Fix instant abilities

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Originally Posted by Kantide

People complaining about how this is designed is like going to buy a BMW and then complaining everyday to BMW customer service that there is no Honda engine in your BMW and demanding for them to fix it even though if you wanted a Honda you shouldn't have bought a BMW. (i.e. if you don't like the way the game is designed you don't have to play it)

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Actually, it's more like buying a BMW and finding out you have a two-stroke minibike engine in it. I mean after all, I'm only expecting my BMW to have the same engine as every other BMW out there, but it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Cikala

Actually, it's more like buying a BMW and finding out you have a two-stroke minibike engine in it. I mean after all, I'm only expecting my BMW to have the same engine as every other BMW out there, but it doesn't.

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No its more like buying a BMW and complain that u actually have to drive it.

I find this problem incredibly frustrating as a whitemage. With benediction I can't stand when the delay causes a tank to die even when I clearly cast it while they have HP, but on top of that the fact that the spell defaults to me, healing me for 0 health when I have 100% HP. They should at least cancel the spell if you attempt to cast it on a dead target according to the server.

Also annoying when quickly hitting swiftcast then a heal, and having my casting bar show up for the spell since swiftcast never went off in the first place.

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Originally Posted by chrillix

I find this problem incredibly frustrating as a whitemage. With benediction I can't stand when the delay causes a tank to die even when I clearly cast it while they have HP, but on top of that the fact that the spell defaults to me, healing me for 0 health when I have 100% HP. They should at least cancel the spell if you attempt to cast it on a dead target according to the server.

Also annoying when quickly hitting swiftcast then a heal, and having my casting bar show up for the spell since swiftcast never went off in the first place.

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I thought I was the only one!

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Originally Posted by chrillix

I find this problem incredibly frustrating as a whitemage. With benediction I can't stand when the delay causes a tank to die even when I clearly cast it while they have HP, but on top of that the fact that the spell defaults to me, healing me for 0 health when I have 100% HP. They should at least cancel the spell if you attempt to cast it on a dead target according to the server.

Also annoying when quickly hitting swiftcast then a heal, and having my casting bar show up for the spell since swiftcast never went off in the first place.

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Yeah that happens to me all the time too. :(

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Originally Posted by Cikala

Actually, it's more like buying a BMW and finding out you have a two-stroke minibike engine in it. I mean after all, I'm only expecting my BMW to have the same engine as every other BMW out there, but it doesn't.

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That is one way of looking at it although rather than a minibike engine I'd say it's more like a Corvette LS1 engine. The problem is that MMOs have become stale and whenever something changes people complain about it. This is why there is no innovation and many companies aren't making MMOs because the risk of trying something new is too high.

I don't know about you but I am soooooo tired of the same MMO reskinned in different IPs. FFXIV is fresh in a lot of ways and I hope it stays that way.

This game forces you to be more proactive, not reactive in how you battle bosses. In this way the combat is similar enough to be familiar to MMO players but not exactly like every other MMO.

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Originally Posted by diulalasing

If he means that, there is no fix

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There is a fix - Resync everything.

sorry to ask here but how do you post on this forum?

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Originally Posted by chrillix

I find this problem incredibly frustrating as a whitemage. With benediction I can't stand when the delay causes a tank to die even when I clearly cast it while they have HP, but on top of that the fact that the spell defaults to me, healing me for 0 health when I have 100% HP. They should at least cancel the spell if you attempt to cast it on a dead target according to the server.

Also annoying when quickly hitting swiftcast then a heal, and having my casting bar show up for the spell since swiftcast never went off in the first place.

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I know exactly what you mean. Same thing happens with me and lustrate.

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Originally Posted by XNihili

They'll change the tooltip with : "not instant ability, 1s cast". Or something like that.

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This does not fix the fact that Benediction can heal the target, the heal will show up in the target's combat log as having completed, and then after the heal they will take damage and still die.

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Originally Posted by Kantide

And therein lies the tactical nature of the combat system. You need to carefully plan what your next action will be. It's about thinking 2 seconds ahead of the encounter. If you can't do that then twitch games might be a better option for you.

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I need to twitch before the need to twitch? I need to be so anxious about things happening to me that I have to be constantly prepared to react to something that hasn't happened yet? I'm going to need moooore fucking meth for coil. Great strategy. Love how you use 'twitchy' as if it's some kind of sentiment for a quicker faster game, yet require players to be even more wired just to make up for shit netcode. This is the twitchiest game there is girl. If you think "tactical nature" doesn't apply to twitch based titles, you've misunderstood the 'nature' of the word 'tactic'.

You want me to apply a strategy planned for a specific end? I'm going to need information! That information is late!? Time to apply my tactics! Here we go! I nailed it! Wait server says I didn't! I'm dead!! Epic tactical strategy action!

Early on in the game I was wondering why if I used my three DoTs for Bane, and went Bio last, Bane after, Bio never registered, it was only when I went to endgame I realized it was just the client to server synchronicity being infinite horseshit.

With the Bane nonsense, I lose a stack of Aetherflow and DPS, it sucks, but not the end of the world. I just have to compensate for terrible infrastructure and wait a second or so for the instant cast of Bio that isn't really instant at all to finally appear on the mob, because instant means a second or two, my fault. But with Hallowed Ground and Benediction, you only really use that during critical moments. As things stand now, they're apparently utilizing this mediocre netcode to elucidate which among us are precogs, because you better have some luck, or incredible foresight to pop it off at the right moment. It's a damn good thing every encounter in this game follows a railroaded script, so after doing the encounter once or twice you have just set up a damn macro that initiates abilities for you at the right times.

I guess that works, but it feels like potential squandered. The primals, for example, would be far better if their abilities were randomized, but only with competent client/server reciprocity.

I love how compensating for bad netcode = intended game mechanic and purposeful strategy. "Oh, just use your abilities 2 or 3 secs BEFORE you NEED it"... so instead of getting the advertised 10 secs of a buff, you only get 7. Because that's what is really happening here. Certain CDs that apply a buff, even though it's displayed on your character, the buff isn't actually in effect until SECONDS AFTER it's been applied. What's worse is, you DO NOT get those "latent" seconds of the buff on the tail end. THIS IS BAD GAME DESIGN.

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Originally Posted by Phai

No its more like buying a BMW and complain that you actually have to drive it.

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Nope, It's more like buying a BMW and never receiving it!

Benediction, Hallowed Ground, Spirits Within, Circle of Scorn, Swiftcast etc. etc. It's prevalent throughout the game structure.

Turn on time stamps for your Battle Log.

It's more than annoying when the game blatantly ignores it's own rules; ie. taking damage time stamped in the log after Hallowed Ground's activation time stamp - time stamps make it horribly apparent there is a problem with the activation of a given effect that is certainly tied to animation.

Compensating and preparing is fine but instant abilities should be instant - or they need their descriptions modified to include a cast/delay time if there is an observable gap between using the ability and it's effect activating.

:)

I just love how the combat log is dictated by what your client thinks happens half the time. Pop Benediction, cooldown applied, log says person healed for all their health, but dead a split-second later anyways.

What ticks me off more is when Swiftcast or Aetherflow doesn't activate, and I get hit by the cooldown anyways. Or having to hit a skill three times because the server keeps saying "Nope" to me casting it for whatever reason on a stationary target.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Nope, It's more like buying a BMW and never receiving it!

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U dont recive the skill u use? And u blame game? After the animation delay have been there for over 90 days?

Couse from ur reply, that what it looks like.

Adapting is for slackers i asume. Lets all gather, and carry u troug this game, u can have the loot! Game over and ur welcome. Good luck in future games :)

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Originally Posted by Phai

U dont recive the skill u use? And u blame game? After the animation delay have been there for over 90 days?

Couse from ur reply, that what it looks like.

Adapting is for slackers i asume. Lets all gather, and carry u troug this game, u can have the loot! Game over and ur welcome. Good luck in future games :)

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Riiiight, because I should totally have to use my "oh shit" heal-someone-to-full five minute cooldown ability when it's not an emergency.

*facepalm*

Ask a WHM what happens when Benediction fails. There is no counter to the heal going off, actually showing up in the combat log as having healed the target for their full health, and then still watching them die a half second later from a piddly hit that should have done nothing. If they don't want this to be an emergency crutch heal, then the cooldown needs to be decreased by a lot.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Riiiight, because I should totally have to use my "oh shit" heal-someone-to-full five minute cooldown ability when it's not an emergency.

*facepalm*

Ask a WHM what happens when Benediction fails. If they don't want this to be an emergency crutch heal, then the cooldown needs to be decreased by a lot.

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I never said that.

All tanks and whm's in my Fc, and other friends dont have this problem!
First time doing new content, maybe yes, but once we starting to learn the encounter they know just when its needed and it hits.
I can see that it can be a frustration since tooltip says instant, but have a short animation delay. But Adapting to the encounter and how ur class skills work isent forbidden, it can even make u more focused on the fight ur doing!

U can see on these forum that when ppl struggle whit an encounter or new content comes out, these issues are getting more highlighted. When ppl have learned the fights, it seems like it calms down!

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Originally Posted by Phai

U dont recive the skill u use? And u blame game? After the animation delay have been there for over 90 days?

Couse from ur reply, that what it looks like.

Adapting is for slackers i asume. Lets all gather, and carry u troug this game, u can have the loot! Game over and ur welcome. Good luck in future games :)

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Look up the definition of Instant.

If an Animation prevents it from activating for .5 to 2 seconds. It isn't instant. Shield Slam, hit it, bam! its done. Blunt arrow, Bam! Spirits within, hit it, wait, then it does the effect. Shield slam and blunt arrow are instant, because you get the effect straight away. Abilities like Spirits within, which are locked to a point in an animation ARE NOT INSTANT. So either there should be a cast timer on the ability to take into the consideration the animation time before the effect happens. Or the effect should fire off, then lock you in the animation.

Ive never "trouged?" through any MMO. Played numerous MMOs, since EQ, at a high level. When I activate an ability and I don't receive the effect at the beginning, middle or even at the end of the animation, yet still get the cooldown...

Helpful advice if your first language isn't english (it isn't mine either). It makes your post easier to read if you stick to one language and not use the dutch u for you :)

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Look up the definition of Instant.

Helpful advice if your first language isn't english (it isn't mine either). It makes your post easier to read if you stick to one language and not use the dutch u for you :)

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Thank u for the advice, yeh English is far from something i master well, and typing on Ipad is hell on earht ><

Anyway, my initial reply to u was a bit rude, so sorry about that one.

On my Pld its very easy to notice the issue, i asume u know what skills i have in mind. I agree that when learning an encounter the ability is not such an "Oh shit" skill i would like it to be. This is forcing me to have more focus on how the fights work, and adapt (or atleast try). This kind of progression and playstyle in new fights i find rewarding.
I think (might be wrong) this is working as intended, and for my part i hope they dont change it.


I did hit my break on the car, i have a angry guy coming out of the car infront of me, i failed, but i still used my breaks. Next time il try look a bit further in front of me.

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Originally Posted by Phai

U can see on these forum that when ppl struggle whit an encounter or new content comes out, these issues are getting more highlighted. When ppl have learned the fights, it seems like it calms down!

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No, it doesn't. Doesn't matter if I can do a fight blindfolded and with one hand tied behind my back. Benediction will still fail to save a life half the time, even though the heal lands and registers in the combat log on the appropriate target. I don't know how much more clear I can be about how this is so very wrong. If the combat log says something happened, it better damn well have happened.

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Originally Posted by Kantide

And therein lies the tactical nature of the combat system. You need to carefully plan what your next action will be. It's about thinking 2 seconds ahead of the encounter. If you can't do that then twitch games might be a better option for you.

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You can try to predict the next action, but in the moments you need these skills it is because something you didn't predict happened. Something went wrong and you have to react, I can react as fast as possible but that doesn't mean swat when the server is that far behind me. If there are mechanics that require players to react quickly there should be at least enough time for them to react AND the server register that reaction.

It's not even about that. Everyone here defending it, is blaming the person using the ability. You can't control everything in combat. Rotations are just that, however, unexpected things happen IE lag, or mistakes. I can't play all 8 roles at the same time effectively nor can I control other people's computers and what they do with their characters. There are other circumstances OUTSIDE of your control that not having these abilities perform the way they SHOULD (given their description as instant) almost defeats the purpose of how they are integrated into the combat system. You can say get better all day, but at the end of the day we are all subject to garbage net-code. Their response that this is "working as intended" is a sad and lazy excuse to not have a better functioning game.

I am not trying to be rude, but if a boss fight is scripted, then over coming that boss isn't skill, it is memorization test. Last I checked, people with enough determination can remember anything, so why not have a game feel more intuitive and responsive while exercising your memory? People who act, and react to unknown, and random occurrences with success are skillful. I can read, memorize, and recite pieces of work from writers, poets, musicians, but it doesn't mean I have the skill to produce similar work. I know some people like to complain about anything and everything, but this seems pretty credible.

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Originally Posted by diulalasing

If he means that, there is no fix

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Are the servers really that terrible? Every other MMO I played, the instant casts are actually instant. A few of the MMOs I'm talking about have servers further away from me than FF14s. It's hard to understand how a huge company like SE can't afford better...

If it is by design fine, but then they should have atleast added info like cast/animation time to the skill so we know when to actually expect a spell to go off. That Rage of Halone animation time is almost as long as the GCD!!

If its not good lord please fix it, we are too used to WoW style instant spells by now!

When combat logs themselves are contradicting what shows up on screen you know your game is suffering from terrible netcode inconsistencies.

Not too sure why some people actually defend this crap.

I have this with Perfect Balance. I'll hit it, it'll go on cooldown, but I won't receive the buff. Very irritating, but I could see how it would be even worse for invin or benediction.

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Originally Posted by HealBus

When combat logs themselves are contradicting what shows up on screen you know your game is suffering from terrible netcode inconsistencies.

Not too sure why some people actually defend this crap.

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Because people feel as though SE can do no wrong and that them saying "Working as intended" is a justifiable reason for bad game design.

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Originally Posted by Alvarion

Because people feel as though SE can do no wrong and that them saying "Working as intended" is a justifiable reason for bad game design.

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As a pld, did u have this problem whit ur stun? couse i never had. Never had this problem whit silence on Brd either.
When it comes to the skills people are having issue whit in this thread its couse they have a longer animation from when used, until effect.

So why is one skill bad netcode and the other not?

I do agree FFXIV is not the fastest MMO out there when it comes to this.

I hope they keep Pld's defencive skills as they are, but i can agree that Benediction might need to be looked at.