Why do people hate on tanky healers?

Please be aware, a tank does not just possess high HP, they possess the following:
1) High Defense
2) High Parry (in PLD case, high block rate as well)
3) Multiple Mitigation CDs
4) High HP

As a "Tank WHM", you possess the following:
1) Moderate HP
2) Stone Skin (easily interrupted)

So no, you will never be able to tank anything unless you over gear them by an extremely wide margin (in this case, I rather you ask a Dragoon/Monk to tank, MOAR DPS).

Now, on to "Survivability", you mentioned how you can save the day in Ifrit HM after a botched nail phase etc etc, or some may even think, "I can eat two WotL without dying now, higher HP is so worth it!!".

There's one similarity between the two situation mentioned above, which is FAILURE, your team failed to burn the nails down in time, you have failed to dodge WotL properly. So IMHO, having higher HP means you expect to fail, and in your expectation to fail, you have gimped yourself during normal play (lower heal values than usual).

Instead of planning to counter failure with higher HP, it is better to prevent failure in the 1st place, thus I do not see any tangible advantage of having a higher than normal HP pool.

Lol maybe someone should try conjurer with allagan gear and use cross class abilities lol ^_-
Jk anyways, 1st of i like success, idc how much i have to carry, as long as we make it through the instance. I will probably never see the ppl i partied with ever again ( assuming they don't que at the same time for the same thing as me ). Sure i'll teach a few ppl here and there, but honestly i wouldn't want to teach someone in every instance i go into. Also some ppl wouldn't want to wait for an explanation and just go with the rest of the party.
Lol and yes you can tank any mob/ boss. You mean you can't tank anything as effective as a real tank.
I can't tell dds to dps better as i don't play dds in these instances let alone do i know any fancy rotations. I barely see any dds ppl teaching each other during failed attempts.

Also what's wrong with over gearing? Most people now a days have a few/ all pieces of allagan/ myth in their gear set. So i'm not the only one " over gearing" for these level 50 instances/ dungeons

As long as you are able to mana control properly and still keep everyone alive why is it any of their business? People have different opinions on BiS and builds in general. Going all vit on a whm is probably not the best way to go because the potency x mind is so high. SCH pure vit is an easy exchange 30 min= 30 potency basically per heal. Regardless, who cares? If you can do your job and enjoy your style of playing go for it. Vit is an OP stat in general especially if you have connection problems. You can still be hit and live basically. Plus what good is a dead healer?

Ah i love that saying
" a dead healer is a useless healer no matter what " = ultimate gimp lol
Jk lol but yeah good post AunaYuuki!

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Ah i love that saying
" a dead healer is a useless healer no matter what " = ultimate gimp lol
Jk lol but yeah good post AunaYuuki!

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Exactly. Do what's best for you as long as you can preform screw the haters. I may not agree with going 100% vit, but I won't disregard its helpful ability.

I only dislike "Tanky" healers when I go into a hard mode to help out friend and there is a douche-whm who is spamming medica like no tomorrow. Then gets the "OTs" upset who are genuinely trying to learn the content but can't because one person ruins it. I hate this kind of whm because they simply can't heal themselves without me spamming to keep them alive.

If you are capable of keeping yourself up go for it but should do it in your pre-made grp and not in a grp that wants to learn how to do it.

Maybe they should learn how to use the divine seal + medica 2 and regen method.
Its like to enhanced regens casted from 1 healer and will act like cure 1's for 20 secs

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Maybe they should learn how to use the divine seal + medica 2 and regen method.
Its like to enhanced regens casted from 1 healer and will act like cure 1's for 20 secs

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This would cause so much hate gain and probably pull hate from a new tank. Even with your gimpy healing power.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

:D omg r u that legend tank whm? If so awesome!
How did turn 5 go with that set up?
Did it go all poop like everyone claimed it will be?
Also did ur partner healer tell u that he's doing more work than you?

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It went fine, but both myself and the other healer noticed that we had to work harder for it. Just keep in mind though that we both had plenty of experience clearing previous runs. If we were still learning the timing etc I doubt it would have gone nearly as well.

And no, he was the only one that cottoned on to my mistake, since he was there for that titan he didn't mind thankfully. I suspect I'd have gotten lynched if I didn't respec for the following week though!

See, there is a huge issue with this logic. You are not playing a single player game. In a single player game you can run naked and hit mobs with a broom and nobody cares because it does not hinder them.
However, you are doing the same in a mutliplayer game and you are hindering everyone else just for your fun. You say you are doing your work but are you really, or is the other healer picking up for your slack and making it seem like you do fine?
Honestly, the only time should do it if you were grouping with friends and they knew you were going to do something like this and approved.

The OP's said a few times he's doing it for the lulz at lower tier content, so why do people get bothered?

It is a simple fact he is gimping his healing to pump his survivability. This means at higher tier content he is a liability to a high performing team. He seems fully aware of this fact. Let him have his fun.

Lol i feel like some people are forgetting that 4 man groups exsist. Like i can heal pharos sirius without a bard just fine.
Cuz it allows me to tank almost all the dogs regardless of the dogs giving stacks to me and exploding me and it allows the others to just burn the boss. On siren i can spare a holy on each adds wave too. Also on Zu i can just tank 4-5 hatchling things even if they r spitting on me. So the other dps can burn boss.
Sure the way i play seems uncoventional to most people but it seems very plausible in 4 man groups as i am the only healer.
In 8 mans it's a bit harder but a thing i like to do whenever possible is to use divine seal medica 2 and regen on both tanks then allow them to tick while i dps with cleric stance aero 1, 2, stone 2 if i feel like it lol then cleric stance off and go back to healing then use divine seal as soon as its up. I always time it and use it whenever possible or during unavoidable attacks.

But like i said, i haven't tried this out in turn 4 and 5 to an extent where i have been the cause of the failure or the lack of heals/ oom > tank death. As the random groups i've joined always have issues with placement and dps power etc. but hey as i see it atm most dps hp are in the 3500-4500 range so i don't think we need that high of a heals for now as you know divine seal was invented lol. But unless they raise the vit in the new armour in 2.2 i don't think i have to worry too much yet.

I have a Sch main so I'm free to mess with my WHM just like this. In party with food my WHM has 6k hp and heals for 860-910. I've also been able to heal T4 and Ifrit extreme with this build. It's honestly a lot of fun to play around with a tank build. Tanking both sisters in Garuda HM and both granite gaolers in Titan XM is ridiculous.

I'm not very good at modern MMOs but through titan HM, the Healing part of the role has been very very easy. The staying alive part is a bit tougher (unless you're tanky, and/or keep up stoneskin and regen). Optimal gear has been far from neccessary to do solid healing. In general damage that you can possibly heal through isn't that hard to heal through. Most people who die in my parties are 1 shot. Most wipes I experience either have a lot of people who were 1 shot, or a dead healer who got 1 shot. I'm sure things get tougher in X mode primals, and later turns, but certainly not in the early endgame.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/23992321.jpg

The idea of WHM tanking is such a tremendous fail I don't even know where to begin. No HP, no defensive CDs, everything interrupted ... just because it can be done in some easy-mode Fresh 50 runs does not make it a good idea.

I'd vote boot a WHM in tanking gear in a heartbeat if I ever saw one. Good lord. The fact that OP is trying to do all this WITHOUT swiftcast is even more amazing. Congratulation, OP. You get the "Worst Healer Ever" award.

No one tell this guy BLM can cross-class physick or we'll get to see him running it w/ all MND gear on.

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Originally Posted by Akiva_Ninazu

No one tell this guy BLM can cross-class physick or we'll get to see him running it w/ all MND gear on.

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I...I kind of want to see that.

OP, please?

Honestly, I don't really care about your built as long as you can keep my warrior alive.

I'm a warrior specialized in dps, because the faster I kill the mob, the less my healer have to heal. I consider dpsing a form of damage mitigation.
I have to wear tank armor but I favor det and crit over parry because they boost my dps for more mitigation.
I also sport dps only accessories.
I'm full Str specced.
And I don't use defiance because I have a lot more dps without it, so I have about 5.5k Hp.

Trust me, this extra dps helps A LOT when regular dps aren't able to kill Nails or Hearts or w/e they should dps.

Do you really think you can keep me alive ?
:o and if you can't keep me alive, people will say you are a terrible healer :p
[/irony mode off]


This is a team game. So as players, we make up for each others flaws and lacks.
Maybe you can keep up "logically" specced players alive, but if you meet someone doing the exact same illogical speccing as you do (like a tank in full dps mode), you'll have troubles keeping him alive, because it's like being double-gimp.

And maybe, once in a while, it could be fun to really go as a dps-tank and to bounce hate with a tanky healer :p

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Originally Posted by Akiva_Ninazu

No one tell this guy BLM can cross-class physick or we'll get to see him running it w/ all MND gear on.

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I've done this ... in pre-50 content when I was leveling BLM (WHM main; derpy healers would die and I would take over).

Like I said in my first post, I personally don't mind as long as he does his job without compromising much, but just like in real life, you're not always going to end up in groups who agree and it's up to everyone to work things out. If the consensus is that they don't want a tank healer, your options are to prove them wrong (if they give you a chance), oblige and adapt, or find a new group. That's all it comes down to - there's no need for drama or theorycrafting or what-have-you.

Btw an odd thing i noticed is that i don't get interrupted for most attacks while casting ( without surecast on )
Dunno if thats a bug or working as intended.
Like i could be hard raising and get hit by a plume and still continue to cast the last few seconds.

Also lol akiva if i was the worst healer ever, how would i have ever gotten past satasha? But i hope they put 1vs1 in pvp so i can beat down all those who oppose me lol jk jk, but i think this build would be more viable if that was the case right?

I am all for gimmicky builds/team composition runs (variety is the spice of life after all), but it seems the OP is entirely convinced that a tank build is not just viable for content, but is considered to have similar performance as a standard build healer.

If the OP is indeed aware that a tank build is sub-optimal/gimmicky build only, I apologize for my assumption.


Oh and to answer OP's original question "Why do people hate on tanky healers?", this is my personal opinion and experience, so take it with a grain of salt.
I have encountered a grand total of 5 healers with 5k+ HP, all 3 was encountered in DF titan EX, 2 was encountered in DF titan HM.
The 1st thing that came to my mind when I saw the 1st 5k+ HP healer in titan HM was "Don't tell me you stack your hp so high, is because you can't dodge anything?", lo and behold, he was punted off the arena from a landslide.

ALL FIVE tank healers I encountered performed ABYSMALLY, getting punted off, eating 3x plumes, dying to bombs etc.
As I said, this is all my personal experience, but if I see another tanky healer, I will immediately peg him as a liability until he proves otherwise.

Or if youw ant to be tanky, be a tank. What is happening in your runs that you need to be this tanky? If yu're getting hit that bad then by all that is just and holy find a new group to run with, WHM are meant to heal, not take hits. If you have to itemize to take hits because your tanks can't hold aggro,you run with bad tanks. If you are itemizing to be a tanky WHM because you think it's a giggle to take a hit, you're a bad WHM.

Roll pally, I think you're playing the wrong class.

There was a guy on my old coil team who swore he was the most epic whm on the server. He healed in all final fantasys and it was his "calling". He did not have swiftcast either. Needless to say he was replaced quickly. The fact that he got owned by laser on T2 on a regular basis and could not raid heal to save his life didnt help his cause either.

Honestly, I have no clue how someone can be a healer and do coil without swiftcast. I mean its doable most definitely, but I wouldnt even start doing endgame summoning without swiftcast, but healing? Really? Its at level 26 thm! It would take like half a day at the most. I often evaluate peoples priorities when I group up with them, and if I met a healer with tank gear and no swiftcast, Id probably kick you off my team without even doing a run with you. But thats just me.

It might have been mentioned earlier, but have you concidered that most of those fails where you ress everyone as a hero could probably be fails due to you not doing your job properly in the first place?

You guys are just hating because you're not good enough to heal without being overgeared. Same bunch of people who wear allagan chest of healing and then myth pants ( which looks retarded ) just for BIS.

Also, in my experience, people with weird builds like this perform better than those who dont. They go beyond the cookie cutter, and end up being more flexible with almost any strategy. (2 stack fireballs in T5 with a fairy friend. Can't beat that.)

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Also lol akiva if i was the worst healer ever, how would i have ever gotten past satasha? But i hope they put 1vs1 in pvp so i can beat down all those who oppose me lol jk jk, but i think this build would be more viable if that was the case right?

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Idk maybe because its Satasha is one of the easiest dungeons in the game its kinda hard to screw it up, and im sorry but I have to call Bull on all that you have stated video proof or it didn't happen im a Ilvl90 whm and I know theres no way to survive a mountain buster or T1 with just health its suicide. Though Per your question Whm's tanking is just a big no. If whm were able to tank then why did they give us paladins and warriors I say stick to your job and heal and holy it up lol.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Btw an odd thing i noticed is that i don't get interrupted for most attacks while casting ( without surecast on )
Dunno if thats a bug or working as intended.
Like i could be hard raising and get hit by a plume and still continue to cast the last few seconds.

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Getting hit doesn't mean interruption. You have just been lucky. Sastasha is the first dungeon in the game. It doesn't even push healer at all. I can heal it half asleep just pushing the cure button. I'm glad I'd never run into you in Duty Finder.

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Originally Posted by Pakuda

You guys are just hating because you're not good enough to heal without being overgeared. Same bunch of people who wear allagan chest of healing and then myth pants ( which looks retarded ) just for BIS.

Also, in my experience, people with weird builds like this perform better than those who dont. They go beyond the cookie cutter, and end up being more flexible with almost any strategy. (2 stack fireballs in T5 with a fairy friend. Can't beat that.)

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I suspect they are hating more because whilst some crazy builds are actually quite good (I've done plenty of them myself, back in WoW I heal/totem buddied every single high warlord warrior on my server pre expac and up until arena, was one of the most notorious pvp healers on the server, amusingly I never actually specced restoration until the first expac and earth shield, I always healed with a mostly elemental build. Going further back to EQ1 my AA farm groups consisted of my shaman and 5 random DPS from the guild, I pulled, tanked & healed leaving the rest of the group to chew up the mobs I lined up for them), the majority are just throwbacks to the whm/nins of FFXI where not only were they generally subpar at there role, but often a liability to the rest of the group.

As things are in XIV, play style and ability matters more than gear tbh.

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Originally Posted by yondaimeflash

Bull on all that you have stated video proof or it didn't happen im a Ilvl90 whm and I know theres no way to survive a mountain buster or T1 with just health its suicide. Though Per your question Whm's tanking is just a big no.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5TDzbqfEAo

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Getting hit doesn't mean interruption. You have just been lucky. Sastasha is the first dungeon in the game. It doesn't even push healer at all. I can heal it half asleep just pushing the cure button. I'm glad I'd never run into you in Duty Finder.

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For real. Beating Sastasha just proves you have working internet connection. Go in as SCH and you can DPS the entire time. It can't be tough if Eos can do ALL the work.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5TDzbqfEAo

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I remember watching that video a few months back, was hilarious. My group likes doing 7 tank titan matches as well. Just goes to show that if your group is good, you can afford to mess around.

I don't believe this OP one bit that they tank extreme titan and any end game trial or dungeon as a WHM. . nope no way nope nope nope.. this conversation is bogus .. until I c a video of u doing it nope no way

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Originally Posted by Akiva_Ninazu

For real. Beating Sastasha just proves you have working internet connection. Go in as SCH and you can DPS the entire time. It can't be tough if Eos can do ALL the work.

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Was your goal to miss their point entirely, or did you not even read in the first place?

The problem isn't being able to heal stuff now.

The point is clearing new content with the least amount of gear possible.

Your goal shouldn't be to survive as much as you can but to survive reliable/unavoidable damage (like fireballs from twintania).
Once you have enough HP to survive intended mechanics every time or 99% of the time Then stack as much outgoing healing (or possible damage depending on the encounter).

So yeah. putting 30 vit and wearing vit meld acc to clear twintania in half darklight gear may been ideal (the world first group had 30 vit on healers). That said you would ideally have full sets of non VIT gear for harder healing checks, and possibly even some accuracy melds for potential future absurd dps check content.

But if your wearing all the VIT gear on pathetically easy encounters (like titan ex) just so you don't get killed by easy mechanics. You are bad. If it works for you that is great, but you can't act surprised that people realize your bad.

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Originally Posted by Staris

But if you're wearing all the VIT gear on pathetically easy encounters (like titan ex) just so you don't get killed by easy mechanics. You are bad. If it works for you that is great, but you can't act surprised that people realize you're bad.

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ur are so good.

Pakuda made a good point as i think people think they need to be BiS everything to even attempt healing at endgame etc.
Like i'd bet half of you wouldn't even be able to heal in endgame with the said build as you probably wouldn't know how to squeeze out every inch of power of healing potency that the build could offer. Also who said i couldn't dodge lol i did this build so i wouldn't have to follow some of the intended mechanics.

Lol....what a lame thread. I'm a full ilevel 90 WHM with just over 4k health unbuffed, and yet, with party buff, I can eat 3 plumes in HM Titan as well as a mountain buster, as it has happened a couple times. I also can solo heal HM Titan, and yet, I can avoid stuff and keep what remaining people alive that don't die to avoidables. Heck, even had to stone Titan to death when it was just me and the tank for the last few hits. My point is, being a tanky WHM is just being stupid and a crutch for your lack of ability to survive. I have even survived in CT's first boss when all the adds went to the Dragon and caused a wipe to everyone else but me and a tank. So that tells me that all your extra vitality is just a joke. You're a disgrace to the healers for not doing your job. Your heals is low. You rather keep yourself alive than keeping others alive. I can do just fine with keeping myself alive as well as put out top heals. Not only are you gimping your heals output, but you lose your mana capacity as well to keep up. If you ended up in my group, I'd have you remove because I have no interests in carrying others because they can't do their job properly.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Pakuda made a good point as i think people think they need to be BiS everything to even attempt healing at endgame etc.
Like i'd bet half of you wouldn't even be able to heal in endgame with the said build as you probably wouldn't know how to squeeze out every inch of power of healing potency that the build could offer. Also who said i couldn't dodge lol i did this build so i wouldn't have to follow some of the intended mechanics.

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I don't think you need BIS, you could just go with the flow, get w/e pieces you want, BUT THEY SHOULD BE HEALER PIECES. Let's all admit said OP was carried through most content by the other healer. As a geared out healer , not BiS, just maybe at least max mind you can have given the gear set up, in cleric stance you can help dd when too much healing is needed..that is way more valuable to a party than a healer that survives stuff while not dodging imo, or maybe who dodges, but as statted themselves for tankyness. I don't need another party member who is just gonna eat stuff to the face while spamming, there's the tank, who's job it is to do that, and then its the melee dds who are already effing up doing that. I need another healer that works together with me and we save mp.

This healer cannot HEAL even Caduceus, lets just be honest, and Caduceus is almost boring for me now as a healer, so its really not that hard once you get into the swing of things, they just merely wouldn't be able to heal for the amount needed to do coil really in most situations, they would be healing OT, he'd take a really big hit , and either I'd have to actually save that tank, being on MT or ....he dies. Now if we're talking most of the party is way overgeared, which would be in next patch, they can come back into coil and be carried.