WHM Eye for an Eye poll

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Originally Posted by Faelandaea

I did try the skill last night in WP. It didn't seem to make a difference in the fights, really. So I probably will still not get to use it as much. Like I stated before it seems to be more of a skill for the harder fights like Coil, etc. So I can see why it'd be handy to have there where things actually hit for something.

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Eyeballing is not really a good way to find out. I had a WP run where the tank got all the mobs from the 2nd boss up to the last boss beating on him and I'm pretty sure Eye for an eye did help.
If 10% damage reduction doesn't make a difference, then why bother use Virus or even for the tank to get a good armor ?

I can easily farm Titan kills without it, I have ACN lv21.
But it doesn't mean it wouldn't help.
If you don't mind farming a little, you can get it to be more protected against Mountain Buster.

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Originally Posted by Faelandaea

LOL . . . no . . . I don't put in hardly any time at all compared to most people who play MMO games. I think it's cute how personally people are taking it because I choose not to do Coil. What? Are you guys lacking healers or something? No? Then you have your game fun and I'll have mine LOL.

Hey, news flash - this thread is about Eye for an Eye as a skill, and you guys are veering WAY off it, so to get the kiddies BACK on track . . .

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No, I just find it absolutely hilarious how you're acting as if everyone in Coil is living in their parents basements and plays this game 24/7, while you're spending more time on this game than most of the people I'm doing Coil with. If those people in Coil are basement dwellers, what are you then? You dwell the basements of basements?

When people start discussing the pros and cons of Eye for an Eye, I like to remind people that the actual chance of Eye for an Eye activating on a given monster is ~89% if the monster attacks every 3 seconds. It's not perfect, but still pretty good. A lot of people - including myself until about 2 weeks ago - don't give Eye for an Eye enough credit because of the percent chance of activating. But the fact of the matter is it's a safe bet; basically 9 in 10 enemies will get debuffed.

I haven't got my acn to the proper level for it yet but I will eventually. . and it seems to be a great skill.. unlike the blm skill freeze that serves no purpose lol

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Originally Posted by Faelandaea

I did try the skill last night in WP. It didn't seem to make a difference in the fights, really. So I probably will still not get to use it as much. Like I stated before it seems to be more of a skill for the harder fights like Coil, etc. So I can see why it'd be handy to have there where things actually hit for something.

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Actually E4E makes a HUGE difference in WP if you're speed running it. 10% reduction in damage for 20 seconds is AMAZING. I can't imagine speed running (or even semi speed running if you're under geared) WP without E4E. And away, though it's not 100% necessary at high levels, it's certainly a great help. For instance, when I was leveling WHM and did Stone Vigil with friends, E4E helped on those nasty Dragon Aevis pulls.

Any damage reduction on your tank is a good use of your skills. Your tank stays alive longer, you get to heal a bit less and conserve a bit of mp to cast a stoneskin on your tank instead or heal up a shitty dpser that won't stop getting hit. More efficient no? Not getting the skill/ not using the skill even if you have it is just pure laziness IMO. It's a useful skill that should be used.

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Originally Posted by SulwynCaliope

Actually E4E makes a HUGE difference in WP if you're speed running it. 10% reduction in damage for 20 seconds is AMAZING. I can't imagine speed running (or even semi speed running if you're under geared) WP without E4E. And away, though it's not 100% necessary at high levels, it's certainly a great help. For instance, when I was leveling WHM and did Stone Vigil with friends, E4E helped on those nasty Dragon Aevis pulls.

Any damage reduction on your tank is a good use of your skills. Your tank stays alive longer, you get to heal a bit less and conserve a bit of mp to cast a stoneskin on your tank instead or heal up a shitty dpser that won't stop getting hit. More efficient no? Not getting the skill/ not using the skill even if you have it is just pure laziness IMO. It's a useful skill that should be used.

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And admittedly I have not been doing speed runs. i just join the DF and try to help whoever through it that I can while still getting Tomes for my +1. Now as for those DPS that keep getting hit . . . good point.

There's no reason not to get and use Eye for an Eye. You have 5 cross class skill slots and exactly 5 useful skills to put in them. If you opt to leave out Eye for an Eye, your only other options are Physick or Ruin. Really, if you consider those "better" options, you need to play a different class because you are a terrible healer with terrible judgement and terrible decision making capabilities.

Just got ACN to lv30 last night and unlocked SCH :D! Now I am gonna lvl SCH to lv50 and also get/use E4E on WHM as well. Thanks again guys!

E4E is really usefull! Those who says it's useless really have no clue how this spells work!
10% dmg reduction is always welcome! It's even more usefull when your tank is grabbing a lot of mobs or adds.

E4E is even really nice for lower level dungeons too. After getting WHM and SCH both to 34 I took my WHM back to Brayflox with it...for tanks that struggled with the last boss' mechanic using E4E and Virus made it possible for them (E4E+Stoneskin and Virus+Stoneskin meant column attack hitting them only ~50% health loss vs ~80%.)

Answer : All the time ... get it, love it, breath it, it's worth it.

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

It's a free 10% damage reduction for 20s (which nearly always procs) with no MP cost and no GCD usage. There's really zero reason not to use it or have it in the first place. When Twintania is hitting your tank for anything up to 6k damage (with shield oath), you need all the damage mitigation you can get. Be glad you have it already before you do any difficult content.

WHM isn't the only job that should have it either. If BLMs are serious about doing Turn 5 they should that and Virus both set as cross class abilities aswell.

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I admitted it might be useful in extreme circumstances. I don't know. I haven't fought Twintania.

But thus far, I just haven't been impressed with it and could have easily done without it. I am just being honest.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

No, I just find it absolutely hilarious how you're acting as if everyone in Coil is living in their parents basements and plays this game 24/7

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Hey, hey, hey, hey now. Hey.

Hey.

Not all of us no-lifers live with parents. I don't and basements don't exist here. I'll have you know living in a shipping container is fine too!

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Originally Posted by Dale

I admitted it might be useful in extreme circumstances. I don't know. I haven't fought Twintania.

But thus far, I just haven't been impressed with it and could have easily done without it. I am just being honest.

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I think it's one of those things where you don't notice how much it helps with small numbers but see it actually doing something with big numbers. Kind of like with SCH shields. Just 'cause they don't heal 100% per heal doesn't mean they aren't in effect!
We know they're there, we just don't notice them.

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Originally Posted by Dale

But thus far, I just haven't been impressed with it and could have easily done without it. I am just being honest.

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It's not really about Eye for an Eye being necessary. Healing in FFXIV is enjoyable in part because there are a lot of ways to successfully keep your party alive. Eye for an Eye isn't going to suddenly make you a competent healer - hopefully you are already that - but it will make you a more exceptional healer. Beyond that, it gives you more options. The better tailored your toolbelt is for your job, the more likely you are to succeed. To stretch the metaphor: you can certainly hammer that nail into place with your saw if you hit it enough, but it's just going to be so much easier to use a real hammer.

I am not a very good "on my toes" healer. I know that, so I think about each encounter before hand, whether it's Titan, or just a large pull in a dungeon, and I come up with the best way to give myself as much breathing room as possible. Eye for an Eye is a great tool for those situations. It will slow down damage just enough to keep things at a reasonable pace.

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Originally Posted by Taerra

Answer : All the time ... get it, love it, breath it, it's worth it.

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Work it, make it, do it, makes us...

I'm another one who has E4E on my hotbar but just is not in the habit of using it. An overall evaluation of the numbers is just not impressive. It's a spell with 16% uptime (30 seconds every 180) and a 20% chance of reducing 10% damage... which pans out to something like an overall effectiveness of 0.3%. I've never been in AK and thought to myself, "Gosh, this would be a good pack of trash mobs to burn a 3 minute cooldown to maybe get 250 less damage on, possibly!"

During high damage phases of Coil and Titan HM I'm sure it's fine, but I'm not in a Coil group and have no desire to farm Titan.

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Originally Posted by Melithea

I'm another one who has E4E on my hotbar but just is not in the habit of using it. An overall evaluation of the numbers is just not impressive. It's a spell with 16% uptime (30 seconds every 180) and a 20% chance of reducing 10% damage... which pans out to something like an overall effectiveness of 0.3%. I've never been in AK and thought to myself, "Gosh, this would be a good pack of trash mobs to burn a 3 minute cooldown to maybe get 250 less damage on, possibly!"

During high damage phases of Coil and Titan HM I'm sure it's fine, but I'm not in a Coil group and have no desire to farm Titan.

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Your math is wrong. It does not have a 20% chance of reducing damage 10%, but rather a 20% chance of applying the debuff every time a monster hits you. Over the course of 30 seconds, a monster has multiple chances of getting the debuff averaging out to around an 89% chance to obtain it depending on their attack speed. Once the debuff happens, that monster does 10% less damage for 20 seconds. This means that every mob has a 9 in 10 chance of doing 10% less damage for 20 seconds which is around 9% overall damage reduction.

Over the course of the 180s cool down for a White Mage that is about 1%, and for over the 120s for a Scholar/Summoner that is about 1.5%. Its slightly disingenuous to talk about its damage reduction potential over the length of its cool down, however, since most fights don't last that long and no one is taking damage for a good portion of the cool down.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Over the course of the 180s cool down for a White Mage that is about 1%, and for over the 120s for a Scholar/Summoner that is about 1.5%. Its slightly disingenuous to talk about its damage reduction potential over the length of its cool down, however, since most fights don't last that long and no one is taking damage for a good portion of the cool down.

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I think this is an important point too. I cannot speak for WHMs, but I would make an educated guess that on SCH, I can keep up Eye for an Eye about 25% of combat time in dungeons if I need to (though generally I save it for 4+ enemies). The pertinent calculation is a little different for trials, but it is also a lot more common in trials to have a specific target ability in mind for your debuffs, such as Mountain Buster, or Garuda clones.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Over the course of 30 seconds, a monster has multiple chances of getting the debuff averaging out to around an 89% chance to obtain it depending on their attack speed. Once the debuff happens, that monster does 10% less damage for 20 seconds. This means that every mob has a 9 in 10 chance of doing 10% less damage for 20 seconds which is around 9% overall damage reduction.

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Your math is wrong. You don't account for many mobs living less than 20 seconds after receiving the debuff, in fact you seem to assume that every mob will live for exactly 48-50 seconds, delivering exactly 16 attacks and start attacking exactly when E4E is applied. The only way to reach your 9% number is if every mob lives for 20 seconds after the debuff is applied, and then you're counting ALL damage as 10% reduced, not just damage dealt after the debuff is applied.

So the truth is somewhere far less than your numbers suggest. I'm aware the damage reduced isn't as low as 0.3% either, but that isn't what my number was trying to show.

If we assume that the average mob lives for 30 seconds and gets 10 attacks, which is not ideal for E4E but probably not far from the truth, the actual amount of damage reduced by E4E on average is 3.9%, because the debuff doesn't run it's full effect on any application after the 4th hit. This number becomes even lower when you account for mobs than live less than 30 seconds.

So yes, if you can get this stuck to Titan HM before a Mountain Buster or something, wonderful! But in the average dungeon run this is less a skill where I'm thinking "Man I'm really excited about this crazy damage mitigation!" and more like "Well, I guess this thing is finally off cooldown. Whatever." The only time it's going to save me more than a single Cure I, if that, is during 8+ mob pack pulls in WP, so maybe that's where I'll try to remember it exists.

It's useful enough that I have it set on BLM and use it frequently. Large trash pulls, Titan, infrequent high-damage scenarios in dungeons, etc.

Given the cross-class options that WHM has available, is there really any reason not to have it? Even if it goes unused 99% of the time.

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Originally Posted by Saevel

Large trash pulls, Titan, infrequent high-damage scenarios in dungeons, etc.

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This is why I never got in the habit of using it. I save my big cooldowns (3 minutes is the lower end of big to me) for the infrequent high-damage scenarios. Due to the unpredictability of most of these combined with learning how to use my other tools instead, E4E is less something I rely on and more like a cooldown I blow just because it's up.

I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've used Benediction for the same reason. There's not many scenarios where I need to heal 6000+ HP right now but not for another five minutes. So I learn to deal with it without the benefit of Benediction being up, and that becomes my go-to tactic instead.

usefull skill , a def buff
i'll throw anything to buff my tank

been using it E4E + adlo and stoneskin ( as sch )
as whm e4e+stoneskin and ask sch ( if there's any ) to adlo the tank

Muahahaha! (evil laughter) E4E+stoneskin(+)+Virus(+)+Adlo = invincibility!!!

You should pick up all of your cross-class skills. Eye for an Eye is very effective whether you are speed running or fighting difficult monsters.

Id say you dont need it, but sure it will help. I still havnt gotten it and have cleared coil, and only got swiftcast recently for t5, and even that is not a must. The game isnt that hard, but yes it can be very useful.

I want E4E for sr runs through WP primarily. I'm still gonna use it on bosses just so I can see how it performs with my own two eyes (not that I doubt everyone's numbers or anything). With SE removing Thunder from my dps rotation and Virus I am now trying to decide what I'm gonna add in... What are you guys planning on bringing into your Xclass skills?

Personally I use it often with virus. It helps out in WP speed runs and Coil Turn 1 after the split. Virus + Eye for an Eye + Regen --> swiftcast Medica II. Keeps anything alive.

Overrated skill. I have it now, but I've been doing SR WPs, Titan, and some stages in coil without it with little issue. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's not useful but it's an extremely niche skill imo.