Being Reported on by a known bot

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Originally Posted by Lego3400

As for the op. There are are 2 large LGBT FCs on excalibur. I suggest you transfer off before half the sever comes to hate you.

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This is the better way of handling it rather than a daddy figure coming in and saying "dont you be saying bad as hings Jr."

so we have an unconfirmed bot and confirmed homophobic language and SE didn't come down on the side of the homophobe?

colour me shocked (shocked is a simply fabulous shade of pink FYI)

Very interesting views on what you should and shouldn't be allowed to say online. I think the difficult thing is to understand that what some people find fairly innocuous, others find extremely harmful and offensive.

Freedom of speech is an ideal, in reality there are many limitations placed on this supposed freedom. America is one example. America upholds freedom of speech but does not in anyway endorse it as an absolute, say whatever you g'damn like right of the people. Those people who want to tout the freedom of speech as a means to endorse abusive behavior are simply put, wrong.

3.3 Profanity and Offensive Language. You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive. The Game is for players aged 13 and older. You agree to behave accordingly.

Now, the problem is that some of us do not understand what a reasonable person would find offensive.

May I just ask, why would someone want to bot in PvP and what exactly is the bot doing in there?
Crafting, hunting and gathering. Those I can understand (and have seen plenty of), but PvP?
Also, what evidence do you have of this person botting?

Also, I think it's pretty funny how the suspected bot already got peoples support in here, even FC invites :P
Don't get me wrong, I'm against hateful language but I'm even more against botting. I can blacklist rude people after all.

I suppose investigating a bot takes longer than investigating your chat log and seeing your bad language in there. That should explain how you got a warning faster than the botter did.

Also for the people who are all "freedom of speech" - lol.
No, not freedom of speech. This is an online game that is being played by many kinds of countries, cultures, ages etc etc, if your little child played this game, would you like him to see and learn all the bad words and languages being said? I know I wouldn't. And I hope SE would keep handing warnings to people curse and swear. OP could just report that bot and be done with that, cursing and swearing at him was not needed at all.

The community is enough toxic as it is.

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Originally Posted by Tsurupettan

I know the player you are referring to personally and he shared some screenshots with me.

You may have left out some vital details. You say "aggressive language," the screenshots say something that rhymes with "mucking maggot." He actually is a gay male who is terrified of coming out, so great job. I dont know what caused you to use such hateful language, but i do know its not the first time you have been verbally hostile towards him.

Was it his all pink armor that caused your disgusting outburst? You should know he undyed it so he doesnt have to face the same kind of intolerance in-game as he does in school.

As a gay woman working in a male dominated culture, you are the kind of HATE i am most afraid of.

As far as I can tell you got off too easy.
I'm sure you have been a lot more careful with how you treat others. I guess the system does work!

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Wow, hmm. I can guarantee you with 95.555 percent certainty that the OP in know way had any inkling of the sexual orientation of this player. This post is so riddled with unnecessary attempts to guilt and shame the OP.
Even if that was what he said, the majority of the time that's thrown around there is no sexual orientation hate behind it. Hate maybe, but even hate is not always behind those words.
I often say "that's gay" in regards to something stupid. Does that mean I think being gay or gay people are stupid? No of course not. But I suppose I would be reported for that huh?
These forums are not the United States, so freedom of speech arguments are moot.

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Originally Posted by Sziadan

May I just ask, why would someone want to bot in PvP and what exactly is the bot doing in there?

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You are make for get experience and spiritbond even with lose of battle.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

confirmed homophobic language

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It are no for confirm because 1 post only person no for show screenshots they make claim for have.

Also even if it were for be true, OP are no homophobe because he no for fear them, only hate (which he are not).

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Originally Posted by Tsurupettan

I know the player you are referring to personally and he shared some screenshots with me.

You may have left out some vital details. You say "aggressive language," the screenshots say something that rhymes with "mucking maggot." He actually is a gay male who is terrified of coming out, so great job. I dont know what caused you to use such hateful language, but i do know its not the first time you have been verbally hostile towards him.

Was it his all pink armor that caused your disgusting outburst? You should know he undyed it so he doesnt have to face the same kind of intolerance in-game as he does in school.

As a gay woman working in a male dominated culture, you are the kind of HATE i am most afraid of.

As far as I can tell you got off too easy.
I'm sure you have been a lot more careful with how you treat others. I guess the system does work!

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Serious? So the OP was suppose to ask your friend about his personal life first before insulting him? The problem here is not LGBT problem so stop trying to make it so, unless you have clear evidence that the OP knew the personal life of this guy you are trying to defend. From my point of view you are way out of place. Stick to the facts, what OP did is wrong wither it was aimed at a straight person or gay, you have no right to hijack the thread into another case of homophobia. Insults and verbal abuse knows no gender or sexuality.

OP, stick to reporting players whom you think are botting, verbal abuse is not going to get you anywhere, and the GM for sure did the right thing.

It does not matter what was the insult, verbal abuse is disgusting and it is absolutely wrong in any shape or form regardless of the victim race, sexuality and gender.

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Originally Posted by Jonjon

Wow, hmm. I can guarantee you with 95.555 percent certainty that the OP in know way had any inkling of the sexual orientation of this player.

Even if that was what he said, the majority of the time that's thrown around there is no sexual orientation hate behind it. Hate maybe, but even hate is not always behind those words.

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Except the term in question is a derogatory term for a male homosexual, you might say it out of hate, and inadvertently really offend someone which is why this kind of language shouldn't be used, it's like throwing around racial slur, then trying to defend yourself saying "How did I know you were from xxx minority" would you do that? Probably not then why should derogatory homophobic terms be thrown around in the same manner?

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

Serious? So the OP was suppose to ask your friend about his personal life first before insulting him?

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Even if the victim wasn't homosexual it is still homophobic (homophobes have an aversion to homosexuality, this means both hate AND fear, before someone tries to derail with etymology lessons that doesn't apply to modern use of the word) to use their sexual orientation as an insult against straight people (in the same way saying "you play like a girl!" to a man is sexist) because it reinforces that existing while LGBT is bad (or it wouldn't be insulting). Also, this is the internet; you don't know the person on the other side of the screen, so don't use language that have traditionally featured in hate speeches, violence and crime. Stick with the general insults if you feel so strongly about having to insult someone over a game.

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Originally Posted by Norna

Even if the victim wasn't homosexual it is still homophobic (homophobes have an aversion to homosexuality, this means both hate AND fear, before someone tries to derail with etymology lessons that doesn't apply to modern use of the word) to use their sexual orientation as an insult against straight people (in the same way saying "you play like a girl!" to a man is sexist) because it reinforces that existing while LGBT is bad (or it wouldn't be insulting). Also, this is the internet; you don't know the person on the other side of the screen, so don't use language that have traditionally featured in hate speeches, violence and crime. Stick with the general insults if you feel so strongly about having to insult someone over a game.

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Did you just ignore everything I wrote? It does not matter what was the insult, verbal abuse is disgusting and it is absolutely wrong in any shape or form regardless of the victim race, sexuality and gender.

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Originally Posted by Norna

Even if the victim wasn't homosexual it is still homophobic (homophobes have an aversion to homosexuality, this means both hate AND fear, before someone tries to derail with etymology lessons that doesn't apply to modern use of the word)

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It are no a phobia because it are no a fear of homosexuals. It are hate not scared.

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

Did you just ignore everything I wrote? It does not matter what was the insult, verbal abuse is disgusting and it is absolutely wrong in any shape or form regardless of the victim race, sexuality and gender.

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Ah, sorry! Your quote was conflated with another poster's quote (and when I was erasing and separating quotes the other quote and the answer I had to your post seems to have been erased and I didn't notice due to using the Quick Reply field, which isn't very tall, with your quote, I was actually going to pick out the don't insult anyone part and add "I agree with this" to it). And yeah, I also agree that no one, no matter how close friends they are, should out another person. Erm, I'll go back and edit now...

EDIT because my internet hates me and wont let me edit the other post and half of this disappeared (anyone else having this issue, or is it just my internet?): Even so, certain language and terms are uniquely aimed at certain groups of people that face discrimination (even if none of them are involved in the argument), so even if you take a color, gender and sexuality-blind view on it, everyone should still recognize that.

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Originally Posted by MurakumoMillennium

It are no a phobia because it are no a fear of homosexuals. It are hate not scared.

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Homophobia is an umbrella term that encompasses hate as well, it's a bit unique in the -phobia designations in that way. And the modern use of the word reflects this. It is often considered a derailment to bring up the "fear" historical meaning of the word in a discussion of hateful homophobia.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

Freedom of Speech does NOT mean Freedom of Consequence.

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THIS.

I'm not going to comment on the dispute with the OP and this supposed botter but the way people are throwing 'Freedom of Speech' around in here is troubling.

Freedom of Speech does NOT mean Freedom of Consequence. Most free governments allow freedom of speech but you WILL be held to account for what you say. It is no different in America yet for some reason Americans often cite that right as a means of justifying their abuse of others. If you use homophobic language (regardless of whether or not you're speaking to a gay person) you are technically committing a hate crime; that supercedes any 'freedom of speech' in the same way that religious hatred or racism do.

God I love these forums. The thread starts as a way of pointing out the hypocrisy of botters/hackers never being punished while legitimate players get banned for swearing, and by page two it's a slamfest on the OP for dropping an f-bomb in a game with a language filter.

You people are amazing, I've seen pit-bulls with more self-restraint.

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

God I love these forums. The thread starts as a way of pointing out the hypocrisy of botters/hackers never being punished while legitimate players get banned for swearing, and by page two it's a slamfest on the OP for dropping an f-bomb in a game with a language filter.

You people are amazing, I've seen pit-bulls with more self-restraint.

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The thread starter still didn't provide any sort of information on why he/she/it believe the other player is a bot. Are we supposed to take the OP's word as gospel on that the other player is a bot/using bot tools without any sort of evidence?
We do however have the OP's own word that he/she/it was harassing the supposed bot. Harassing is against the ToS regardless of target.

Verbal harassment is also against the rules, and is a great deal easier to prove than botting activity.

Don't mistake my intent tho. No white knighting here - just some perspective. Everyone knows SE is by far the most inept/slow company when actually dealing with RMT, hackers and exploiters. The criminals probably don't even break a sweat, knowing that the company they evade just doesn't give a crap.

It's rather sickening. Welp, carry on.♪

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

The thread starter still didn't provide any sort of information on why he/she/it believe the other player is a bot. Are we supposed to take the OP's word as gospel on that the other player is a bot/using bot tools without any sort of evidence?
We do however have the OP's own word that he/she/it was harassing the supposed bot. Harassing is against the ToS regardless of target.

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"The guy hacking is innocent until proven guilty, but saying f*ck is clearly abuse, BURN THE OP AT THE STAKE."

And you don't even realize how hypocritical this is...

I love these forums so much.

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

"The guy hacking is innocent until proven guilty, but saying f*ck is clearly abuse, BURN THE OP AT THE STAKE."

And you don't even realize how hypocritical this is...

I love these forums so much.

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You do understand that for bots they need to investigate the issue to ensure innocent players don't get banned, whereas offensive language is easy to investigate, they pull up the chat logs of the player in question.

Also we aren't talking about the F word, we are talking about the homophobic language apparently used by the OP.

Am I the only one who finds it backwards that cursing is considered bad while we can pretty much run around nude and do some almost certain R-rated actions with our toons?
Not that I want the game to be totally full of prudish rules, but I say either makes everything PG-13 or don't but don't do half and half, it's just confusing.

As far as the botting subject goes (my desperate attempt to keep on topic :p), from some of the stories I've heard about the staff, it sounds like SE needs a new GM team.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

You do understand that for bots they need to investigate the issue to ensure innocent players don't get banned, whereas offensive language is easy to investigate, they pull up the chat logs of the player in question.

Also we aren't talking about the F word, we are talking about the homophobic language apparently used by the OP.

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I'm sorry, where did the OP say that? The only post I saw on that was by a 3rd party who "knows the player" and supposedly "saw some screenshots". Like I said, willing to believe the other person is completely innocent but slamming the OP over something you have no personal knowledge or evidence of, yet none of you see the hypocrisy here.

Love
These
Forums

I'm still missing the fact that your saying the guy was a bot, but he was clearly playing his game because he was offended by your language towards him and reported you.


Iirc doesn't Botting involve starting a program and walking away? Your lack of details is overwhelming. I don't know this guy, yet you assume I do. Please explain more.

I say free for all cursing and swearing to out hearts content, I wanna be able to yell at people in the most offensive language possible! >:O
If I can't do that then why the hell am I paying a monthly sub!!! D:<

Oh another note, after several post from Kiroh, I'm starting to think he doesn't actually love these forums.
>_>
<_<

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Originally Posted by Radxen

I say free for all cursing and swearing to out hearts content, I wanna be able to yell at people in the most offensive language possible! >:O
If I can't do that then why the hell am I paying a monthly sub!!! D:<

Oh another note, after several post from Kiroh, I'm starting to think he doesn't actually love these forums.
>_>
<_<

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Whaa? How you you even say that? I love these forums. I absolutely adore these forums.

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Originally Posted by Roris

A sub is a sub right, just look at all those unpunished bots in 1.0, they practically funded ARR too.

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The only botting that happened in 1.0 is a certain big name LS using bots to avoid Ifrit Extreme damage and gathering/crafting bots before SE added Auto-Synthesis. People who hacked got punished once ARR landed as you may have forgotten but quite a bit of people wondered why they were banned once ARR went live lol.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Except the term in question is a derogatory term for a male homosexual, you might say it out of hate, and inadvertently really offend someone which is why this kind of language shouldn't be used, it's like throwing around racial slur, then trying to defend yourself saying "How did I know you were from xxx minority" would you do that? Probably not then why should derogatory homophobic terms be thrown around in the same manner?

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Word usage and meaning change over time. While yes that term is often utilized to be derogatory against a particular group of people, just as often online it is used to indicate that the person is stupid or a loser. ( I can already read the comments in regards to this statement). I myself often use ii in this way: Man you are such a ..., meaning you are an idiot, or another word, man that was gay; meaning that was stupid. The only way that phrase was an actual insult towards that group of people is if the speaker knows that the target is part of that group. Other wise the meaning is different. I should not have to say this but, just because the meaning of phrases or words can mean a group of people or idiot, loser, stupid, dumb, does not mean that the other definition applies to that same group. People who think otherwise are just looking for a battle. To illustrate, just because the word gay means same sex orientation, and it is used to mean stupid, does not mean people who are gay are stupid.

People are free to interpret the meanings of words in the most literal sense, but that does not mean the true interpretation of the statement is that. To jump to the worst case scenario shows a lot.

Honestly this thread has served its purpose. What started as a complaint about SE's approach to bots turned into an attack on the OP for unsubstantiated statements. Regardless even if they were actually said by him, this thread had no business turning into an LGBT issue seeing as there was never one to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

You keep saying the other player is a bot repeatedly but you don't explain why you're certain it's a bot.
Explain why it's a bot rather than "everyone knows it's a bot".

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I have screenshots of him teleporting around in the PvP arena. Reported him based on that too.. still have the screenshots handy.
It looks almost like lag, but he'll get pushed back by an ability and split second later he's back on his target.

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Originally Posted by Tsurupettan

I know the player you are referring to personally and he shared some screenshots with me.

You may have left out some vital details. You say "aggressive language," the screenshots say something that rhymes with "mucking maggot." He actually is a gay male who is terrified of coming out, so great job. I dont know what caused you to use such hateful language, but i do know its not the first time you have been verbally hostile towards him.

Was it his all pink armor that caused your disgusting outburst? You should know he undyed it so he doesnt have to face the same kind of intolerance in-game as he does in school.

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Oh, I'm not exactly complaining about me be reprimanded. I was just angry in a fit of rage spouted stupid things which we all do.
What I am not happy about, however, is that your so-called "friend" is a bot. He hacks FFXIV and therefore doesn't deserve playing this game which I actually enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Kisuke

I have screenshots of him teleporting around in the PvP arena. Reported him based on that too.. still have the screenshots handy.
It looks almost like lag, but he'll get pushed back by an ability and split second later he's back on his target.

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I suggest capturing video next time instead of taking still pictures, that you can send to SE as proof. That would more readily support your position that the other player is cheating in some way.
That said, investigating botting/hacking claims takes more time as more evidence and analysis is necessary compared to harassment claims.

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Originally Posted by Kisuke

I have screenshots of him teleporting around in the PvP arena. Reported him based on that too.. still have the screenshots handy.
It looks almost like lag, but he'll get pushed back by an ability and split second later he's back on his target.

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How the hail is a screenshot going to prove teleporting LOL. I'm sorry, but you gotta do better than that.

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Originally Posted by Pinworms

How the hail is a screenshot going to prove teleporting LOL. I'm sorry, but you gotta do better than that.

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Half his body is in the ground during the match in the middle of the arena.
He's floating mid air in his starting area.
and.. he was in a wall at one point.

All of this makes it very hard to target him. =(

You broke the rules and you were punished. Problem?

All I got from this thread is trolls defending a known cheater (seriously, if you PVP on Primal in solo-queue, you've seen the offender), and whole bunch of people who don't understand "freedom of speech". It's the right to speak out against your government without being silenced, not the right to harrass someone with language. That's actually illegal most places, it's a form of abuse.

I guess SE loves botters. Who knows?

Op, not to sound like a dick or anything, but um, just because someone else is breaking the rules, doesn't mean that you get to as well. That's called hypocrisy. Sure, I get that you're mad about the bots, but that doesn't give you the right to break the language and harassment rules. You broke the rules. You were punished for it. SE handles harassment differently than they do bots and RMT and all that stuff. Harassment stuff gets taken care of pretty quickly, while the bots get investigated to find connections to other bots/RMT sites/etc. The fact remains, that you're not allowed to harass other players, whether they be legitimate players or bots. It's still the same thing, and still bears the same punishment. If you want to be a jerk and harass people, that's your business, but you should be surprised when you get treated like what you are.

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Originally Posted by Pinworms

How the hail is a screenshot going to prove teleporting LOL. I'm sorry, but you gotta do better than that.

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Screenshots are time stamped. The metadata can be used to determine the distance traveled between the screenshot interval. Besides video is just a sequence of stills anyway.

Better spam that screen shot button then lol. Still all that maybe true, but if he is teleporting around and in the ground etc that's not necessarily a bot - 3rd party program yes, bot - don't think so since the player is there and responding. Maybe you all are reporting him for the wrong things.

Botting refers to playing the game while not physically at the computer. Report him as a bot and as soon as he responds investigation is over. Report him for 3rd party software and explain what is happening and why you suspect it...different story. Verbally abuse someone - chat logs, with little investigating required.

Also different departments are sent the reports as far as harassment and "Botting or cheating". It's all in how things are worded sometimes.

Talking shit to a person and using a bot is the same to SE. But take longer to ban someone using a bot seeing how they have to make sure there using it.

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Originally Posted by Vilzen

I didn't out right call it that because this is a Japanese game. Im not familiar with their government.

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Cursing and use of obscene language is pretty much against the rules of all MMOs, including US-based ones. Game companies are entirely within their rights to place foul language standards on those who use their private game chat and website forums. It isn't an issue of freedom of speech.

Its most likely isn't the fact that th F word was used, as it can be filtered and persons choice not to use it, and word itself does not violate TOS. Was most likely they saying that it was used in a harrassing manner. On otherside tho the bot issue does seem to be going nowhere =/