Bring back open world NM/HNM - Reinheart's version

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

First off I've done enough NM/HNM from XI days and I'm sick and tired of it.

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lol you don't need to start off with that to please the average generic MMO players on these forums. Anything unique should be upheld, tho the implementation in XI was harsh, the idea was awesome.

Well i don't think that we will have this kind of content in FFXIV sadly, they said that we were going to have group guildleves, i still don't see them, Treasure hunting was suppose to be for 8 players, except that you can easily do it with 2 or 3 people.

Having things like raid rifts in Rift would be nice but i don't see it happens soon, they seem to want us to do endgame in instances only.

We had it, I think we even had it in the beta, no wait what I remember was 1.0. Strolling through La noscea spear fishing away (I. Want. That. Back.) And Suddenly I see a BIG thing roaming around, with a name, check it online, a rare nm ... just a bit over my Level. Lets give it a try.
I was laughing tears while it ripped me a new one. It was was an awesome experience. Now everything is blunt cookie cutter.

(this will be a 2 parter thanks to size limitations =.=)

How I would say it can work.
If Worldboss like, so everyone can attack it. Don't have it in a Fate. When someone wants to fight it, he shall look for it. Claiming person, when not in Party, unable to join or form a party (why see later). Now everybody whacks away on it. Everybody will get a percentage of how much damage is done, how it is done with people joining late I can't say.
Worldboss dies now treasure time. *snip*

*going on*

1) Person that first claimed it. Will get a special price, even after dieing as long as no zoning was done it has a timestamp. That price is a random item including loot that has a 0.1% of the loot pool. And an additional "ticket" to one of the other drops of the pool.
2) MVP gets loot. with a higher percentage. So instead of 0.1% maybe 5%. But no extra ticket.
3) Apart from those doing not enough action on the Boss to make any progress on it, everybody will get something.

Let it have, lets say 4 Treasurepools. 1) General with meh to good items 2) good items to woa items 3) Awesome Items 4) Special Items only obtainable by this fight, vanity and normal, something nice to have but more meant as "you tried hard so you get candy"

If not attackable by everyone. Lets say take Odin out of Fate and to survive some of his attacks you need to /kneel towards him.

NM/HNMs in FFXI were simply horrible. The only reason why we endured that shit for years in FFXI was because they dropped the best loot in the game, so no, I don't want to see that system ever again.

More open world content would be great, but it should function around a pop item system like Treasure Hunting and Levequests. It should not be based on retarded claiming wars where the best bot wins.

Vanity stuff or furniture would be ok with me, but I'd still prefer it to be in FATE format instead of having to claim it against other people. Although, I wouldn't mind if they set this up as a Duty like Faction Leves in 1.0 where you can have 8 (or 24 when they flesh out the premade alliance system) people use credits or something to fight these strong NMs. The problem with FFXI's stuff is that the gear drops were the best for a long time and that's what led to competition, botting and loot drama.

On another note, SE needs to add MORE content like Behemoth and Odin. The Sagolii Desert is a huge wasteland and is a prime candidate for a HNM encounter. Bad enough that the timers for Odin and Behemoth are typically when I'm sleeping or at work and hardly ever get to see them unless their spawn times fall during the weekend.

I would really love to see this.

My FC just had a lengthy conversation about what there is for all 30-40 active members could do together and there isn't really a good answer.
The nature of binding coil demands you have a largely static group if you hope to progress with any alacrity; crystal tower, while fun, does not allow you to queue with a full alliance and neither is it especially challenging.

Where XI was almost entirely open world, almost in an overreaction to XI 95% of all content in this game is done through the duty finder, in instances that pull from several servers and as a result there isn't that same sense of community as it has been sacrificed for convenience of play time. That is not a condemnation by the way, merely an observation.

XI had Sky/sea/znm/hnm and all sorts open world activities. These were all things we could do in groups from 4-40 while we farmed stuff, or fought big HNMs collectively as a linkshell. I know none of that came out at launch, and I don't know that any of them entirely fits in this game. But it feels like a shame for a world that has literally been rebuilt from scratch, to be little more than a lobby server for me to twiddle my thumbs in while i peruse the party finder for a trial that I want or for the duty finder to ping.

I agree though that I don't want a big fate style content in open world; Odin and Behemoth are a mess which basically boils down to drop everything you're doing, get there as fast as you can, and cross your fingers you'll get gold so you can get some useless vanity item. Something against a large but still finite number of players like XI style HNMs that requires just an ounce of strategy in the open world would be nice.

Like to see something added to open world nm/hnm with different options to unlock the fights. SE just adding them to fates really doesnt give any challege when you have tons of player wacking away at odin or behemoth. Vanity gear and housing items are nice but I would like them to expand on the concept or tier of new type of materia which boost a jobs ability or enhances them also add item drops which crafter's need to craft with top end gear to unlock slot's to be able attach them. I hate to a point of the vertical progress on gear instead getting rid of that old gear for the fresh new one have it where the crafter could fuse the old gear into the new with certain rare item to give the new version a % buff to new gear well the my 2 cents anyways lol.

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Originally Posted by Iymala

I would love to see something like this implemented. Apart from the daily areas, the world is a ghost town.

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This. I don't care what they do but they need to give the zones a reason to exist. The closer to 50 you get the less reason you have to EVER leave town and it shows even on populated servers the world feels dead but most of all pointless to explore.

Ew vanity drops on elite mobs/world bosses
/shudder

At this point, I'm game for open world anything that isn't a fate.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

Ew vanity drops on elite mobs/world bosses
/shudder

At this point, I'm game for open world anything that isn't a fate.

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I understand that it would be nice if good gear drops from NM/HNM but doing that is going to cause drama on the open world, reason why I think it's better with stuff that's not useful towards increasing your player stats but instead something really cool that everyone would want their hands on but requires team effort (atleast for HNM)

Once they can do the HNM's right maybe use the Dhroma Chimera style instance where it's section of a open world map to do HNM Hard Mode or Ex Mode with good gear drops then it'll be less drama. Like regular HNM drops HNM tokens you collect 5 to get HNM HM battle token or something, just an idea.

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Originally Posted by Soulscare

Why put your name in the title like your opinion bears some special significance? >.>

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I'm not one to try and raise someone up higher than anyone else. However the man translates information from Japanese to English (for free) that never gets translated later by the devs. Let that sink in a little bit.

Maybe they could tie treasure hunt or another system like it into this. The idea would be to get a treasure map, use it to spawn an NM that your FC takes on, which drops a pop item that can't be sold on auction. Your FC would use this item to spawn the next tier. I didn't get too much into HNM's in FFXI but I think the idea I'm getting at was called ZNM's on that game?

They should bring back the NM leves.
The normal leves can give points again (around 10 points each leve). If you have earned enough points (500 - 900) you can buy a special leve in the adventure guild.
This special leve spawn then a NM that only the party from the leve starter can fight (no change to the current claim system is needed).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg0T5UHO8kY

They can also bring the other special leves back, that was funny. Like 2 bosses that need to be killed in 10 minutes and are on opposite places of the zone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLB1F6gIIHk

Or a leve where you need to reach a NPC in a very short time and there are aggro monsters on the way which you don't should attack because the timer would run out. But they attack you if you don't sneak past them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXzXgYxIEeg

Another example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN-KeG54smI

In short, the tool for open world content with no zerg-fest and claim-war is already here. SE need only to build on it (again).

It's like Reinheart said, FATE's aren't bad things. They're quite fun and all but simply doesn't work for NM/HNM. The problem with Behemot and Odin(and many other of the singular NM types) are that we're fighting a single opponent who just stands there and take our hits. No special gimmicks, no breaks, only the occasional dodge and Odin is the rare case where one needs to destroy his lances(even though I have no clue what they even do!)

All the NM/HNM FATE are dull, boring, bland. As people said, you just faceroll over the keyboard and still win. Simply because you're backed up by the entire server(manner of speaking) bashing on that one NM. There's honestly only two things that those NM/HNM FATE needs.

1) Make things less chaotic and more clear.

Let's all admit, NM/HNM FATE battles are nothing more than a big firework explosion show. Yes we can turn those down in the option but then things become dull. Most of the time, I don't even see what is going on or what attack is coming my way. I'm to this day still not satisfied with the ingame battle fx. Still too flashy to my taste but oh well.


2) Immersion & Pacing

I honestly believe this to be the major issue of it all. What I would love to see from those NM's is a better sense of immersion. But MOST DEFINATELY PACING. To elaborate on this. During all NM fates we just stand there and keep hitting said NM until he dies.

Why? Because the NM will never move around or do things that break the pace of the battle. NM's should take flight in the air, making them invulnerable as they summon their minions or cast their attacks from a safe place. Breaking the pace of the battle where we just stand there and whack the same thing. Make us do something else, make us take a breather, anything that breaks the monotony of just standing there.


I'm going to take 3 examples for this.

Good examples: Svara/Ghorghimera

This is a FATE that stands out among all in my opinion. A multi-stage FATE that leads to the final destination and battle against Svara. During the final two stages, mobs spawn quite spread out from each other. Creating an actual feel of a battle and providing way less clutter. The final battle against Svara himself also has his minions spawn throughout the secluded battlefield. Again serving t spread people around. While Ghorghimera who is just a static HNM still has his adds that spawn and his voices and breaths that still prove it a challenge.

Bad example: Odin/Behemot

Both of them just...pop. No build up, no anticipation, nothing. We just engage and gang up on them. Whacking our weapons on their bodies as if it was a random lynching. Even making poor Behemoth run to his hideout while we chase after him with our torches and pitching forks to keep bullying him down, steal his horns and trade for silly gear.

Example to slightly improve behemot:

- Make him climb the mountain that we saw him roaring from on the trailer during the fight. Let him stay there as he keeps summoning tons of tornadoes, drop boulders, summon minions. And during the chaos of dodging and/or killing, make Behemot jump back down amidst the crowd sending everyone flying away.


Guild Wars 2 excelled in these FATE like encounters. Because they did this right. The large battles were engaging, had different phases, built up nicely, required different things. You were rarely just standing there being bored. S-E can learn from them.

Whatever happened to the roaming primals an FC has to defeat, train up to full power and then be able to summon once in battle, changing the weather worldwide? "Primals will be nothing like in 1.23!", they said, "Better farm your primal weapons now!", they said.

Yes, please make it open world. It felt really short traveling to places. I know for some people, it seems like it could be so far away, but there's teleports and chocobos. I just love riding chocobos and taking a stroll in an open world. Maybe add airships or make chocobos flyable like in FFIX that stays a little closer to the map rather than above it.

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Originally Posted by Velthice

The only thing I know about him is he has bad ideas that involve the revival of NMs.

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How can adding NMs be a bad idea? I personally would love something to do other than level and dungeons... Well i guess there is pvp but... :rolleyes:

The NMs in 1.0 spawned about every three minutes and dropped a variety of different gear. I still have a ton if it. Bring something like that back. It was really fun getting a few friends together to hunt NMs and the respawn time was fantastic.

I always like the ToAU Zeni NM system of XI. well without the photo taking part, but the general idea of the tiered system. killing something, getting access to something stronger and so. and with a bit of luck you could even fight a real monster at the end (hey Pandemonium Warden, hopefully not as stupid as this one though) Of course you either have to limit how often you could fight those mobs or bring back the well known SE drop rates.

I am 90% with you Reinheart, well my only Point is that NMs / HNMs /Gods should reward Players a bit more then just vanity, for me vanity isnt any Kind of interesting at all.

I would like to add some Ideas how i would bring in NMs / HNMs and Gods

Solo NM's
Respawn: 5 Minutes
Location: Open World
Level Range: 10,20,30,40,50
Rewards: Good looking Weapons/Armors for all Jobs


Group NM's
Respawn: as often you have enough Leves to do the Leve Chain
Location: Open World - Leve Chain
Rewards: Emblems Level 50 Jobs only**
** Emblems can be added like an Accesoiry Slot, one per Job, there are different Emblems they either Enhance one of your Passive Skills like "Enhanced Blood for Blood by additional 5%" or add you something like "Enhanced Skill Speed by 5%" or Adds a Chance to deal Bonus Damage by 10% of your Basic Attack Power from the Skill" <- this are just examples!!!

Alliance HNMs/Gods:

Triggers (Diffitcult and how it could Look):
Roaming Monsters Level 65 in a new Zone, they can be killed by 16 Players. The Monsters there are common and have a low droprate for the Trigger item, sometimes when you are lucky enought a NM will Pop up and get automatical claimed by the Group who killed the last Monster from this type.This NM can spawn every 15-30 Minutes, random on each Kill. Triggers cannot be sold or traded, one Trigger per Character. The Common Mobs will respawn every 5 Minutes there are 4 Different camps which 4 different types of Mobs, every camp can hold up to 5 full Alliances

HNMs and Gods(Diffitcult and how it could Look):
HNMs and Gods can only be killed by 20-24 Players, after trading the specific Triggers to the ??? it will disapear for 10 Minutes and will respawn 10 minutes later or with the kill of the current HNM/God. There are 5 HNM/Gods, 4 of them can be spawned via specific Triggers, while the last one getting spawned over the Triggers from the previous 4 HNMs/Gods.

Location:
Open World - New Zone

Rewards:
Spawn Triggers for Endboss 100%, the same Items you can get with the highest possible instanced Raid so lets say Ilevel 110 with patch 2.2 just with different design but with exactly the same stats.

Rules:
Possible Drops are RNG, no 100% drop Chance from HNMs/Gods expect the next higher Tier Trigger.

If a Party failes to kill the Boss (Wipe) the HNM/God will getting unclaimed for 1 Minute before it will depop. It is not possible to get hate from this Mob expect you are in the Alliance they spawned the Boss.

*End*

This are just Ideas, atleast with this Kind of System i would going to resub the game :P
Well since the called Minority of the Game just likes Open WOrld and RNG, i dont see the Problem to get 2 same Armors with the same stats just with 2 different designs, the one endgame Content is for the instanced fans, and the other is for the People they enjoy farming hard for their items and want to be busy for more then 1 day in a week.

Instanced: 2x 100% Droprates a week for each Turn
Open World HNM/Gods: SE's Random Number Generator drop System, hours of Farming and Killing for more or less Items depending on the acticity of the Players of their Endgame FC.

i dont want to camp Nms , but force pops are cool , or use Leves to pop Nms (lvl 20 = 2 leves to pop , lvl 50 = 5 leves )

farm golems get a pop and go click ??? , boom nm spawns , claimed of course :D

I will be leaving this game in next few months if it continues on instancing everything.. bad idea, open world will make Eorzea truly beautiful :)

Somebody random makes for do suggest of HNM:

"OMG no way! Waste of time! Botters! Elitists! Content not available to everyone!"

Reinheart makes for do suggest of HNM:

"OMG yes please! Awesome time spent! Yay gear! Super amazing!"

Does anyone else make for see problem of situation?

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

This game is missing open world, and some people brought up the bring back the open world NM/HNM but this is my version. Don't bring in gears/weapons we got those already, bring in some best looking stuff, stuff you can brag about to everyone. Also it'll bring back achievements for hunting down NM's leading to other possibilities.

And no... no FATE for this, have it locked down, just like the guild leve on the single party or alliance (if we get form alliance command) if they wipe, others can pull.

What do you all think?

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I would love to see this return. Personally I can't stand FATES, its pretty much just a pile of people mashing abilities over and over with a lot of lag going on (E.g Odin, Behemoth).

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Originally Posted by MurakumoMillennium

Somebody random makes for do suggest of HNM:

"OMG no way! Waste of time! Botters! Elitists! Content not available to everyone!"

Reinheart makes for do suggest of HNM:

"OMG yes please! Awesome time spent! Yay gear! Super amazing!"

Does anyone else make for see problem of situation?

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There isn't one, everyone else suggested XI, Reinheart suggested something different that involved HNM.

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Originally Posted by Kona4me

I will be leaving this game in next few months if it continues on instancing everything.. bad idea, open world will make Eorzea truly beautiful :)

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In order to have open world content we should get bigger areas.