I want Wyverns back!!

I'm sure there are a lot of people that just screw it up terribly, because they are either new to the style, are very young, lazy, or just not capable. but I'm not one of those people, I always do my research and I practice with damage calculators to verify rotations and could probably write strategy guides on this game with a lot of boring work. I just need to punch in numbers.. pretty simple but a lot of work.
Sadly ANYONE has the same ability but most don't care or are too lazy. So say what you want about my experience in this game, but I would be willing to bet a good sum that any non pvp rotation in ff14 couldn't possibly be more complex than most of the macros I have set up for some of my other games.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Ishgard military is made up of Dragoons this is true and you come up with good points. But like any city they could be people within ishgard that no longer believe in killing dragoons they find and build there own small city and a new job is born. One that no longer kills them but befriends and learn how to fight along side them. You think that SE can't come up with some bull why this happens?

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They can, but the story takes you into Coerthas alongside the fanatical inquisitors who execute people on mere suspicion of sympathy for the dragons. You can't possibly go back to the city-state of Ishgard after you've befriended a wyvern -- all Ishgardians who see you would be obligated to attack on sight. Reconciliation would be technically possible, but then you would have to separate the players who completed that stage from those who have not, so that you aren't discussing the inquisition right next to some guy traipsing about with a dragon over his shoulder.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Also you keep talking about how you have a movement heavy job attempting to simultaneously control a pet. I don't think that a issue at all the pet could do it's own thing for the most part.

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Long story short, they don't. Your pet does not differentiate between standing in the fire and not standing in the fire. It can't make a judgment as to when it should be on the platform and when it can afford to take a few points of damage to get across. It doesn't enjoy heals like everything else and can't be directly targeted by your healers. You can spot a fledgling SMN from a mile away; their pets die very, very frequently.

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Originally Posted by Kyoreore

I'm sorry but I'm all for the way jobs were structured in classic FF titles, and I hate to break it to you but Dragoons never had wyvern pets.

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The very first dragoons, from FF2, were wyvern-riders. The Emperor wiped them out, along with the wyverns.

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Originally Posted by SinnersCreed

First off I never claimed to be an expert after reading a guide, second off if you are trying to tell me that this game is so different that I wouldn't understand how rotations with buffs and debuffs which require timing work well you can stop right there. I know all I need to know about the game to make eduacated guesses and the only thing I don't know is the timing because I havent hit 50 yet. Big deal...

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Having not played DRG at endgame, you've never had to fit your rotation into the many mechanics designed to stop you from doing so. You are telling everyone how easy something is without having done it.

Having not played DRG at endgame, you've never had to fit your rotation into the many mechanics designed to stop you from doing so. You are telling everyone how easy something is without having done it.[/QUOTE]

Granted I have never done it on this game, and I never actually said it was "easy" just said everyone shouldn't make it sound like its the hardest thing ever, However My point remains the same : I DO understand how rotations with buffs and debuffs which require timing work" and The fact thatI haven't done them yet is hardly discrediting to my understanding of the basics AND complexities of an atb with buffs, debuffs and counters, defensive and offensive CDs and GCDs. it's basically like saying I dont know how to drive a European car if I am from America. There is only so much I would need to learn and most of which I can make eduacated guesses.

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Originally Posted by SinnersCreed

Dont be so retarded... dont you think that I already looked up rotation and seen the 24 button cycle? found the off cycles and checked stat priorities, mat builds? if you check my original post it says that I have been playing these games for over 14 years... pretty sure I know wtf I'm talking about, thx.

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Doubtful, because you sound like you're only 14 years old let alone played MMOs for that long. But I get it. You like to be big and mighty on the internet with your swearing and trash talk. Its unfortunate, because I was going to respond to your first post constructively. But since I can't read any of what you wrote in any posts after that without imagining it being said with a cracking voice and only one hand on the keyboard, you get this instead.

Cheers.

Someone hasn't made it to coearthas yet. This request literally makes no sense in the context of FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

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It seem no matter what people say you against seem to be a thing in any topic when people want something to be added. It's a MMO from 1.0 to 2.0 patch the storyline have been change many times to the point that it no longer fit together. They could easy make it work there no issue they may not add it now maybe not in 2years but at some point they could. If it make people happy and add more to the game i don't see why not. Stop thinking so close minded let people enjoy the game and request what they want.

If it does not work yoshi-p would say no and that it but too then why not talk about it and come up with ways they could add it. Second Class with a job that have a wyvern or add it on lancer as a second job does not matter as long as they add more jobs and more storyline i be happy.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

It seem like w/e anyone come up with you just against it no matter what.

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You are providing half-baked solutions to the myriad problems with the concept. There is no feasible way to fit a wyvern-wielding job into the lore without changing the entirety of the storyline as it stands now or sending every post-story character to an island from which they can never return. It is not a small lore problem, or a small mechanical problem. I've already explained what to expect from any potential melee pet job. While I think a lot of his design is poor, a mid-range job like MartaDemireux's BST/BLU concept would be infinitely more feasible than LNC.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

It seem like everytime someone come up with a idea to add more stuff to the game. There always people hell no it's like don't we want more stuff to do?

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There are plenty of good ideas around. This is not one of them.

Unfortunately, the lore does not support Dragoons having a wyvern/dragon based pet. If it did, and the mechanics/balance was set up to cater for it, then they would already have one. It's too late to change the story behind them now, because the lore behind Dragoon is very deeply tied into Ishgard and the dragons they are at war with.

It is something you will have to deal with. This isn't FFXI. The background is different, and there is simply no room for placing a pet onto Dragoons. Not to mention the change in the balance, that having a pet would inevitably result in, would cause a lot of problems for players. As someone who enjoys the XIV Dragoon, I'd be part of that group.

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Originally Posted by SinnersCreed

I want Wyverns back!! And my biggest problem so far is the lack of wyverns for the Dragoon.

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I disagree. As it has been stated already by others, Lancer/Dragoon would have to be changed to balance around the addition of a pet.

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Originally Posted by SinnersCreed

We can have a battle chocobo but no Wyvern? ludicrous!

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See, this is something Yoshi-P could add in the future if he decide to expand on the Companions system. A wyvern or any other battle ready companion would fit under the those circumstances.

Personally, I would like for the FFXI DRG wyvern to make an appearance in Eorzea, but as a minion.

I always wondered why there was no wyvern minion, and if that was because it was going to be added as an actual pet or chocobo buddy alternative. Now that I've had over a year to think about it and play the game, I'm thinking none of that will happen any time soon, for several reasons. First, Ishgard is not only at war with the dragons, but part of the main scenario is based on that fact. Second, a lot of people started FF with FFXI (like me) and don't realize that FF Dragoons usually don't have dragon/wyvern/wyrm pets. (Just like "-ga" for spells doesn't mean AOE (but that's another topic).)

I wont play dragoon because they don't have a wyvern...fluff or not idc! It just feels like there is a part of me missing. I know this isn't XI, but I really loved the wyvern. I do hope that a job that has a pet wyvern is introduced later into the game

Yeah lets give Dragoon's a pet wyvern... Also while we're at it lets give Monk a pet monkey that rubs your back and restores your TP over time.

Lore or not, If Dragoon having a wyvern in FFXIV would've been that great I'm sure SE would've done it already.

If you want a pet go play Neopets.

people keep saying wyverns/dragons are evil but they were evil in FFXI too but in the drg unlock quest you find a baby wyvern and raise it so that it doesnt become evil. now what i would do instead of giving dragoons a wyvern is make an offshoot class from lancer and all it wyvern knight or something. it's main subclass would be arcanist so it can have access to summon 1 and 2. give it the more support based iconic drg abilities
some examples from freya in ff9

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Dragon Knight Skill
Skill MP Effect
Lancer/Lancet 10 Reduces the enemy’s HP and MP
Reis’s Wind 12 Casts Regen on entire party
Dragon Breath 78 Reduces HP of all enemies
White Draw 36 Restores MP of all party members
Luna 12 Causes Berserk to all targets
Six Dragons 28 Fully restores HP and/or MP/Reduces HP and/or MP to 1/No Change at all!
Cherry Blossom 46 Causes non-elemental damage to all enemies
Dragon's Crest 16 Deals physical damage to the enemy

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so it would be like a hybrid physical/magical class

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Exactly. DRG in FFXI was less traditional DRG skill ... and more just a pseudo-pet Job revolving entirely around the wyvern and how it's AI functioned.

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This is flat out wrong. FFXI’s Dragoon had 9 Jump Related abilities compared to FFXIV’s Dragoon who has a paltry 4 Jump Attacks. This means that the Dragoon in FFXI had more jumps, and more support for its jumps than the Dragoon in FFXIV. Now I won't argue which is the better DPS class, because that argument won't get me anywhere. But the fact is, if you are looking strictly at which had more support for the signature move of the Dragoon Class Archetype as it has been presented in Final Fantasy as a Franchise, then the answer is hands down FFXI.

By the way, a Wyvern is NOT the same Species as a Dragon. They may be the same Genus, but they are not the same Species. As such it is entirely possible for there to be good Wyverns, even if the overwhelming majority of their cousins, Dragons, are evil.

It's a little slanted to compare FFXI DRG at 11 years to FFXIV DRG at 7 months. During FFXI's first year (level cap 65? 50?) DRG was a lot less jumpy, too. And calling the wyvern was only a 2-hour ability for over 5 years.

We're probably getting new abilities in the next patch. Yoshi-P has in the past mentioned not dragons but sort of dragon-like abilities in the future. So maybe more jumps and maybe a dragon breath ability as soon as patch 2.2.

The Dravanian Horde (the dragons) are a beast tribe that Ishgard is wholly against. The ONLY way it would fit in the lore is if the main character ended up inciting a massive regime and cultural shift. It's not as easy as saying "let the writers figure it out". They would have to completely 're-write the Coerthas arc in the main plot to allow it. Otherwise, an adventurer displaying the power to control a wyvern would have been executed in an instant. Ishgard has 0 tolerance for dragons and yes, wyverns count as dragons. They were willing to execute one of the HEADS of one of the GOVERNING houses for SUSPICION of being allied with the dragons. They're not going to be okay with you raising one even if you taught him how to love.

That being said, it is possible that a wyvern mount or minion is possible solely because that's more cosmetic and you can deduce that the hero just hides it in when they go into Ishgard.

DRG is already one of the hardest if not the hardest class to properly play, we did a "lan" party the other day and my friends who didn`t belive when i said that DRG has it hard, at the 4 seconds of dungeon got it. People is just used to melee DPS to be easiest class to play (thanks to rogue classes for that!) and most ppl think they work like that here and they chose DRG and MNK not only because they look cool and are iconic FF jobs, but also because they think they will learn the game using an easy class and suddenly all of em got roflstomped by much longer combos, lots of skills, heavy CD managment and hellish positioning... Adding a micromanagment of a pet would be sick.

Now, the lore argument is not fully correct, yes Dragoons are Dragon Killers, jumps were made to impale dragons from above in aerial combat and our homeplace Ishgard wages a holy crusade against the Dravian Horde. But just as the others enemies tribes we have encoutered (tho the Dravians are not a beast tribe) they may also have some more friendly individuals... I can see in the FAR future a Dragon Tamer or a Dragon Knight class with either a combat mount or a combat companion in the form of a wyvern or a dragon, i can even see their quest going arround the fact they need to stop harrasing from the Dragoons of Ishgard and things like that.

So, wyvern pet for Dragoon is a no, wyvern as a companion for a future class could make it. Think about Ishgard like the second most probably next region to explore (first for me being Sharlayan which is also victim of the Dragons btw!) so obviusly dragon/wyvern content will be released in a future update/expansion.

I only played dragoon for a short bit after 50 but I never felt like I was lacking for damage so adding an additional source of dmg seems like it would require too much of an overhaul. I do like the Idea of adding an alternate class/job though something like the dragoner/dragonkin in final fantasy tactics would be a good fit I think though I don't recall lances being one of her usable weapons. As far as the lore goes I can't say I've paid much attention to the lore but making some exception to the wyverns used by players doesnt seem like it would be too drastic.

I don't want a pet. But you can make my Limit breaks something to do with a wyvern.

What if the Wyvern "Pet" were implemented in a manner similar to the Chocobo Companion. Or for that matter what if the Wyvern were a Companion itself and was thus made available to all classes in the game. That would make it so that it is not so strictly tied to the Dragoon Class, and also eliminate the problems inherent in adding a Pet Toolbox to the Dragoon class, wouldn't it?