Just give us a chance...

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Originally Posted by waldo

Died several times. Died twice more.
Seems to me they gave you your chance(s).

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Perhaps so, I will not argue that. However, the insult to my abilities was not needed. I made it that far in the game, I obviously just did not have the skills at that time to pass the trial. I even offered to leave so that they could find a better suited player. I can recognize my own faults and will not bring down a group with me. The insult came AFTER I offered to leave. I suppose that is what was the hardest to swallow. If I had already made it that far, was it necessary to be rude? I don't think so but I'm certain that there are others who would disagree with me.

I will study the fight and try again another time. My experience is just not enough for the fight at the moment.

Thanks all for your comments and the helpful suggestions. I will look into them and see if I may improve.

If there is anything I have learned...

People who outright berate others are usually not good at the job themselves. Almost every "three strike rule" group I see/join has a leader who A) dies all the time or B) is a mediocre player at best (might dodge well but isn't great at their job in general). Anyone who is truly good at the game will take enough pride in their skill that they won't need to berate others.

Duty Finders can be pretty brutal. Rude players have the sanctity of knowing they'll never see you again (no consequences), and even if they ARE on your server... server populations are so large that reputation REALLY doesn't follow you. (I can't tell you how many times I've heard stories of people Needing items in a 'greed only' party and they don't develop a bad reputation for it. There are just too many people to keep track of all the jerks. I actually just recently kicked a guy out of my LS for openly bragging about needing in a greed party.)

I would suggest to you... if you take a while to catch on (as you admitted in your OP), perhaps it would be best for you to find people on your own server who are willing to help you learn. There are some great people out there who are patient enough to help... and even if you found someone nice in the DF, chances are you won't see them again. Find and join a friendly linkshell/FC. :)

Anyway... if you were messing up over and over again after I tried to explain a fight... I might be frustrated, for sure, but I would never say anything rude. To say something rude, I would have to type it out... and by that point I would have thought it through! I can't believe the attitudes of some people in this game who would say awful things to someone's face without giving them a chance.

There really should be a warning label for all DF queues:

Veteran Players: you may be grouped up with people who have never done these fights before. They may also have not-so-great gear. Are you sure you don't want a premade?
New Players: you may be grouped up with people who have little patience and will be rude to you if you do not know the fights. Are you sure you don't want a premade?

I never go into DF expecting a lot. So, if you are paired up with people who are rude or inexperienced... you won't be disappointed.

One of the first dungeons i ever joined, i think it was stone vigil, i was told to quit and uninstall the game lmao
Every time I did something new i was pretty much getting yelled at by someone

I don't like to watch fights in advance, that's how i like to play

So i just ignore the bs and keep doing my thing, cause it makes me happy

happiness is the name of the game

BOOM!

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

Anyway... if you were messing up over and over again after I tried to explain a fight... I might be frustrated, for sure, but I would never say anything rude. To say something rude, I would have to type it out... and by that point I would have thought it through! I can't believe the attitudes of some people in this game who would say awful things to someone's face without giving them a chance.

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I agree completely with this. There was no explanation from anyone even though three of us said they were new, the tank just went in so I tried to follow and watch the best I could. I did do better on the second run but as I said, I offered to leave, I knew I wasn't ready and the fight was more than I had expected.

I suppose I could also change my view and pull back even more to see the additional attacks. That will probably help I'm sure. I just have difficulty with my vision so I usually stay at a certain angle. No problem though, it never hurts to try.

I really think you're right about the warnings for the DF. It would soooo help. lol

Oh, my warnings about the DF were more of a joke. ^^;

Anyway... I'm not sure if you mentioned what dungeon it was in here, but maybe something good could come from this thread...

Which dungeon were you having trouble on? Do you have any questions about it? Maybe people can help without berating you.

Yeah Ultima hard is incredibly unforgiving to new players. And you haven't even made it to the bomb phase... I'm actually refusing to do it again and I haven't even beaten it yet... For some fights in this game the reward just does not equal the stress it causes.

Oh.. it's Ultima hard? Here, I will write a short tutorial about everything you need to know.

Have your camera zoomed out as far as possible for this fight. Set focus target to Ultima, whether you are a dps, tank, or healer. You want to see when he is casting important moves.

Phase 1 (all primals): Fight behind him, wait for Garuda to pop. See which direction she is facing... go behind her, but make sure you are also at an angle with Ultima that his knockback won't 'push' you into her blast (he's tricky like that). Run back in, keep dpsing. The second the vortex spawns (purple), run to the edge of it. Wait. As soon as the vortex turns green and makes the little twister noise, run all the way to the edge. Wait for Titan to land. Run back and dps. Garuda will spawn again, do the same thing you did before... etc. The phase will end when you hear/see Garuda get 'pulled' out of Ultima's body.

Phase 2 (Titan+Ifrit): This phase is entirely made up of Eruptions and Weight of the Lands (plumes). The safest place to be in this phase is between the middle and the outer edge. That way, you won't have to run very far either way. If the first set of plumes spawn on the outside, go in, then run back out. They will always go either inside+outside or outside+inside. Keep an eye out for it -- don't get hit. The phase ends with Titan's body getting 'pulled' out of Ultima.

Phase 3 (Ifrit): This phase is a little tricky, and the first time it is nice to pay attention to Ultima's abilities. First he will use Eruptions on two people. If they are on you, run around in the back of the arena, careful not to mpk the healers or the tanks. After eruptions stop spawning, Ultima will use Tank Purge (big aoe). Be sort of near the healers to get heals after this. Then, plumes will spawn on the outer edge, and Ifrit will line up to dash across the arena. Get sight of Ifrit and move according to where he won't be when he dashes. Keep in mind that he dashes TWICE, with four set of plumes spawning. The plumes have a distinct, predictable pattern that you will eventually learn. The phase 'starts' over again with Eruptions. A typical group will make it through two full rotations of this phase before it ends with Ifrit being pulled out of Ultima.

Phase 4 (First bombs and magitek): Ultima will start this phase by using an ability that knocks everyone back. Orbs are attached to each other, and will slowly move toward the center until they meet and blow up. Your group has to explode them before that happens. Damage from the orbs will be divided between people who eat them. They are triggered by someone physically running into them, but they have a wide AoE. It is for this reason that the group will want to stand up in the 'path' of the orb (a few feet ahead of it) so that when it explodes, the whole party will eat it. Healers will keep you capped off. The OT will usually eat the second one, but if not, your group will have to move to the second set, stack up, and eat it as before.

Next, magitek adds will spawn in the center, with the creepy blue lines. Dps them hard until the huge AoE circles appear on your screen -- these are showing where meteors will fall. Run to the back of the arena with the group, stack up, but still avoid blue lines while meteors fall. After meteors fall, continue killing the magitek and then get back on Ultima. Avoid the bombs that he spawns, the lines that he uses... all typical dodging stuff.

Phase 5 (Second bombs and magitek): This phase begins when he pushes you back to the edge of the arena a second time. This time, there are three sets of orbs. Your group MUST eat two, and may eat three. As usual, stack up on the south one (a few feet ahead of its path). Eat it. Wait for healers to heal you. Stack up on the next one's path (groups usually go West), eat it... wait for heals. If the OT didn't kill the third set, then it is the group's job. Next, outside magitek will spawn. Kill the outside magitek bits... when you see the big aoe circles again, you must be as close to dead center of the map as possible to take the least amount of damage. However, those magitek bits will still be aiming at the whole party so make sure you dodge! Moving slightly off-center won't kill you, but getting hit by a bunch of magitek lines will. After that's over, kill the remaining bits and continue dpsing Ultima.

Phase 6 (Final bombs): This phase is where many groups have trouble. The second Ultima prepares his knockback move, one of your tanks will use tank LB. As soon as you are knocked back, your whole party must sprint through the bombs to blow them up ASAP. The tank LB will make it so you all take reduced damage, and shouldn't be hurt too hard from it. Remember... if you don't break all of the orbs right away, they will touch and explode... thus wiping your whole group! The rest of the fight is the same as before -- nothing special. If your dps is too slow, he will teleport to the center and cast Ultima... so do your best not to die, as he does have a hard enrage.

That's everything you need to know. Line up that text advice with a video, and you're good to go. I would suggest building your own party to gain experience, as DF parties usually hit a wall with progression.

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Originally Posted by Michiaiki

Ok, I just had an awful experience. Went into a Duty for the first time. I died, several times. I felt bad because I wasn't supporting the group. The whole party ended up wiping and I was berated for dying. So I asked where they wanted me and I tried to follow. I died twice more. What followed was a player commenting that I was, "Probably the worst player I've ever seen."

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While I would like to be sympathetic to your cause...you say here you died several times. Then you died two more times...

You have to understand that it is only natural for people to get frustrated at some point. This is peoples time you are wasting, and it sounds like you are crossing the line from 'new' and 'learning' to struggling to play the game. Do more research on the dungeon or boss fight before hand, and either join a FC willing to spend the time needed to teach you or recruit a party in Party Finder and label it learning group.

Thanks Ryuko, that is excellent help. I really appreciate it. Looks like I made it to the Ifrit stage and was just fried by him. I will print this out and watch the video.

Thanks again!

I wish you were on my server. We do runs all the time in my link shell and my free company of the main quest line stuff and the relic stuff. I can totally sympathize with your frustration. It takes time to learn the mechanics of these fights! I leveled a paladin to 50 first, and believe me when I say its an entirely different fight than it is for my bard. I have really had my eyes opened to some of the difficulty's DPS face on various fights! If you ever server transfer then consider Goblin. We have a great group of people who help others and you would be more than welcome. This past weekend 2 players helped over 20 people with relics. Wipe after wipe, new player or bad player or 5th relic.. it didn't matter. They pushed through and made sure it happened. Not enough dps? No drama bring in a ringer to offset the lack and run it 2-3 times. Players keep dying? No problem.. lets talk it out and make sure everyone knows the dance. THATS the type of experience you should have had.

I was in a Cutter's Cry group just yesterday, which can be kind of an unforgiving dungeon to newbies, especially the Chimera fight at the end. We made it through without a hitch until the last boss, wiped several times because the healer kept getting the blue and violet eyes mixed up, but we kept cool heads and kept on keepin' on. After giving her a few tips and calming her down with some kind words, she was able to keep a level head and get through the fight just fine. It took us nearly to the very end of the dungeon timer to complete it, but we got it done, and it felt all the more satisfying for it; finding your patience to help other people learn content can be exceedingly rewarding!

Frustration is one thing, but it is never okay to insult a player for being a little more slow to learn, especially in a pugged DF group, so try not to let those people get you down! Not everyone learns at the same pace, it might take you ten, or twenty, or even thirty derp deaths before you finally get on your feet, and that's okay, no matter what anyone says, but you will, unfortunately, get jerks who don't believe or understand that. Have you considered searching for a nice, patient, helpful Free Company? Sometimes that can make all the difference.

Ultima requires the group to pay attention, and your mistake on orbs can actually kill other players.

If you need time to learn, that is one thing- but if you want to see the fight and learn on the fly- then you have be a fast learner. If you are a slow learner- watch videos.

If you know you have a limitation, then don't impose it on the group. That is just setting the group up for failure. There's nothing wrong with wanting to learn in your own way- but players should not place undue expectations on other players to accommodate their play style.

If you don't even bother to look at any strats or videos, than you shouldn't be joining up in DFs. You aren't on the cutting edge of discovering how things work. It's your responsibility to know fights that are labeled hard or extreme. They are labeled as such for a reason. Calling you the worst player ever is a bit harsh, but I'd vote to kick someone who didn't know a fight at all, unless it was in a PF or FC group that clearly knew you were going in to learn the run.

I never get why people resort to negative feedback when someone is learning how to actually become acquainted with mechanics. Can't we all remember back to the time we were learning how to survive and that feeling you got for finally winning? How about the attitude you had towards the people that stuck with you until the end?

That sense of comradary.. That sense of accomplishment that trumps everything that someone could possibly feel by belittling and insulting someone.

Go do a party in progress and help that group that had impatient people quit on them or help explain your tactics or what you did to help you win and explain it to them like you're on a team and not like you're above them. Just show patience, kindness, and understanding. Basically it's how YOU would like to be treated yourself.

This is simple people. Things feel so much better when everyone gets stuff done because you all worked together and you show everyone the good side of humanity.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1909163/

Spirit bond Gear or Normal Gear??

If you are using Crafted Spear , you need to be focused on a Relic Grind before progression.

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Originally Posted by Ed_N_Ants

if you play like shit i boot people... Glad i'm not on your server, my server knows I am a special snow flake with the healing skills to back up my non video watching choice... I don't boot people who suck, I work with them to make them better... That's the difference between people like me and people like you... People like me try to help people progress because its a rewarding feeling... People like you want to see yourself progress because it's YOUR rewarding feeling...

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Isn't playing like shiz and sucking the same thing?

And as far as the OP goes, if someone constantly wipes like that without improving / asking questions or watching a video, I simply leave. Not worth wasting my time because someone else fails to learn the fight / watch a video. Not worth berating someone, rather just eat the penalty and mine or something.

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Originally Posted by Michiaiki

I died, several times... Give those of us who don't catch on immediately a chance.

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Joke thread?

A simple way to learn Ultima Hard is to go do "The Praetorium," and instead of face-tanking everything Ultima does during the fight and letting the fight mechanics/healers cover for you, focus on dodging every attack as best as possible. And then go do Ifrit Hard until you can successfully dodge Ifrits charge attack for three runs straight. Then its just a matter of recognizing Ultima's pattern, which is like Titan in that it (almost) never changes (the "changes" only affect tank).

I realize that this might seem super obvious, and it's turned into a meme on the forums due to something that Yoshi-P said, but I do recommend making sure for all boss encounters you are zoomed out as far as possible so you can see everything that's going on around you.

A lot of people new to MMOs tend to be zoomed in on their character and it makes the gameplay much, much harder.

My wife joined one Ultima HM as a WHM, she never went in as WHM in the past but as a BLM and had no problems, her main is healer so she wanted to learn the battle as a healer.
Anyways she went in through party finder and she got the group killed twice since there was lots of moving and was hard for her to learn the healing part during the 2nd laser phase.
Just to be clear on how they wiped, the tank didn't run into the center just stayed when the airships came down so she had to heal the group + the tank, she got the group healed but couldn't keep up the heal on the MT and he dies, then OT goes in but dies. I play tank class as main, done lots of Ultima HM and I always run to the middle when the airships comes down and never died during that phase... so I was telling my wife it's probably the tanks, not her but anyways... (I wasn't with my wife's PT, was doing CT run)

Wife asked the party if there was better position or any tips on that part, the group said there is one solution to this and without saying anything kicked her out the party.

It was one f***ed up move by those guys, got all of their names, and the PT leader... some of these people are just jerks.

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Originally Posted by ninesunz

One of the first dungeons i ever joined, i think it was stone vigil, i was told to quit and uninstall the game lmao
Every time I did something new i was pretty much getting yelled at by someone

I don't like to watch fights in advance, that's how i like to play

So i just ignore the bs and keep doing my thing, cause it makes me happy

happiness is the name of the game

BOOM!

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So you went into coil blind with no knowledge of anything and just learned ALL the mechanics on your own or with the rest of like minded people?

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Originally Posted by Desidious

Things feel so much better when everyone gets stuff done because you all worked together and you show everyone the good side of humanity.

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Because constantly making that kind of investment for players you will never see again is pointless and tiresome.

Sure, sometimes it's fine and not an issue- but when it constantly happens it gets old- fast.

Working together does not mean that you ignore pro-active learning and expect everyone to be held back because you refuse to familiarize yourself with mechanics ahead of time. That is being selfish and not a group player. Expecting 7 others to accommodate your playstyle is not doing things "together".

Kick just because of gear? No, that's bs...but someone who intentionally refuses to learn.. or who is a slow learner and therefore is expecting to use everyone else's time to train? No.

As long as you tried to help is really all that matters in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

My wife

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What about the other healer? I'm not sure how she was the only one being blamed for the tank being killed.

Threads like this really do bring out the 'best' (cough) in the community

Good luck Michiaiki, another tip, dont do the hard stuff when tired

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

What about the other healer? I'm not sure how she was the only one being blamed for the tank being killed.

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All I know is the other one was a Scholar, and he/she didn't talk at all, maybe friends and they talking via voice chat or w/e. I'm not sure why it was only my wife being kicked and she's done enough Ultima HM wins on her BLM.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

All I know is the other one was a Scholar, and he/she didn't talk at all, maybe friends and they talking via voice chat or w/e. I'm not sure why it was only my wife being kicked and she's done enough Ultima HM wins on her BLM.

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Just read the post... People don't give a shit about hel;ping people they care about the performance and people wasting THEIR TIME... This thread was started for a noob to explain he wants to get better and it's became a you need to get better you need to watch videos you need to not suck... Your wasting my time, your wasting everyones time, you take the fun from this game because you suck... Its like society screw everyone else as long as I can line my pockets with gold...

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Originally Posted by Ed_N_Ants

Just read the post... People don't give a shit about hel;ping people they care about the performance and people wasting THEIR TIME... This thread was started for a noob to explain he wants to get better and it's became a you need to get better you need to watch videos you need to not suck... Your wasting my time, your wasting everyones time, you take the fun from this game because you suck... Its like society screw everyone else as long as I can line my pockets with gold...

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You are so bitter...it hurts my head.

In Reinhearts situation, things like that are sometimes unavoidable. You are going to run in to players who are assholes. Just need to brush it off; Ultima HM, Titan, Ifrit ex are all very hard fights for healers.


If I get in to a run and one or a few people are consistently dying to the same mechanic then I leave, it is simply a waste of time to stay. If I made the group and the same is happening I will not waste my time the time of other players for the sake of maybe, just maybe, these players can start dodge. You can't teach someone to dodge. You can help them with positioning and phase transitions(videos don't always explain this) but not how to dodge a plum.

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Originally Posted by Tazo

So you went into coil blind with no knowledge of anything and just learned ALL the mechanics on your own or with the rest of like minded people?

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Is this an alien concept to you? It's what me and my groups had to do in coil when the game first came out, in fact it felt great beating turn 1-4 with no prior knowledge, everything we did was stuff we had to figure out ourselves. Turn 5 kinda pooped on us, but then again it pooped on everyone pre-nerf, and kept getting shutdown - but we still tried to learn what we could. It's kinda sad if you have to wait for videos to even /try/ content.

I apologise if i misunderstood the point you tried to make, but it sounds like you find it hard to believe people actually try things without being hand held by step-by-step guides.

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Originally Posted by Totobi

Is this an alien concept to you? It's what me and my groups had to do in coil when the game first came out, in fact it felt great beating turn 1-4 with no prior knowledge, everything we did was stuff we had to figure out ourselves. Turn 5 kinda pooped on us, but then again it pooped on everyone pre-nerf, and kept getting shutdown - but we still tried to learn what we could. It's kinda sad if you have to wait for videos to even /try/ content.

I apologise if i misunderstood the point you tried to make, but it sounds like you find it hard to believe people actually try things without being hand held by step-by-step guides.

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Yea, you misunderstood it. My others posts in the thread will clear this up.

I am aware that people who get their hands on fresh content are the ones who come up with the strategies first and the rest pick those up and tweak them to fit their groups. I did the same thing and had a great time messing around with new content in 2.1.

My response was to the MNK that has allagan pieces and saying he likes to play the content without doing any form of research on the mechanics of the fight. For example if he has currently never set foot in T5, he would go in blind without any knowledge and just 'wing' it and learn it by himself, like it has just been released. Hope this clears up the confusion.

If you want to learn a fight properly, you need to get yourself a static group of sorts (free company or linkshell). Don't go in with people you've never met and expect them to not rage when things go badly.

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Originally Posted by Tazo

Yea, you misunderstood it. My others posts in the thread will clear this up.

I am aware that people who get their hands on fresh content are the ones who come up with the strategies first and the rest pick those up and tweak them to fit their groups. I did the same thing and had a great time messing around with new content in 2.1.

My response was to the MNK that has allagan pieces and saying he likes to play the content without doing any form of research on the mechanics of the fight. For example if he has currently never set foot in T5, he would go in blind without any knowledge and just 'wing' it and learn it by himself, like it has just been released. Hope this clears up the confusion.

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I apologize again then, i guess i lacked the context and/or didn't see the sarcasm xD