Titan [Extreme Mode]

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Originally Posted by Esmian

Kinda think you guys are being a bit ridiculous about paid wins. People who pay for wins are typically encouraged to actually try their best in the fight and not told just to go off and kill themselves. A decent portion of them actually do pretty well in the fights up until they get killed by a mechanic.

The only real difference between carrying for free and carrying on a paid run is that when you're doing it for free the person you're helping is generally expected to not drag the group down and contribute to the fight's success. In fact a less skilled player probably faces less hostility/frustration from the group if they make a mistake in a paid run because their contribution is more of a bonus.

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Truth, just because someone buys a win doesn't mean they don't know the fight. Titan is an 8 person fight and at the moment you could probably beat it with a minimum of 4 people. What these people pay for is not ALWAYS a carry but 7 other capable individuals which could take a while to find if one does not have experienced friends or FC members. Some people spend over a week looking for that "Perfect" pick up group and most people can make more than what it costs to pay for a titan run in a single day. The obvious option is to save time and pay for assistance instead of relying on the part of the community which refuses to learn the mechanics and blame lag.

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Originally Posted by Kirsi

Truth, just because someone buys a win doesn't mean they don't know the fight. Titan is an 8 person fight and at the moment you could probably beat it with a minimum of 4 people. What these people pay for is not ALWAYS a carry but 7 other capable individuals which could take a while to find if one does not have experienced friends or FC members. Some people spend over a week looking for that "Perfect" pick up group and most people can make more than what it costs to pay for a titan run in a single day. The obvious option is to save time and pay for assistance instead of relying on the part of the community which refuses to learn the mechanics and blame lag.

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I paid 100k for a Titan carry. I regularly make 200+k a day. And yeah, couldnt find groups of FC-only 8.

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Originally Posted by Kirschey

Because it's unfair and mean to ask someone incapable of doing content to pay for it! Just because they aren't skilled enough doesn't mean they shouldn't get it for free like everyone else.
What are you, an elitist who wants to increase the gear gap between skilled and unskilled players?

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You don't get the point he still needs to collect the money to pay for it.
It is the same as with the Tomestones if you collect enough you get Ilvl90 gear :)

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Originally Posted by Tarushade

Can't wait to start helping people for free and strengthen the community by helping others in need.

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If by "strengthen the community" you mean "carrying people through encounters they're not ready for into even harder content", then, uh, you're doing a fantastic job.

edit:
Obviously not every person getting carried through Titan is terrible/needing more practice on the fight but speaking from a hundred or so Titan runs of experience, an awful lot of them are.

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Originally Posted by Feyniphia

TWO Landslides indicators on later stages of the fight? AWESOME, time to see who'll get pushed into that edge. :D

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From what I see, that's three landslide lines... where's your gods now?

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Originally Posted by MikefriedSpes

Just how life works. Pay for something you otherwise can't accomplish with your own merits. not to say you can't do it, but everyone is different. Don't hate people who pay for Titan nor the people who charge.

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Sounds like I should start charging to heal AK runs. Or any dungeon run, for that matter.

If they don't like it they can do it without me, right?

Anyone else see this as just a bad design? If you're going to release new content, why be lazy about it by tweaking a few numbers up and call it "extreme" mode? I started getting bored of wow ever since their new definition of new content was "hard mode".

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Originally Posted by yamface

Anyone else see this as just a bad design? If you're going to release new content, why be lazy about it by tweaking a few numbers up and call it "extreme" mode? I started getting bored of wow ever since their new definition of new content was "hard mode".

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Well I'd wait until we have a full kind of idea about what to expect from these battles. We don't know that they're really just gimmicked hard modes set to be annoying.

Well if this so called extreme mode is only harder because it does more in less time.. I am extremly dissapointed in the whole design SE has probably no Idea how to do a Hard boss.

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Originally Posted by yamface

Anyone else see this as just a bad design? If you're going to release new content, why be lazy about it by tweaking a few numbers up and call it "extreme" mode? I started getting bored of wow ever since their new definition of new content was "hard mode".

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Bad design is taking what makes most people rage (one hit kill mechanics + latency) and making it worse. They're betting too high on their "0.3 update delay" fix; I'm sure it'll still be almost unplayable during peak hours.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

Bad design is taking what makes most people rage (one hit kill mechanics + latency) and making it worse. They're betting too high on their "0.3 update delay" fix; I'm sure it'll still be almost unplayable during peak hours.

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Bad design is an understatement. "Almost" unplayable? In Europe, you may drop the "almost".

I have already unsubscribed on this combined issue of "server side evaluation of player position" plus "one hit kill mechanics" plus "long latency". Tired of getting hit by that stupid "mini-ray of death" when you were out of the bad even before the mob started casting. If you think of it, it's surreal.

As Danny Glover says to Mel Gibson, I'm too old for this... nonsense.

uhm, there's 1 landslide going behind him, 2 to the sides, and 2 to the front...that's 5 landslides, not 2 or 3.
Then there's bombs in each not-so-safe safe-spot; So pick a bomb, it's gonna be a blast.

You dont help anyone, by carrying them, you make them lazy, overgeared, and underskilled.
Which leads to that awkward moment, when ilv50-55 DF PUG, perform better, in WP, than bought relic +1 party.
Which leads to vote kicks, and bad community.
So it's a term i learned, it's called false kindness :)
If you want to be kind and helpful, you can still make a Titan party, to give them the chance to fight in a party, that knows the fight; then they have the chance to actually learn it/get better/clear it. If they die, you wipe, so they only clear it, once they are capable.

It's flabbergasting to me how so many people think there are latency or design issue.
Never had a problem really, even from EU.
Then again, didn't have problems in 1.0 either really, but ppl were going nuts about latency there.

The one thing that's sad about SE's design is how pretty much all mobs have a specific pattern for their skills.
Would be a lot more challenging and fun if it was randomnized imo.
Let's hope for randomnized skill order in Extreme modes. (:

Aery, for all I care they may give bosses skills that wipe all the party without chance of avoiding them. It's your problem now. :P

Just like regular Titan, the sales will start high but then go down to nothing. There was a time people charged a million for a Titan run. Now people will do it for free out of boredom and even those that charge don't charge more than like 100k. A few months after Titan Extreme comes out, wins will be cheap/free/easy, just like regular Titan.

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Originally Posted by Goodberry

Aery, for all I care they may give bosses skills that wipe all the party without chance of avoiding them. It's your problem now. :P

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That sounds like awesome fun actually, I'd be down for it!

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

Just like regular Titan, the sales will start high but then go down to nothing. There was a time people charged a million for a Titan run. Now people will do it for free out of boredom and even those that charge don't charge more than like 100k. A few months after Titan Extreme comes out, wins will be cheap/free/easy, just like regular Titan.

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still selling for 300+

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Originally Posted by Nura

You don't get the point he still needs to collect the money to pay for it.
It is the same as with the Tomestones if you collect enough you get Ilvl90 gear :)

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My post was dripping with sarcasm, sorry if that didn't come across well.
I think it's perfectly fine to sell to people, as it is a service for something they would otherwise be unable to complete.

My cpu barely runs this game and I have lag problems up the wazoo, but I have still managed to overcome this and got a couple relics. The victory was so sweet! Especially since I did it with complete strangers shouting at revtol who were just as crappy as I was. I can't wait to try these extreme modes!

Coil proved SE game plan.
1. Lets make a game causal friendly. Get people Hooked.
2. Add stuff people take 2-4 months for 8 people to beat all the time saying the game is causal friendly.
3. 8 people finally win, and we make the content a lot easier and causal friendly. but still XX% of the player base can't win because of lag issues.
4. There is no lag issue the game is Causal friendly get better gear, (ya know they can't get better gear without getting this gear 1st, Ya I know but don't tell them that they will keep trying and we will make millions.)

It's truly pathetic to see people discussing more about the prices of selling runs than ways to tackle the content itself.

This truly is a sad day for the MMO gamer that actually plays the game instead of buying their way to the top.

You don't wanna pay for it? Don't! nobody's forcing you, simple as that

dont ever take a taxi ride, its totally cheating and ruins your real life experience!

./sacarsm off.

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Originally Posted by MieyCyruuuus

dont ever take a taxi ride, its totally cheating and ruins your real life experience!

./sacarsm off.

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The thing about paying for carries though is that these people just end up in end game with absolutely no idea how to play their Job effectively, then whine about wiping to easily avoidable mechanics.

a surprising amount of my buyers does surprisingly well in the run. the rest, no so much.
at the end of the day, if someone is bad, dont party with them.

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Originally Posted by VidulaSaix

The thing about paying for carries though is that these people just end up in end game with absolutely no idea how to play their Job effectively, then whine about wiping to easily avoidable mechanics.

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True enough. It's amazing how many people think the current Titan HM is just the be all and end all of difficult content. The reality is that he has a set pattern and never diverges from it. Why would you need to buy a win for this? The only answer I may reasonably accept is because there are a plethora of players who are unable to grasp his pattern and they don't apply what they know about the fight to their movements. When your PT consists of 2-3 of these folks your chance of winning is fairly low.

Me? I dance during the fight. More than that, I couldn't possibly feel like I've accomplished anything if I just paid someone else to do it for me. Have some pride as gamers and work for what you get.

I think of what these win buyers will do come Extreme mode and it's fairly sad because the reality is that means there will be fewer knowledgeable players for the rest of us to team up with.

I can't wait to do this for free for people on my server

People pay for titan runs "Oh no server's gonna be full of noobs with relics who can't play their class!"

Free carry "Damn right! let's strengthen the community bla bla bla"

double F'in Standards when the result is the same. People with relics who don't know what to do.

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Originally Posted by Lecreuset

People pay for titan runs "Oh no server's gonna be full of noobs with relics who can't play their class!"

Free carry "Damn right! let's strengthen the community bla bla bla"

double F'in Standards when the result is the same. People with relics who don't know what to do.

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Well, I don't think they mean "strengthen" as in "making players better" so much as they're trying to stop people from being taken advantage of due to their desperation to clear Titan HM. Those Titan sellers are like predatory birds or something. Snatching up the little rabbits who haven't yet learned better.

Bump for update.

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Originally Posted by Lecreuset

You don't wanna pay for it? Don't! nobody's forcing you, simple as that

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We are forced to read the shouts!
Community is to make friends, but to sell something is making customers.
I will help when I see requests, that was fun in 1.x, but since 2.0 everyone is just selling and no one ever asked about help again.
All you see nowadays are "searching for..." shouts, to find someone asking for help is rare!

2.0 has become like a Supermarked, you go in, buy your stuff and go out - that kills all fun.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

We are forced to read the shouts!
Community is to make friends, but to sell something is making customers.
I will help when I see requests, that was fun in 1.x, but since 2.0 everyone is just selling and no one ever asked about help again.
All you see nowadays are "searching for..." shouts, to find someone asking for help is rare!

2.0 has become like a Supermarked, you go in, buy your stuff and go out - that kills all fun.

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I have no Problems with that. Why not give everyone anything and make them happy. \o/


Sarcasm Off

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Originally Posted by Tarushade

Can't wait to start helping people for free and strengthen the community by helping others in need.

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Oh, nice words)

As for me- Im waiting this new Titan, because @old@ Titan is very boring and easy) (for me)

More like... Titan LAG mode! Eh?! Eh?!


I have lag issues ,_,

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Originally Posted by Melithea

Sounds like I should start charging to heal AK runs. Or any dungeon run, for that matter.

If they don't like it they can do it without me, right?

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And they will. Every other healer will do it for free.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

And they will. Every other healer will do it for free.

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And people will do Titan for free. Glad we could put an end to that silly debate.

Please just release Ramuh and Fenrir, SE. I wan't to fight them so bad q_q

Also:

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Originally Posted by LittleArrow

-Duck Picture-

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D'awww, that Duck is 2Cute. I wan't one. (Do they make dwarf ducks?)

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Originally Posted by Kirschey

Because it's unfair and mean to ask someone incapable of doing content to pay for it! Just because they aren't skilled enough doesn't mean they shouldn't get it for free like everyone else.
What are you, an elitist who wants to increase the gear gap between skilled and unskilled players?

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You said it yourself..."incapable of doing content". That's all that person needs to know. You are incapable, so either get better, or don't do it. Simple as that. Carrying people through a fight they are "not capable of doing" hurts the community in the log run, cause they get access to things, they are not good enough for(yet). Instead of improving they choose to get carried...IMO that's a person I don't wanna play with anyway and wouldn't miss him for a second in the so called "community". Cause people like that are cockroaches.

I know it's a game...but how would you feel if you just got your doctors or lawyers degree after spending 5 years studying and then someone decides to give that same degree to a person who just bought it for 1M and got it w/o any effort...or even worse...give it to them for free...
Not that it belittles your accomplishment, but since he doesn't know what he's doing, he will be a bad doctor/lawyer and only hurt people around him with his incompetence and lack of knowledge.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

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Again, that post is heavily soaked in sarcasm. I suppose I should start putting disclaimers since people on these forums actually have that mentality.

You have to account for the fact that there are people who just simply cannot get better. They can either A) endlessly wipe on titan and have the game end there for them due to inability to adapt and learn or B) buy titan win, have shiny weapon, stand looking pretty with everyone else since hopefully they will be intelligent enough to figure they are not ready for coil or things harder.
I have no issues with people selling runs to make money, in other games you usually sell the loot straight up instead of having a gimp with you for the whole run. You could usually tell who bought things and who earned them from playing with the people.

There are people who are impatient and don't want to wait for an alt, people who couldn't pass titan no matter how many times they tried, people who main crafters and just want a shiny on a combat class, there's a multitude of reasons people could want a carry through titan. I've sold runs to some really god awful players, and some to players who weren't bad at all and just didn't want to take the time and effort of putting groups together. I've done runs for free for friends, LS/FC mates, friends of friends, people i've only run other instances with a couple times, but I value my time more than to have the possibility of spending hours wiping to help some completely random person out for free.

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Originally Posted by Goodberry

Bad design is an understatement. "Almost" unplayable? In Europe, you may drop the "almost".

I have already unsubscribed on this combined issue of "server side evaluation of player position" plus "one hit kill mechanics" plus "long latency". Tired of getting hit by that stupid "mini-ray of death" when you were out of the bad even before the mob started casting. If you think of it, it's surreal.

As Danny Glover says to Mel Gibson, I'm too old for this... nonsense.

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If you truly unsubscribed, then just leave us who actually play alone, you who have the filthy habit of quitting.