Accuracy on new Healer gear...?

I think I'll just quote myself since I'm lazy...

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I don't get why this argument is still going on.

A healer who DPS' during an instance =/= do not know or understand their role
A healer who doesn't DPS during an instance =/= they are a bad healer, they are a perfectly capable healer who doesn't go up and beyond their role in an instance

In the same token:

A healer who DPS in an instance can be a HORRENDOUS healer because they have tunnel vision about their DPS and forget to, you know, heal. These are incredibly bad healer, but you cannot generalize all healers that DPS in an instance in this category. That's factually false. Some of us know how to balance the two properly and play both effectively.

A healer who doesn't DPS in an instance isn't a horrendous healer either. They are doing the role given to them and doing it effectively and efficiently. Can they give added value to the party by DPSing? Sure, of course, but this is their designated role in a standard DF setup and should be their first priority. Anything BEYOND that is supposed to be beyond their scope.

The key thing about a healer is to have the situational awareness and adaptability to determine what is the best course of action for them. Make decisions based on the composition you get, whether it be a static, shout PUG, or DF PUG, etc.

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and

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Fights are tuned to be able to be cleared at XX ilvl. If your DPS are at that ilvl, they should be able overcome all mechanics, including add spawns, in the time frame given. Though some fights are tuned better than others, this should be a general case. If your DPS cannot handle these hurdles without the additional DPS from a WHM, then the fault is squarely on your DPS, not on the healer.

Does this mean a WHM spamming Holy in AoE situations isn't beneficial? No, because spamming Holy allows your DPS to get back onto the boss quicker and unload their more potent single target abilities sooner. However, this is value added by your healer, gravy to the gravy train that is the healer package.

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Apply adaptivity to anything in the game a healer can do. Pick the best course of action and do it as that will push your team along to victory. This could be healing or DPSing, or idling and letting MP regenerate for a particularly healing intensive segment coming up. Having the awareness is important and using the healer toolkit to its fullest will lead to great success.

I think, on DF groups, I'm going to start calling out BLMs, SMNs, and PLDs for not helping with cures when things get rough. The fireworks should be fun to watch.

(I won't do this in PF or statics since that'll definitely be a fast track to getting kicked. Funny how that works...)

lol this thread is still going...:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Grembo

As a WAR, I make sure to keep Storm's Path up and pop abilities like ToB, Mantra to make things go smoother at crucial moments.

I shouldn't have to do any of this since it's the healers job to worry about incoming damage right?

As the OT in our group, you don't see me going afk when there's nothing to tank either.

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You are a tank, can you tell why reducing enemy's incoming damage isn't in your job list? Or BARE MINIMUM list of things to do?

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Originally Posted by JonFarron

It's about being adaptive to situations. A good player will be able to easily adapt to a less than perfect situation using the tool set they have to try and prevent a wipe. Tanks not getting the heals they need? Better start stoneskinning. Healer died and other healer is struggling to keep the party up? SMN better res the other healer, or BLM better start helping out with Physick on DPS. Both tanks died? Swiftcast Titan+Rouse+Spur+Enkindle to keep the boss busy for a bit while the healers get the tanks back up. I've actually used Titan to prevent a few wipes, was fun. (Specifically in CT, Behemoth)

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Good for you. You are a great player, but how many people out there can or will do that? So if a DPS can term a non-DPS healer BAD, can we now term the rest that are not doing all of your above mentioned as BAD too? Please note that you should be doing it ALL the time. If your party wipes and you are not doing any of those (EG: you MUST heal/ try to titan tank and SC raise before your pt wipe) you are BAD as well. How confident you are able to do it? Out of 100 wipes in your party, how many times you save the team from wiping with you doing the above claimed.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I think, on DF groups, I'm going to start calling out BLMs, SMNs, and PLDs for not helping with cures when things get rough. The fireworks should be fun to watch.

(I won't do this in PF or statics since that'll definitely be a fast track to getting kicked. Funny how that works...)

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Exactly. But let's not drop down to their level. We know best some of the DPS/Caster/Tank out there can do their job well enough to not expect other class to help them out all the time.


Noticed a lot of people coming into this topic, telling little stories about how they save the day with their extra miles, while that is respectable but is totally out of the point of our discussion. We are discussing about how DPS cannot meet the DPS check and DEMAND the healer to DPS and if they cannot or after assessing the content they decided not to for the previous fight, they are now termed BAD HEALER FOR NOT DPS-ING.

How many of you went into T4 AOE phase and wiped due to not enough DPS and some DPS immediately called out healers:"WHM, where is your HOLY?" When the group have 2 BLM/SMN and a BRD.

How many times when you go T5 Snake phase and some DPS called the SCH out for not DPS-ing immediately after they wipe due to not enough DPS to down the snake?

I am not saying helping out is BAD, i have been in groups for Leviathan Extreme where healer help out in DPS to clear enrage. Been there, done that as both WHM and SCH, what i do not want to see is this TREND that spells, healer, you have to DPS or else you are not getting into my PT or healer DPS or else you are BAD. This is not right.

Helping out is OK and it adds value and people would certainly invite you to their party again but EXPECT or even DEMAND other people to do your job is BAD.

I rest my case.

^ this. right there sums it up quite nicely, i commend you sir.

come to think of it the dude that called me a "bad healer" never came back to defend his claims...guess he got intimidated by your responses

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Originally Posted by Marcusow86

You are a tank, can you tell why reducing enemy's incoming damage isn't in your job list? Or BARE MINIMUM list of things to do?

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Healers are responsible for mitigating/preventing/curing damage. DPSing enemies kills them faster and prevents them from doing as much damage as they would otherwise deal, which certainly seems like it would help a healer do their job.

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Good for you. You are a great player, but how many people out there can or will do that? So if a DPS can term a non-DPS healer BAD, can we now term the rest that are not doing all of your above mentioned as BAD too? Please note that you should be doing it ALL the time. If your party wipes and you are not doing any of those (EG: you MUST heal/ try to titan tank and SC raise before your pt wipe) you are BAD as well. How confident you are able to do it? Out of 100 wipes in your party, how many times you save the team from wiping with you doing the above claimed.

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Maybe none. Maybe one. But you won't succeed if you don't try. Heck, even if you fail to save the group every time, it doesn't make you bad.

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Exactly. But let's not drop down to their level. We know best some of the DPS/Caster/Tank out there can do their job well enough to not expect other class to help them out all the time.


Noticed a lot of people coming into this topic, telling little stories about how they save the day with their extra miles, while that is respectable but is totally out of the point of our discussion. We are discussing about how DPS cannot meet the DPS check and DEMAND the healer to DPS and if they cannot or after assessing the content they decided not to for the previous fight, they are now termed BAD HEALER FOR NOT DPS-ING.

How many of you went into T4 AOE phase and wiped due to not enough DPS and some DPS immediately called out healers:"WHM, where is your HOLY?" When the group have 2 BLM/SMN and a BRD.

How many times when you go T5 Snake phase and some DPS called the SCH out for not DPS-ing immediately after they wipe due to not enough DPS to down the snake?

I am not saying helping out is BAD, i have been in groups for Leviathan Extreme where healer help out in DPS to clear enrage. Been there, done that as both WHM and SCH, what i do not want to see is this TREND that spells, healer, you have to DPS or else you are not getting into my PT or healer DPS or else you are BAD. This is not right.

Helping out is OK and it adds value and people would certainly invite you to their party again but EXPECT or even DEMAND other people to do your job is BAD.

I rest my case.

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I have never once outside of this thread heard of a healer being called bad for not dpsing. I would never call a healer bad because they aren't dpsing, or blame them for a wipe caused by them not dpsing.

But you know what? If you have the mp, GCD, and a topped off party with no expected spikes of damage coming, and instead of dpsing you just sit there? You are leaving damage on the table, and while that might not necessarily be "bad," it's not good. You should always be looking to improve yourself in some way. DPSing when the opportunity presents itself is certainly one of the ways you can do so - not the most important one for a healer, but still an improvement.

And let's calm down. This whole kerfuffle started when a single person made a sarcastic comment, but you've assumed it to be a "TREND." One person who plays an archer calling a healer bad on the forums does not mean every dps now expects every healer to carry the dps. It means there's a rude person on the internet whose opinion you disagree with. Hopefully this is the first time it's ever happened, but I doubt it.

Coming to you from our second Rafflesia kill, you have to do damage.
Also, Selene ftw! :P

As a WHM, my job is to keep the party alive. While I don't disagree that helping mobs die sooner does that to an extent, my MP is better spent doing stoneskinning and pre-casting heals. Generally, I only do any noticeable amount of DPS when I'm doing content that I'm overgeared for. If I'm running something like Coil, you're unlikely to see me throwing out any DPS unless I'm in a really, really stellar group that's taking little damage and are well geared.