My thoughts on the Animus issue.

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Originally Posted by CrAZYVIC

I dont mind the 40 - 50 hours grind for complete the Atma weapons.

My problem with this Dam weapon are.

1.- The atma weapons do not have stats change................... After 50 hours grinding.. We do not RECEIVE A REWARD/STATS change, this is unacceptable.

2.- Farm over 13k of Tomes, is the weapon demand "More Time" and MUST THE BEST weapon in the game.

Excuse me.

How in the hell.................. "SOME" Soldiery weapons overcome the animus weapon, a weapon can take almost 80 - 100 hours complete?

Give us a stats Change in the ATMA weapons
Make the Animus weapon the weapons with Highest stats and Highest base damage in the game.

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You do understand that Animus soon to be Novus is gonna be upgraded possibly in minor and major patches right? Have you not heard the rumors of it being i115 once you hit Novus on your Animus? (Mind you Novus was Delayed, if it wasn't then some people probably would be running around showing it off while some people still don't even have a Atma wep let alone Animus) That is a higher ilvl than Sol weapon, you do understand that right?

And please tell me that you're going to not ask for changes to Atma weps and expect to do even less work while they announced they are also planning to raise the myth rates up more meaning less grinds overall depending on how much we're getting from the boost? >.>

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Originally Posted by Lillia

You do understand that Animus soon to be Novus is gonna be upgraded possibly in minor and major patches right?

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Who is asking for a nerf here?

If you understood my post. All i want IS A stat change in atma weapons and Buff in animus weapons, BEcause the efforts that take make one is insane......

of course the Animus weapons will continue in the future updates and yes the people will cream their pants, when they see 50 - 70k of tomes for the next update or some other barbarity comes to mind square xD.

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Originally Posted by CrAZYVIC

of course the Animus weapons will continue in the future updates and yes the people will cream their pants, when they see 50 - 70k of tomes for the next update or some other barbarity comes to mind square xD.

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Actually, the next upgrade for relic won't be using tomes apparently.

Glad to see so many people in this thread seeing the problems with the whole Zodiac system as it is now. The fact that there's no new content to it whatsoever. The fact that farming for atma is absolutely mind-numbing and not at all rewarding - no change to the weapon itself, can't even level other classes but hey at least we're completing challenge log entries for which the XP is also lost. The fact that we absolutely can't have any sense of progression with atma. The fact that farming for animus is not only tedious (having to be rooted to one spot for certain FATEs - that we've already got fed up with a thousand times over), but screwed up several other aspects of the game as well (together with some other changes, but yeah, myth farm runs, anyone, ppl dropping out of DF/DR runs after 2nd bosses?). And yeah, there's the hope/promise that we're gonna be able to further upgrade it - but after all this, can you honestly believe it's gonna be something meaningful?

Don't mistake "hard" with "long" please, if this really is how it was meant to be from the start, it was never intended to be hard. Practically the whole community (personally, I've seen several times more complaints than praise, latter is practically negligible in my experience) had expressed its opinion about being sick and tired with shallow and pointless FATEs, especially in the form of such long farming runs - and then we got even more out of it. Never even mind the fact that there isn't even any excitement about looks, at least, because these weapons are still the very same relics we've originally acquired. It's the laziest form of filler to be disguised as "content" I've ever seen.

Alternatives? Yeah... Leviathan Ex: many people are still having problems with Garuda Ex, nevermind Titan and Ifrit that's needed to be beaten to even unlock it - and only after that can you try to farm. 2nd Coil: many people are still having problems with completing the first ("exp only" and "voice chat or don't even come", anyone?). Add to these the fact that after having actually worked hard for the relic itself, just how many are willing to forfeit it and move on to something else, especially with the apparent regular continuations of that thing, whether it's implemented well or badly? It is sort of part of the storyline too - your storyline, your chosen path's storyline. Might be hard to believe but some even care about that.

So, indeed, all in all, the concept was nice, but the execution made it one of the worst nightmares in the game.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

Don't mistake "hard" with "long" please, if this really is how it was meant to be from the start, it was never intended to be hard. Practically the whole community (personally, I've seen several times more complaints than praise, latter is practically negligible in my experience) had expressed its opinion about being sick and tired with shallow and pointless FATEs, especially in the form of such long farming runs - and then we got even more out of it. Never even mind the fact that there isn't even any excitement about looks, at least, because these weapons are still the very same relics we've originally acquired. It's the laziest form of filler to be disguised as "content" I've ever seen.

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Actually, I've seen people ask for long term content to work towards before this content was added and some people (not a lot or all) but some do like atma farming. I personally didn't mind that the weapon didn't have any change other than coloring because I felt like it gave my relic.... Idk.. a little more life to it. I guess... considering it was only a all white bow before. But I agree the myth amount needed to Animus is steep and not really what you want to do after Atma farming.

Here's my take. This is not required content. This is hardcore content. Believe it or not - there are people who really enjoy this type of content. This isn't content preventing a player from advancing in the main storyline or seeing a new location. It should never be nerfed.

If SE nerfs the relic content they will kill weapon variety (similar to what happened in 2.0). The hardcore players will have the most up-to-date form of the relic weapon and the casuals will have the one-step-below version. I'm sorry - but I don't want to play a game where the only weapon needed is the relic weapon for all eternity.

For the love of god - don't nerf the relic questline. 95% of the game's content is casual friendly and all of the game's content can be completed with i-level 90 weapons. A questline for a single set of weapons should not be a cause of concern. Why can't casuals AND Hardcore players have content?

People fail to see that the atma quest was implemented to prevent the entire game's population from all having the same weapon (what happened in 2.0 and 2.1). Eventually - it's better for the game to cause people to stray from the Relic path. The world needs variety...not everyone running around with relics (be it the most up-to-date version or a less upgraded version).

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

Here's my take. This is not required content. This is hardcore content. Believe it or not - there are people who really enjoy this type of content. This isn't content preventing a player from advancing in the main storyline or seeing a new location. It should never be nerfed.

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Going to go out on a limb here and say you got REALLY lucky with your Atma drops. I'm still 2/12 and been farming regularly in Upper La Noscea now. Prolly put in about 40hr total in that zone and still waiting for Atma #3. Anyone who has had to farm for more then a few hours per Atma I'm certain would disagree with you about nerf. People want to know they are being rewarded for their time investment. Not playing a skinner box.

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

Eventually - it's better for the game to cause people to stray from the Relic path. The world needs variety...not everyone running around with relics.

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There would still be variation for the simple fact that for some jobs Levia EX + Mirror Weapons, or T7 + Rowena (Soldiery) weapons are better than Animus, and will probably still be better than Novus - for the reason that the stats on some of the relics (SMN/BRD particularly) are absolutely whaff for those jobs.

Also by the time 2.1 and EX Primals rolled around, there were plenty of people running around with Rowena (EX Primal) weapons and Allagan weapons. Heck there were actually more people using HM Primal weapons for a while where they were the same ilvl as non-zenith relics. So I really dunno where you're pulling this "everyone was the same" from.

My main issue with this "content" is that it's just recycling existing content in the game in the form of a grind. This was a game that gave us cool class quests every 5 levels as well as a fantastic main scenario. Surely they could've come up with some form of quest line that involved class skill checks and other challenges, rather than an RNG grind followed by how much farming you can do before you die of boredom. It's just lazy and archaic game design, which I believe is ultimately the underlying crux of most peoples complaints, not the duration the "content" takes.

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

People fail to see that the atma quest was implemented to prevent the entire game's population from all having the same weapon (what happened in 2.0 and 2.1). Eventually - it's better for the game to cause people to stray from the Relic path. The world needs variety...not everyone running around with relics (be it the most up-to-date version or a less upgraded version).

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You're speaking from a more selfish point-of-view, but you disguise it in the form of "wanting variety." Yoshida has stated a while ago during the March 19th Dengeki interview that he would increase the breadth of items at each level, i.e. the variety. Variety is coming, but it's up to you to remain patient and understand that Yoshi-P has it under control.

To that end, you really shouldn't worry about who has what in this game, unless you are the type of person who looks down on others for having inferior weapons. Understand that you are human -- as all other humans, we [usually] look forward to and strive for the best things as well as strive to operate in the most efficient way possible, even in an MMO. This simply means that as long as their is a promise of an "Ultimate Weapon," people will go after it. The game will naturally sort itself out as the upgrade process continues. The difficulty will amp up, and you will see people fall to the wayside when it comes to upgrading the weapons, for another easier to obtain option.

2 weeks of trying to get 1 atma, after two weeks at 3-4h per day and 8h on sat + sun, didnt bring me ....anything at all...none zéro....I stopped. When you try for two weeks and get nothing, and your time is limitated at those 3-4h, obvioulsy means you will be stuck whree you are without possibilities to move forward..all I do ? is level other jobs, now and then, do CT and that is it....
the main problem I have is that atmas shouldnt be related to fates, there are so many fates in this world, lol, it should really be a whole new set of quests engulfing a whole new set of stories that leads you to get your atmas, it may take weeks, months to get them all, with harder quests, harder challenge, something concrete, people would work their way to it I am sure pretty much more then what is today lol and give them something else to do ..but is me...most that can spend their entire life online would disagree, bu this game isnt player by a majority of no lifers....and for a vast quantity of players, atmas is just a pain not int erms of grinding but in terms of how annoying it is and for no result even after hours and hours and hours of hard work.

Just me though

Mei

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Originally Posted by CrAZYVIC

I dont mind the 40 - 50 hours grind for complete the Atma weapons.

My problem with this Dam weapon are.

1.- The atma weapons do not have stats change................... After 50 hours grinding.. We do not RECEIVE A REWARD/STATS change, this is unacceptable.

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The reward is a higher ilevel that make space for higher stats.

Just imagine ilevel as a glass and stats as water. You have a glass full of water (zenith). Now you get a new glass that is bigger in which you fill in the water from the other glass (atma with zenith stats). Now the glass is not full anymore, that mean you can fill it up with more water (the books) until it is full again (animus).

Yoshida already said before 2.2 that the players upgrade the stats on the new relicts themselves. The atma stones farming part increase the ilevel for higher stats and the book farming part is the real upgrade phase.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Snip!

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Finally someone that gets it. ;)

It's like the limit break quests in FFXI. They didn't give you 5 levels, only unlocked it so you could go out and level up 5 more times.

I think the current progression of the Zodiac Saga is spot on. From the RNG Atmas, to the 'myth run Brayflox 30 times to buy another book'. Still don't have my animus yet, but I'll have it finished before 2.8, and then will start working on my alternate classes as soon as the chain/farm gets nerfed a bit. Probably exactly how it was designed.