[Discussion] BiS WAR 2.1

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Originally Posted by Eclipsed

I have yet to see this actually proven in practice or theory adequately.

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STR tiers are believed to follow a 40/41 pattern, which means with 45 strength, you necessarily get a +1% strength tier. Tiers are at 364 and 405, and you would cross the 405 tier by wearing ilvl70 melded accessories. There are no known DEX or parry tiers, but if any such tiering effects exist, it is highly unlikely that DEX would not exceed a tier (being +45) and likely that parry lost would not exceed a tier (being -16). I have seen it suggested that DEX follows tiers in 40/41 pattern like STR, but I don't have any good data on that one way or the other. Regardless, the only way you could ever possibly not have greater mitigation is if blocking amount exceeds blocking rate, DEX and parry are tiered, and DEX does not meet a tier while parry does. That's a pretty farfetched scenario.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Ha, you're totally right. For some reason, I looked at them and saw the same stats as the previous tier. Sort of a facepalm-worthy mistake, innit? Yeah, if you're prioritizing VIT over all else, then you'll want the Allagan axe. The feet also go back to Allagan, resulting in -31 parry and +4 VIT over the previous set. You'll have +18 ACC as well, which is meaningless when you're already at cap, but you maximized parry after VIT anyway.

Allagan Battleaxe
Allagan helm
Warrior chest
Warrior arms
Allagan belt
Warrior legs
Allagan feet
Allagan neck
Allagan ears
Hero wrists
Allagan ring
Hero ring



That was never really the point. Melded accessories offer you the highest mitigation, and also offer higher damage output and recovery from attack-based abilities (Bloodbath, Second Wind, Inner Beast) to boot. It would also let you progress more evenly since 3/5 BIS accessories are random drops and only accessible once you have a pretty high gear level. The enmity is there and all, but you never needed it at that gear level in the first place.

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Since I don't have the WAR body yet (but have the other pieces for your BiS minus right side) I can't say if i prefer to lose on the dps stats over the VIT/Parry without testing them out. I know a MT's focus is suitability and holding aggro, but I'm a firm believer that there's a soft ceiling to effectively doing your job, and being able to do your job as well as put out numbers.

On that note; I've had great luck with my left side drops, but I've gotten only one right side, and it's the one piece not BiS for vit/parry maxing, which is part of the reason i got so interested in the crafted gears.

Secondly, using numbers i got from my DPS friend, the values of STR vs Crit on the allagan legs the crit comes out on top by a bit; wouldn't the allagan legs be a slight bit better than warrior?

Not sure on the allagan pants. Yes the crit is nice but determination is a flat increase to auto attacks and is not reliant on procs. That being said is there any data on DET and Parry post 2.1 or is it still the same?

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Originally Posted by TaalAzura

Secondly, using numbers i got from my DPS friend, the values of STR vs Crit on the allagan legs the crit comes out on top by a bit; wouldn't the allagan legs be a slight bit better than warrior?

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You mean DTR vs. crit. I suspect your DPS friend (I smell a DRG) is rolling 500 strength and 280 DTR already, and the value DTR is inversely proportional to STR and DTR. If you're wearing ilvl90 Fending gear maximizing for parry, your damage stats are low and DTR is more valuable. If you're wearing ilvl90 Maiming/Striking/Slaying gear, then CHR is more valuable. However, if you stack crit, it also loses (some small portion of) value. SSPD starts about where CHR is, but the gains accelerate; however, they also come with an equivalent increase in resource drain.

//EDIT: Fiddled with SSPD sets using ilvl90. Max possible with ilvl90 gear is +100 SSPD with full ilvl90, but that lacks accuracy for the cap. If I want to meet that requirement, I need to swap to Dual Haken, and I end up with only +74. That gives you a GCD of 2.44s. Actually nicely spreads out equipment, making it fairly feasible to acquire. Regardless, your pre-Twintania options would be separated by +48 skill speed vs. +21 parry. Skill Speed set looks like so:

Dual Haken
Warrior helm
Warrior chest
Warrior arms
Allagan belt
Warrior legs
Warrior feet
Hero neck
Hero ears
Inferno Bangles
Allagan ring
Hero ring

Skill speed set requires Dual Haken (quest), Inferno Bangle, Allagan Ring, and Allagan Plate Belt as non-Myth items, making it pretty feasible. Pure parry pre-Twintania set requires Dual Haken plus Allagan Belt, Flanchard, Earrings, Necklace, and Ring. This is pretty much the height of meaningless itemization no matter how you slice it.

Do you run bonus attributes in STR or VIT for this build on warrior? :)

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

STR tiers are believed to follow a 40/41 pattern, which means with 45 strength, you necessarily get a +1% strength tier. Tiers are at 364 and 405..

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AFAIK, the whole "Tiers" thing has been debunked.

The whole theory about STR tiers for Parry was completely based on the "X% Parried" that pops up on your scrolling combat text when you get hit. Someone tested it with various amounts of STR, and concluded that STR's effect on Parry DR% is tiered.

However, they didn't take into account the likelihood that the "X% Parried" simply rounds the true amount parried to the nearest %. There is absolutely no conclusive evidence that STR's effect on Parry is tiered and there's no reason to believe that it isn't linear. Every other stat is linear and no other stat is tiered.

All we know is that 40-41 STR equates to ~1% Parry DR.

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Originally Posted by Thero

Do you run bonus attributes in STR or VIT for this build on warrior? :)

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Pretty much all builds are full VIT allocation. If you can afford any VIT loss, you will move to ilvl70 melded accessories instead of changing allocation because they give you more stats back than you lose. Full melded ilvl70 is +45 STR, -25 VIT compared to full ilvl90. You would only consider STR allocation if you're already using ilvl70 melded accessories, and most people will argue that it's not worth moving more into STR from there unless you're a dedicated DPS OT who doesn't ever need to take nontrivial hits.

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Originally Posted by bokchoykn

AFAIK, the whole "Tiers" thing has been debunked.

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I wouldn't say it's been debunked, just that it hasn't been shown conclusively (hence why I say "are believe to"). Not sure how I would go about testing that, per se. It's too bad that 1000 Needles can't be parried or I'd have a definitive answer pretty quickly. As it stands, people tend to take what they know they're getting and not what the game doesn't tell them they're getting.

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Originally Posted by Thero

Do you run bonus attributes in STR or VIT for this build on warrior? :)

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Only if the Str tier is within 6 points(<- Random number i selected ), including the MNK/DRG buff of 14 points.

So I'm assuming that lv70 crafted HQ + materia are even better as PLD BiS because PLD is mitigation based, right?
Even without Inner Beast and a weaker Bloodbath it still has block inducing abilities like Bulkwalk.