Awfully weak story... or is it? [WARNING:SPOILERS]

How do I not like Gaius? Simple.
I look at him, and I see this:
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/3...32e4f3a51.jpeg

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

Look at how the soldiers of Ul'dah treat their own people (especially the women). It's pretty horrible stuff, and not something that allows you to call them any shade of "good".

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There is a reason I choose to join Twin Adders

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

There is a reason I choose to join Twin Adders

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Ah, the forest cult who turns away starving and dying refugees. Who worship and serve elementals that steal children from their parents. What pure paragons of virtue and idealism.

@BlueMage: You keep counterpointing Empire evil with city-state evils. How about you admit that they both are absolutely terrible and deserve a swift departure from this plane of existence. The Scions may be inept, but at they're far better off than any other group of people right now.

While it would have been nice to have a Langrisser 2 (Der Langrisser on SFC)-style story fork, it's basically impossible to accomplish in a modern MMO, especially with a persistent story arc. You would have to lock out Prae, CM, make two separate stories, etc, etc, and then somehow slam them all into the same spot at the end. At least in a single-player RPG, ending up in a different place ends with the end of the game. In an MMO, your character is still in the game world, and you have to pull them together not only within persistent endgame content but also for future expansions.

It's worth comparing to what SWTOR did with Flashpoints. In Cademimu, light-side Imperials would intervene with "Stop killing innocent Imperial citizens!" and dark-side Imps would just say "Capitulate, whelp!", but the action would be the same -- stop the guy by any means necessary. You'll have different motivations with the same outcome because you can't afford separate outcomes with in the game world.

(Re: the gods, the definition of Good King Moggle Mog XII as a "myth made manifest" makes me wonder if the Gods will be 12 incarnations of the five races' primals.)

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

Its always better to fight for the leader you choose than the leader you don't - but I guess that's CrAzY tAlK!

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No. It's crazy beliveing in a dictator to begin with.
Side note: the admiral use the iron fist not because it's a tyrant per se, but because it's the only way to organize a bunch of cut throats who until yesterday did all the fuck they wanted without any control. Limsa it's a cove of pirates, don't forget it. The maelstrom it's there to give them order.

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The dark mothercrystal is Zodiark.

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This is stated where ? In turn 5 ? If so, i have still to clear it.

tbh bluemage, the logic you're using is starting to sound like those who thinks that what Germany/Japan did in WW2 were actually good.

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Originally Posted by Vactus

@BlueMage: You keep counterpointing Empire evil with city-state evils. How about you admit that they both are absolutely terrible and deserve a swift departure from this plane of existence.

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Admit? I've been trying to make the point from the start that they're both capable of evil. Way to not read the thread and blindly attack though.

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

Ah, the forest cult who turns away starving and dying refugees. Who worship and serve elementals that steal children from their parents. What pure paragons of virtue and idealism.

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If you are putting this way, Roman Cathloic in Vertican is probably 100 times worst.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

No. It's crazy beliveing in a dictator to begin with.
Side note: the admiral use the iron fist not becaus it's a tyrant per se, but because it's the only way to organize a bunch of cut throats who until yesterday did all the fuck they wantede wanted without any control. Limsa it's a cove of pirates, don't forget it. The maelstrom it's there to give them order.

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Yet you're the one who believes in a dictator: the admiral.

I'm just pointing out that Gaius uses the same justification as Admiral: establishing order.

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Originally Posted by Nica

tbh bluemage, the logic you're using is starting to sound like those who thinks that what Germany/Japan did in WW2 were actually good.

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And Godwin's law strikes again.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

And Godwin's law strikes again.

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you sir, win.

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Originally Posted by Nica

tbh bluemage, the logic you're using is starting to sound like those who thinks that what Germany/Japan did in WW2 were actually good.

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Actually, I'm pointing out that all sides have committed crimes. But then, you seem the type who believes that America is always "the pure good guyz" and has never ever committed war crimes. Ironically, the country that was founded on "We're gonna forcibly take over these people's land with our superior technology." and still goes by that motto today. Sounds a bit like Garlemald.

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

Yet you're the one who believes in a dictator: the admiral.

I'm just pointing out that Gaius uses the same justification as Admiral: establishing order.

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Ok, good. What's your point then ? I clearly stated in my very first post Gaius is not "evil" but on a different fence. It's not a monodimentional villain, he have a good side like a bad side. Still, we are on different sides, and such we are enemies.

since i'm italian, i'll make an hystorical reference: Mussolini. It did lots of good things: reclaim swamps, giving jobs, , food, building structures. Still, he was a crueless men, who negated every opposition by the force, he endorsed the racial laws of Hitles, he indoctrinated (like the garleans) the new generations to believe the fascism was good and invincible. Since he made good thing too, then this negate all the bad he did ?

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

Admit? I've been trying to make the point from the start that they're both capable of evil. Way to not read the thread and blindly attack though.

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If you seriously believe that was me 'attacking' you, then you are too blindsided from nerd rage to actually have a coherent thought. (That's an attack right there)

You were justifying on page 2 why it's better to chill with Gaius than any of the other city state leaders. He is worse than they are by miles (malms?), well maybe not Limsa, and you think you'd rather fight for him? You don't get a choice of anything when you're in his camp. It's the Garlean indoctrinated way or death. Period. End of story.

Everyone knows they're both capable of evil, but you're early points were that Gaius and the Garleans were some how less evil and in a sense better than the city state leaders. Which isn't true.

@Nero: I forget whom in this thread, but they said he wasn't a crazy murderer... apparently that person forgot when he gets introduced and straight up killed a guy. A guy that I think may have been a spy, but it doesn't outright say it. Still he kills him and anyone that gets in his way of surpassing Cid as the heir apparent to engineering power.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Summoning a moon (to say nothing of the sleeping dragon Primal inside it) to crash into Eorzea? I don't think you can get any more evil than that.

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I don't know about you, but these guys summoned a moon to crash into the land and destroy their enemy, yet they are treated as the good guys :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAcbSvmixPw

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

Yet you're the one who believes in a dictator: the admiral.

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a dictator who got her position by winning a boat race, and can easily lose it in the next :3

'Til sea swallows all!

One thing that stood out to me is when Gaius is face to face with Garuda and she tries to enthrall him she says something along the lines of him already being enthralled by another primal... something along the lines of "You have already been touched by her". So I always assumed Gaius was being manipulated by another Primal, also a female (maybe Shiva?) to erase the primal threat and save the aether and the lands of Eorzea for her. Unless I missed something else. So my thought is there may be a larger primal threat who is using the empire to gather the aether for themselves.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

One thing that stood out to me is when Gaius is face to face with Garuda and she tries to enthrall him she says something along the lines of him already being enthralled by another primal... something along the lines of "You have already been touched by her". So I always assumed Gaius was being manipulated by another Primal, also a female (maybe Shiva?) to erase the primal threat and save the aether and the lands of Eorzea for her. Unless I missed something else. So my thought is there may be a larger primal threat who is using the empire to gather the aether for themselves.

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I thought it was along the lines of an Ascian or Zodiark or something like that, not a normal primal, but something far more powerful.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

One thing that stood out to me is when Gaius is face to face with Garuda and she tries to enthrall him she says something along the lines of him already being enthralled by another primal... something along the lines of "You have already been touched by her". So I always assumed Gaius was being manipulated by another Primal, also a female (maybe Shiva?) to erase the primal threat and save the aether and the lands of Eorzea for her. Unless I missed something else. So my thought is there may be a larger primal threat who is using the empire to gather the aether for themselves.

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That's the PC whom garuda tried to enthrall, ans she was talking about Hydaelyn....

and then Gaius proceeds to curb stomp all three summoned primals with Ultima Weapon :3

Man! reading lore threads is so much fun! I'm getting excited about where the story is going with the following patches. What expansions will bring. Good stuff!

ALso I like the empire more than the city-states. F those guys.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

One thing that stood out to me is when Gaius is face to face with Garuda and she tries to enthrall him she says something along the lines of him already being enthralled by another primal... something along the lines of "You have already been touched by her". So I always assumed Gaius was being manipulated by another Primal, also a female (maybe Shiva?) to erase the primal threat and save the aether and the lands of Eorzea for her. Unless I missed something else. So my thought is there may be a larger primal threat who is using the empire to gather the aether for themselves.

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Something about that cutscene seems odd. I always assumed she was talking to our player character, even though a second ago she was throwing a hissy fit at Gaius and a second later, she's all like "SHE TOUCHED YOU. DIE."

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Originally Posted by DragonSlayer45

Something about that cutscene seems odd. I always assumed she was talking to our player character, even though a second ago she was throwing a hissy fit at Gaius and a second later, she's all like "SHE TOUCHED YOU. DIE."

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well she says it just after she tries to enthrall Gaius (whom I always want to call Gaius von Baltar) so my assumption is she is speaking to him

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

Actually, I'm pointing out that all sides have committed crimes. But then, you seem the type who believes that America is always "the pure good guyz" and has never ever committed war crimes. Ironically, the country that was founded on "We're gonna forcibly take over these people's land with our superior technology." and still goes by that motto today. Sounds a bit like Garlemald.

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So original, play the "blame america" red herring card, while continuing your terrible logic of "hey, those guys aren't angels either!"

Made all the more terrible considering I'm not actually from America.

Seriously, go read up on more actual lores instead of making terribad conspiracy theory about fictional politics.

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

Yet you're the one who believes in a dictator: the admiral.

I'm just pointing out that Gaius uses the same justification as Admiral: establishing order.

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Merlwyb isn't threatening the homes, culture and livelihoods of the players. If you're looking for pure utopias of immaculate ideals, you're not going to find one on Hydaelyn, and most utopias don't stand under scrutiny anyway.

So, yes, there are poor people, there are criminals, there are bastards and thieves. That's no excuse to destroy everything we hold dear, and that's what the empire represents to Eorzea: an outsider forcing the destruction of peoples' lives into a culture of conformity.

To use an American perspective, imagine a person running for the presidency, promising to eliminate unemployment, hunger, fix the roads and make it a stronger country, but to do all that, he must do away with the constitution and bill of rights.I'm not saying its impossible, but the circumstances would have to be nigh post-apocalyptic, and even then hope of restoration may still see him lose.

Hope is a plague to a man like Gaius, he is a min-maxer at heart who doesn't see people, he sees tools, and calls them defective or not. I couldn't respect a god with such an outlook, what chance does Gaius have?

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

And Godwin's law strikes again.

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when one starts to justify and rationalizing genocide/institutionalized rape... well....

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Merlwyb isn't threatening the homes, culture and livelihoods of the players.

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No, she's just threatening the homes, culture, and livelihoods of the beast tribes (particularly the kobolds), breaking a long-standing peace treaty because territorial expansion is super awesome fun times. But no one cares when it's beast tribes, huh?

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Originally Posted by Nica

when one starts to justify and rationalizing genocide/institutionalized rape... well....

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Dude, it's a fictional character. I mean... really.

I was also disappointed with the story line, never have i ever experienced such a short and poorly put together FF storyline. Not only was the story weak and not very well thought out, there was little to no character development. As well as a disturbing lack of voice acting, which in my opinion, really adds tons of depth to the storyline. It honestly felt like they just threw something together so you could blaze through it in order to get into end game just so we could start mindlessly grinding towards stupid gear... When i buy a Final Fantasy game i expect a compelling storyline, not this nonsense. I was very disappointed with the story.

PS: We pick a voice for our character and they never speak! Wtf?

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Originally Posted by Naunet

No, she's just threatening the homes, culture, and livelihoods of the beast tribes (particularly the kobolds), breaking a long-standing peace treaty because territorial expansion is super awesome fun times. But no one cares when it's beast tribes, huh?

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ignoring the fact that Limsa Lominsa broke the treaty with the Kobolds several generations before Merlwyb, the kobolds did not instantly respond and remained relatively passive until they were able to summon Titan after the Battle of Silvertear Skies, when Midgardsormr was felled taking down the imperial's flagship, Agrius.
or at least that was my understanding from the LL city part of the main story

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Originally Posted by Psychosamm

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Who is the more stupid, the "nonsense" game with a "mindless grind" or the critic still playing it as of yesterday?

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

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We're made aware of Zodiark in the last cutscene, when Lahabrea talks with the other Ascians.

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Originally Posted by Kayokane

the kobolds did not instantly respond and remained relatively passive until they were able to summon Titan after the Battle of Silvertear Skies

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They didn't respond largely because they had no effective means of combating Lominsa's military. It was either give up the land or get slaughtered. So yea, when they finally had the means to fight back, fight back they did.

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Originally Posted by Psychosamm

As well as a disturbing lack of voice acting, which in my opinion, really adds tons of depth to the storyline.

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The voice acting, English VA's at least, are terrible. Not all mind you; Gaius' and Thancred's VAs get the job done, among a few others, but the rest? Terrible. Less heard of it, the better. I'd rather read what Minfilla has to say than have to hear it.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

They didn't respond largely because they had no effective means of combating Lominsa's military. It was either give up the land or get slaughtered. So yea, when they finally had the means to fight back, fight back they did.

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The governance of countries is not like a game of Civ5, where there's enough for everyone and trustworthiness abounds. My point is, the 3 city states are looking to their own affairs because the carnage wrought has left them in a weakened state with enemies at the door. So no, no one cares about the beast tribes. Not since the little moon dropped and the legions who dropped said moon tried to slaughter us. The times are more desperate than you think. It's only when the story is finished that one major threat out of several is done with.

Let's not paint the whole orders/city-states with the colours of a few selected individuals. They're not utopic kingdoms alright, they have their own share of pretty problems... But at least, if you don't agree with the way Uldah or Gridania are run, you're free to leave/ask for change. Which I cannot say for the Empire :/.

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Originally Posted by Leoheart

We're made aware of Zodiark in the last cutscene, when Lahabrea talks with the other Ascians.

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I know. What i asked is, where has been said the purple mothercrystal is zodiark ?

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

This is stated where ? In turn 5 ? If so, i have still to clear it.

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It's not actually stated anywhere. Like I said, most of it is implied. Lahabrea reveals Zodiark to be the Ascian god and then your character suddenly sees a dark crystal much like Hydaelyn (whom we know IS a god)... the scene structure just heavily implies that crystal to be Zodiark, especially given that the Ascians are directly opposed to Hydaelyn.

Most of the lore in FFXIV is told through subtleties and inferences; it's the best way to explore lore in my opinion but it also means you have to connect the dots yourself most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

It's not actually stated anywhere. Like I said, most of it is implied. Lahabrea reveals Zodiark to be the Ascian god and then your character suddenly sees a dark crystal much like Hydaelyn (whom we know IS a god)... the scene structure just heavily implies that crystal to be Zodiark, especially given that the Ascians are directly opposed to Hydaelyn.

Most of the lore in FFXIV is told through subtleties and inferences; it's the best way to explore lore in my opinion but it also means you have to connect the dots yourself most of the time.

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but still, it's not clearly told, so it could be wrong. I'll keep it just "purple mothercrystal" then.

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

Look at how the soldiers of Ul'dah treat their own people (especially the women). It's pretty horrible stuff, and not something that allows you to call them any shade of "good".

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Please provide examples. :)

Wow...

Who needs to be worried over the war between Garlemald and Eorzea?
We've got a gripping, dramatic war going on right here in this thread. Lol.

[starts looking up at the skies waiting for someone to drop a moon on everyone here]

Hmm...think I'll go stand over...THERE. Yes. ^^