy the crafting gear or... get a carry via merc. they are the principal reason of why people buy gils. crafting was nerfed because of this... but SE still left the merc alone because they are using the grey part of the ToC.

merc are simply doing money laundering by making like they are not part of the problem.

My 2 cents....

The act itself is not against the ToS. I've helped someone with their homework for gil... You can do anything you want for gil....

However!

If someone you carry just purchased a million Gil from RMT the only thing the tracker is going to see is... Player A purchased Gil and Traded it to Player B... both are now suspicious.

All of your chat logs and weather or not you carried someone could easily be a convenient cover up for you to knowingly take RMT gil third party.

Can you sell help for gil?

Of course you can!

Can you become suspicious for being traded RMT gil?

Of course you can!

High rewards always come with high risk! You could just mine like the rest of us.

I was with the initial group of 50 crafters on my server (Cactuar) so I was pretty involved with what was going on around launch. When players began using RMT to purchase two star crafted gear for ridiculous amounts, the crafters who were profiting off of these players buying gil also got caught up in SEs crackdown on RMT, typically getting their gil divided by 100. Whether or not SE will do something like that again who knows, or even at what threshold of gil, but it's something which happened in the past and could potentially happen again.