Full STR WAR is nothing to write off.

I'm spec 27 VIT and 3 STR and my highest Inner Beast was 1080 dmg.... my average being between 570-750dmg? :/

I think gear and stat allocation will have to be reassessed with Inner Beast being a 100% heal and used preemptively (overhealing losses) rather than the reactive play we use now.

The value of having that DR up for the "high damage phase" of any given fight is this; it raises my eHP and makes me last longer. That DR isn't going to scale with your STR, but it will become more effective the higher your VIT value. That allows for more margin for your healers. I worry that using full strength would exacerbate the problem of "how do I survive" rather than alleviate it post-update.

What's your opinion?

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Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

Prior to change my highest IB was 800ish with the norm being 600. Now my highest inner beast to date is almost 1300, with 800ish being the norm.

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Have you actually parsed yourself? big number for tanks is nice and all, but when BLM is throwing out 4k crits with firestarter, your 1k damage is measly. Also you have very low crit so in a 10 min fight you would barely get more then 20% with wrath.

Not to mention if the WHM doesnt have to heal u for a few sec with the extra health he or she can toss out a Holy which does a hell of alot more then you do. Which is also why PLD are still faster at WP.

All in all I dont discount the value of str, I personally dont use defiance and use all my DRG jewels for AK runs. But for progression sake, the reward is too low for so much risk

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Originally Posted by NightReach

Have you actually parsed yourself? big number for tanks is nice and all, but when BLM is throwing out 4k crits with firestarter, your 1k damage is measly. Also you have very low crit so in a 10 min fight you would barely get more then 20% with wrath.

Not to mention if the WHM doesnt have to heal u for a few sec with the extra health he or she can toss out a Holy which does a hell of alot more then you do.

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Your counter arguement is to compare a TANK to BLM ?....seriously?

Speaking of BLM, as we get better geared, I can see it more challenging for Full VIT tanks to hold aggro.

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Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

Tell me if you ever heard this ?

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You aren't wrong, alot of content doesn't require absurd amounts of HP or accuracy on WAR or PLD for that matter. I'd say it's not till coil you probably need to really invest in HP on either job. But that's not to say there aren't exceptions too this, I mean having HP for speed runs in WP does make it a little easier to handle since your not really DPSing anyways and being undergeared for content is also another issue that would require more HP than normal, but beyond that as long your gear is up to stuff it's not something skillful players can't deal with easily.

Besides that, it's not like they can't put out decent numbers. I break 400+ with some 700+ crits pretty often, then again I'm almost at the absolute maximum STR PLD can get right now.

Omega, remember, Berserk is a 50% attack Power increase, so you can't go by that only. If you take berserk and a Crit, then add Maim/Storms Eye, your looking at 4 damage modifiers there. What you SHOULD be looking at are your constants, which is un buffed, NH, and Maim/Storms Eye Normal Hit. Remember, Berserk won't be up for every IB, nor will you consistently Crit. Or else your grossly overestimate your Healing values.

100% NH, Take Maim, and Storms Eye, then +50% for Berserk, +50% for a Crit. So your literally looking at 120%, Buffed up 50%, then Buffed up another 50% if you are talking about IB that way.

I have my Bravura +1, more Strength and Attack Power than you do, and I still don't see the 1300 you mentioned. So, I have to assume you had some other assistance for those numbers other than just your Highest ever self-buffed Crit.

I typically see 325 Damage IB's in Vitality only though.

IIRC, My IB now hits for 475~ (Strength)

So roughly 150~ Damage on a NH change when I'm in Strength.

Taking that 150 (Bonus which I observed) as a Baseline, Add Maim/SE to buff it to 180, then Add Berserk: 270 Then Crit that number to get +405 on top of what would have been Vitality only.

When we do the same to the Vitality Spec base of 325 Damage: 390 + Berserk = 585 + Crit = 877 Damage from the Self-Buffed IB. ~2630 Healing is not too bad.

Then you can add in the top end Strength damage for a whopping 1282 Fully Buffed Crit. And you have what I typically see in my gear, at 442 Attack power/Strength with a +1 Relic. (Sorry, I'm on my Aracanist at the time of this post when I logged out last night)

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Originally Posted by NightReach

Have you actually parsed yourself? big number for tanks is nice and all, but when BLM is throwing out 4k crits with firestarter, your 1k damage is measly. Also you have very low crit so in a 10 min fight you would barely get more then 20% with wrath.

Not to mention if the WHM doesnt have to heal u for a few sec with the extra health he or she can toss out a Holy which does a hell of alot more then you do. Which is also why PLD are still faster at WP.

All in all I dont discount the value of str, I personally dont use defiance and use all my DRG jewels for AK runs. But for progression sake, the reward is too low for so much risk

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None of us are talking about Progression here, Just everything other than the last 2 fights in the game. =P

PS: WHM can holy with my Warrior as a Speed Runner too, and I add 200-300 Damage per Overpower to everything. So thats 200-300 per GCD on top of the AOE DPSers, and Holy Stuns them, so that's at minimum 3 casts at ~600 Damage per cast of holy.

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Originally Posted by ZDamned

snip

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That was my best inner beast to date. if that was the norm, who needs healer :P? Also I cook so I always have a stack of Black Truffle Risotto or Deviled Eggs with me . Do you use food ?

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Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

That was my best inner beast to date. if that was the norm, who needs healer :P? Also I cook so I always have a stack of Black Truffle Risotto or Deviled Eggs with me . Do you use food ?

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Nope! Food would be the difference there. =P That makes sense now. lol!
I only use food for progression fights as I stand now, since I don't have the time to make Gil yet.

I'm stoked I got ~2670 and ~1620 IB heal back-to-back on the last AK boss last night. Healer was running from purple line right as I got hit with disease. It was towards the end of the fight when I had all buffs up, but still, it was pretty awesome. :D

Full Vit, all DL gear with i90 ring, standard relic

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Originally Posted by ZDamned

Nope! Food would be the difference there. =P That makes sense now. lol!
I only use food for progression fights as I stand now, since I don't have the time to make Gil yet.

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I'm a lvl 50 Alchemist so from time to time i pop a Mega Potion of STR too, but they are rather expensive to make on my server, so I rarely do it.
But the Burst damage during those 15secs are insane.

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Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

Full STR WAR is nothing to write off.

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When I can trade 1 VIT for 2 STR, I'll do that. (see crafted jewelry vs. i90)
When I so far outgear the toughest content in game that I don't need HP, then I'll trade 1:1. That hasn't happened just yet and hopefully it never will.

Assuming the benefit of STR doesn't change from current, of course. Good chance that it might at some point.

ITT: A WAR sees big numbers and think this makes him a better tank.
Paikis comes in, wagging his hips like he's got the hottest thing on the block.
Everyone else just laughs at the ridiculousness.

Hey! It's my very own stalker! Hi Leiron, long time no see, what is it this time, almost 20 minutes?

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Originally Posted by Leiron

Paikis comes in, wagging his hips like he's got the hottest thing on the block.

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Fore the record, this isn't true. I haven't got the hottest thing on the block, I am the hottest thing on the block.

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Originally Posted by Paikis

Hey! It's my very own stalker! Hi Leiron, long time no see, what is it this time, almost 20 minutes?

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Your level of stupidity is rather unique.
Is that why you need to suggest you're being stalked?
You know, sort of how you like to suggest that PLD's were overpowered?
Its okay Paikis...being wrong is possible.
Here...I have tissues for your tears since I know you wept at the WAR changes as much as the baddy PLD's did.

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Originally Posted by Paikis

Fore the record, this isn't true. I haven't got the hottest thing on the block, I am the hottest thing on the block.

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You're playing an Forest Elvaan which us the equivalent of Gumby due to the size of their limbs, and how their necks lengthen when they run.
<_<

I'll take a Lalafell.

Almost 5 whole minutes that time! You're slowing down buddy.

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Originally Posted by Paikis

Almost 5 whole minutes that time! You're slowing down buddy.

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You're really creepy.

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Originally Posted by Leiron

You're really creepy.

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I'm creepy? You're the one following me around the forums. You going to buy me a drink or what?

Would you 2 get a room already?

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Originally Posted by ZDamned

Would you 2 get a room already?

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Nooo I just got the camera all set up this is gonna be some hot Elezen x Miqote action in here. Oh lawdy! <3

I've hit high IB on a dummy with Berserk and crit (848 damage) at 337 STR..but I also have 6100 HP with food so :V

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Originally Posted by NightReach

Have you actually parsed yourself? big number for tanks is nice and all, but when BLM is throwing out 4k crits with firestarter, your 1k damage is measly. Also you have very low crit so in a 10 min fight you would barely get more then 20% with wrath.

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Strange you ask him if he's done real research on the numbers and then you say BLM does 4K damage with Fire III.

Critical Fire III does around 1,500 damage. Source: full i90 BLM.

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Originally Posted by KizuBriko

Been full STR for a long time now. Still pushing 8k HP with food/party... 900 crit BBs is worth the STR30

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If you're at 8k HP with STR allocation, then you're doing something horribly wrong. You must necessarily be using ilvl90 VIT accessories, which is a horrid combination. Use VIT allocation and melded Gryphonskin for all-around better stats (higher STR and VIT both) before you touch ilvl90 VIT accessories.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Strange you ask him if he's done real research on the numbers and then you say BLM does 4K damage with Fire III.

Critical Fire III does around 1,500 damage. Source: full i90 BLM.

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Was going to say the same thing, lol.

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Originally Posted by Paikis

I'm creepy? You're the one following me around the forums. You going to buy me a drink or what?

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You do realize this is a public forum, and that you are one of the most active ones.
That's like suggesting your co-worker is a stalker because they've been assigned to the same room.

Unless its some weird defense mechanic you put up every time your argument gets shredded.

2.1 patch change of things will make Vitality outclass STR for the 30 stat distribution. Then again putting Vit depends on whether you have enough HP or not to survive the encounter. Most tanks in full iLvl 90s main armor can already go full STR.

You should go full vitality because allocating your stats is not as convenient as simply swapping accessories/gear.

Unless you got extreme melded accessories and/or little to no i90 gear, 30 into vit is a must. With 2.1 however and the constant effect of defiance and wrath stacks no longer hindering the healing capability of a warrior I feel most of us wars will go the 30 str route.

My suggestion, only go 30 str if:

a) you can hit the next str threshold. I think it was 405 str but idr.
b) got more than 8k hp without food
c) all of the above

PS. I've crit for 954 (with my current gear) on butcher block in ak and I nearly shit my pants.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NightReach

Have you actually parsed yourself? big number for tanks is nice and all, but when BLM is throwing out 4k crits with firestarter, your 1k damage is measly. Also you have very low crit so in a 10 min fight you would barely get more then 20% with wrath.

Not to mention if the WHM doesnt have to heal u for a few sec with the extra health he or she can toss out a Holy which does a hell of alot more then you do. Which is also why PLD are still faster at WP.

All in all I dont discount the value of str, I personally dont use defiance and use all my DRG jewels for AK runs. But for progression sake, the reward is too low for so much risk

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But it's not like because he uses STR build all the BLMs are suddenly like "OH NO I CAN'T FIRESTARTER ANYMORE!"... the damage they do stacks, lol.

I'm seeing a recurring trend of Twintania Here.

Beside the fact that Twintania is 1 fight in the game; The main reason why MT WAR's fail Twintania has little to do with if they are capped VIT or not.

It's because of the severe discrepancy of WAR's surviviability as the game is today (severe gap when compared to PLD).

2.1 will change that.

I think i will stick to my Full STR build. Will make it easier for me to use all 3 combo's come 2.1.

If only 1 stat is viable for each class, why even bother putting stat distribution in the game ?

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Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura

2.1 patch change of things will make Vitality outclass STR for the 30 stat distribution. Then again putting Vit depends on whether you have enough HP or not to survive the encounter. Most tanks in full iLvl 90s main armor can already go full STR.

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Totally wrong. How has a single person not brought up that in 2.1 strength is getting a 10% potency increase, as well as overpower potency being buffed? Strength is gonna be the way to go next week for sure. Not to mention that since tp costs ill be lowered on moves that are gonna be in our main rotations, the skill speed buffs forced on us from Bravura and the gryphonskin pieces will actually be helpful.

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

Totally wrong. How has a single person not brought up that in 2.1 strength is getting a 10% potency increase, as well as overpower potency being buffed? Strength is gonna be the way to go next week for sure. Not to mention that since tp costs ill be lowered on moves that are gonna be in our main rotations, the skill speed buffs forced on us from Bravura and the gryphonskin pieces will actually be helpful.

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And you have a source of the strength potency boost?

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

How has a single person not brought up that in 2.1 strength is getting a 10% potency increase, as well as overpower potency being buffed?

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Does anyone know if there is truth to this ?

Overpower is getting an enmity increase potency wasn't mentioned but I assume it is possible but the strength adjustment unless it came from a dev post on the forums wasn't specifically mentioned in the live letters or the War update brief.

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Originally Posted by Sakasa

Overpower is getting an enmity increase potency wasn't mentioned but I assume it is possible but the strength adjustment unless it came from a dev post on the forums wasn't specifically mentioned in the live letters or the War update brief.

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Yeah that's what I recall, but I don't remember anything about a potency increase myself unless he meant a slight potency increase to Storm's Path, but even then I can't actually remember if that was actually mentioned or not.

Only thing I recall is during the live letter they said they will be buffing melee classes to compete with BLM. They didnt go into detail on how they would go about doing this.... a STR potency boost seems logically since it would boost melee class without boosting BRD/BLM/SMN. This would make sense because if they boost str potency, they will be buffing all Melee DPS at once so othere classes cant complain of imbalance if they were to re-work class ability potency.

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Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

Only thing I recall is during the live letter they said they will be buffing melee classes to compete with BLM. They didnt go into detail on how they would go about doing this.... a STR potency boost seems logically since it would boost melee class without boosting BRD/BLM/SMN. This would make sense because if they boost str potency, they will be buffing all Melee DPS at once so othere classes cant complain of imbalance if they were to re-work class ability potency.

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I read it yesterday, 10% boost overall, their doing something too that will make it easier to keep melee combos alive when moving our of aoe.. Lemme see if I can find it

Edit:

0:05:48
Q: Please tell us about adjustments planned for jobs other than dragoon.

A: As I mentioned during the previous LIVE letter, there are a lot of cases where melee combos and chains are interrupted making burst DPS difficult, so dragoon and monk will be receiving roughly a 10% increase in damage per second. Rather than reducing the effectiveness of other classes, we will be making adjustments to increase certain elements this time.

Monk's Greased Lightning effect, for example, will be increased. Also, we've noticed that because there are so few damage bonuses for attacking from an enemy's rear, players generally focused on attacking from the side. We'll be increasing bonuses for rear attacks, so if you use monk the way we had intended, your DPS will increase significantly.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/124056-Letter-from-the-Producer-LIVE-Part-X-Q-A-Summary-%2812-02-2013%29

We'll this implies MNK & DRG Buff....Nothing specifically about STR. Bummer.

Not trying to rain on your parade or anything like that, but I think the DPS should just be left to the DPS, with anything coming from tanks/healers as "icing on the cake." I mean it's nice that with that setup you get around 1k-1300 buffed crit, but a firestarter gets me a little over 1100 on a normal atk with crits ranging from 1400-1800 in simple 4 man parties.

In coil or any fights where there can be quick big dmg atks to the tank, i'd rather have a tank that is focused on staying alive/making the healer job as easy as possible vs one trying to be a tank/5th DPS. Just my honest opinion.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

In coil or any fights where there can be quick big dmg atks to the tank, i'd rather have a tank that is focused on staying alive/making the healer job as easy as possible vs one trying to be a tank/5th DPS. Just my honest opinion.

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That's the thing. That 1,300 damage hit on Inner Beast just healed the guy who did it for 3,900hp. About half his health. That is why STR gearing is a great idea on WAR and only an OK idea for a PLD... maybe... if you have enough HP.

Remember when Yoshi said that people were playing WAR wrong? THIS is what he meant. People keep trying to play the WAR like a PLD and are stacking huge amounts of HP at the expense of making their Inner Beasts worthless. 1200-2000hp healed every 20 seconds is a drop in the ocean. 2,000 to 4200 up to 4 times a minute though? Now we're talking. Interestingly enough, Storm's Path actually puts up some decent numbers when you have 450+ STR as well.

More strength not only gives you bigger heals, but also can add around 2% physical mitigation as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paikis

That's the thing. That 1,300 damage hit on Inner Beast just healed the guy who did it for 3,900hp. About half his health. That is why STR gearing is a great idea on WAR and only an OK idea for a PLD... maybe... if you have enough HP.

Remember when Yoshi said that people were playing WAR wrong? THIS is what he meant. People keep trying to play the WAR like a PLD and are stacking huge amounts of HP at the expense of making their Inner Beasts worthless. 1200-2000hp healed every 20 seconds is a drop in the ocean. 2,000 to 4200 up to 4 times a minute though? Now we're talking. Interestingly enough, Storm's Path actually puts up some decent numbers when you have 450+ STR as well.

More strength not only gives you bigger heals, but also can add around 2% physical mitigation as well.

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But it's too late now :(

I sort of started to wonder if war was supposed to be MT the whole time with pld using cover when needed. Defiance being used to cover the difference in str/vit. The 2min timer on Cover though, couldn't use it all the time. But if full str war could recover 30-50% of hp back by using IB regularly, I don't know, is more on par with pld's mitigation?

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

Not trying to rain on your parade or anything like that, but I think the DPS should just be left to the DPS, with anything coming from tanks/healers as "icing on the cake." I mean it's nice that with that setup you get around 1k-1300 buffed crit, but a firestarter gets me a little over 1100 on a normal atk with crits ranging from 1400-1800 in simple 4 man parties.

In coil or any fights where there can be quick big dmg atks to the tank, i'd rather have a tank that is focused on staying alive/making the healer job as easy as possible vs one trying to be a tank/5th DPS. Just my honest opinion.

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I honestly, act as the Off tank, so I'm technically the 5th DPS for the other 80% of each boss fight anyway. I figure lets get more out of me than just a meat shield. =)