DO NOT put in an MVP VOTING system!

wrong thread! SORRY!

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Originally Posted by Grailer

What they need is a player history . How many times you have successfully run certain dungeons . Deaths , kills , number of times died in AOE .. Basically one of those things you see in games like GTA which shows things like

time spent on mount ,
how many times you have quit DF
amount of crits
average DPS per run
damage taken

etc etc I know this is a lot of data but a player could tell right away if you are bad or good , quitter or stayer . etc

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They already have this, its called achievments, you can see how many dungeons people ran by looking them up on lodestone.

Somehow I also have a hunch this MVP system is not gonna be a very good idea unless they have tons of countermeasure to make it seem fair.

Imagine if you hope to be voted MVP, completed 50 dungeons/raids/duties and not being voted over and over again, you will one day spam on forums and claim its a terrible system.

I foresee this, but i also want to see what becomes of MVP system and how are they going to implement it^^

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Originally Posted by Farmer

Its been brought to my attention that you cannot vote for someone you enterd duty finder with. This fosters an atmosphere of ONLY SOLO PLAYING, which would be completly ANTI-COMMUNITY also, which is another reason why this system should not be put in game!

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Now you're just contradicting yourself.
Either it's bullying cause you can support your friends or it's anti-community cause you can't vote for people you joined with.
Critique it after you know SOMETHING about it, at least.

You haven't given a single way this system will be abused or bad for the community.
Why?
Because you don't know!

Is there a reason they put this in? If someone can find me the link to the article I"d be happy. It just ...

Is there rewards? Will the DF put those "special" people together or something? Or is it just some dumb ass thing like getting a smiley face sticker on your A+ paper in school?

I guess MVP is an incentive for people to join DF without premade, so they can get voted and get some reward. Well its a nice to have feature, not much against it.

Since the OP is missing definitive arguments why he is against it (just saying it will be very bad without any plausible explanation... sorry that counts for trolling in my book).

Same about a vote to kick feature. I still cant get, why people are against it.

If you are in a group and nobody in that group wants to run with you - they would right now do anything in order to get you out. They complain, insult, stop working in order to make you leave.

Why on earth would you even want to stay in a group with them?

The kick-feature (all others have to agree) is surely better then what is going on now.

On the other hand - the kick feature will be a god-send to get rid of the leechers and abusive players.

Actually... if a MVP system causes ppl to be pretenious of their behaviour, I personally find it bad for the community.

Playing with 2 faced people that are only in for the rewards or dealing with actual jerks.

I prefer honest people.

Do trust lalafells

MVP rewards are a reward to players who are nice to strangers in the DF. If you want the rewards so badly that you will ditch your friends and queue solo, it stands to reason you will also control your mouth and manners and at least pretend to be nice. This way, "nice" people in DF increases, and the goal of the system is achieved.

So what if you are always a nice guy (like me) but like to queue with a friend? Well you still stand to get 2 votes from the 2 strangers. Since you're only nice to 2 other strangers, instead of being nice to 3 other strangers, what makes you think you are entitled to 3 MVP votes? Similarly for the case when you queue with 2 friends, you still can get 1 vote.

And if you always queue with 3 friends (i.e. no strangers), what make you think you are entitled to the "rewards for being nice to strangers"?

If you don't play PVP, you are not entitled to PVP rewards.
If you don't run AK/WP/myth-dropping-dungeon, you are not entitled to earn myth tomes.
If you don't play Coils, you are not entitled to Coils gear drops.

If you don't "be nice to strangers", you are not entitled to "rewards for be nice to strangers".

I don't understand this topic. People don't vote for you, you don't vote for them, you lose nothing.

negative nancy doesnt like change

i feel the game needs it as to encourage team players rather than one-man-band kind of players. a good player who will get a positive vote (in my eye) would be the patience ones, the ones who can stretch outside their comfort zone to help someone struggling, and make a contribution to party chat so we're all on the same page. On the other hands I would not vote for tanks who dont wait for the party, dont label mobs, or dont take mobs off the healer. Nore would I vote for someone (usually the healer) who wanders off and opens chests before the fight is done. So you can see that this an encouraging feature not one that the 1% of bullys in the game can take advantage of.

*ASSUMED* MVP Drawbacks:
-- Can only be voted for by strangers: This encourages not partying with friends before going into DF to get a chance for more votes
-- Bias towards what is 'MVP': Only people with best gear will get MVP votes, pushing back the non-best-geared from getting rewards?
-- Hostility: Not sure how, someone mentioned this, but would like to know how it can be abused?

*ASSUMED* MVP Benefits:
-- People who are normally annoying and mean might exercise a bit of self-restraint so they can get a shiny at the end of the run

(I'm a bit sad we have to reward people to behave nice, rather than just have nice people).

Note: A lot of 'concerns' seen here can be mitigated by another DF setting -- Play Style, where you can choose that you are 'relaxed'.
I believe that by choosing 'Relaxed' play style you will be able to avoid the majority of Gear Obsessed/Speed Run people out there and meet nice friendly type.

I don't like this system because most of the vote will go to Healer and Tanker. There is no way to tell if a DPS is doing well because there is no DPS meters. Just wait, you will see that DPS will complains they get no Vote and Tank, Healer get all the love and vote.

I don't understand the logic in people calling an MVP system unfair.
MVP is Most Valuable Player
There is nothing unfair about saying "Guy A performed better than Guy B" There are going to be many different scenarios for why someone is voted MVP, and many different opinions on why people voted for said person. In an otherwise normal run where everything goes smoothly, but dps1 has far more gear/dealt way more damage than dps2, why would it be unfair to say dps2 is not the most valuable?
Makes me think of the "Everyone has to get a trophy, because no one can be a loser or they might get their feelings hurt" mentality

I think having an MVP system in-game is rather silly, as it won't really do much to promote better attitudes. If I see that someone is new here message at the beginning of an instance, I'll ask if they need anything explained with or without some point system to pat me on the head, same as the guy who doesn't want to deal with these people will either up and leave or complain upon the first wipe.
If there are rewards to be purchased with the points, people would fake being overly nice/actually be more patient to get however many they need to buy whatever thing they want, then just go back to being normal.

I think a better ideas is to have a score board when clear the Instance like in PvP. How much each player Damaged Dealt, Most amount Heal, Most damaged taken, etc. This way it's fair to everyone so we don't vote the wrong person. For example someone talk more and nicely does not mean he deserved it more and is doing a better job.

The easiest/best way to prevent harassment or abuse...

Vote for me if I am in your duty finder :D

I give the best huggles as a Red Wizard, and you will get one if you vote me MVP!

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Originally Posted by Farmer

Then that would foster an atmosphere of solo playing only (running dutys without friends) so you can get a reward, which is another reason why you shouldnt have this system. If you cannot get a reward if you run with friends, that too is ANTI-community. Why have a system like this at all then?

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that's kinda what the DF is for? quickly get a group, if you don't have friends, to play with...
and if you run with friends, you don't need to worry about MVP anyways. and if you run with friends, why would you need MPV system, to let them know you're doing good? as pre-made, the group can just let you know how you did. Why have DF at all? you should just run with friends?
If friend-party could vote on each other, than they would just up-vote each other, and the system would be useless.
If someone is nice/good player, they will get more positive feedback, than negative. If they have some negative feedback....that's just like trolls on YT. There's not a single vid on YT, that doesn't have downvotes...but that doesn't mean that every vid on YT, is bad.

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Originally Posted by Farmer

Then that would foster an atmosphere of solo playing only (running dutys without friends) so you can get a reward, which is another reason why you shouldnt have this system. If you cannot get a reward if you run with friends, that too is ANTI-community. Why have a system like this at all then?

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No, it doesn't at all. I play regularly when my friends don't. Bonus for when my friends AREN'T around? Yes please.

Currently, many people wont enter a dungeon if they don't have 3 - 7 friends with them.
This encourages them to not only go it solo occasionally, but to also try to be a nice person or generally helpful to others in the hope they get the vote up.

Also, you never run a Dungeon 'solo', even if you queued via Duty Finder. Those other 3 people in there are people too and I've met some fantastic people through Duty Finder that i wouldn't have if i only ever played with a small circle of friends.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

I think a better ideas is to have a score board when clear the Instance like in PvP. How much each player Damaged Dealt, Most amount Heal, Most damaged taken, etc. This way it's fair to everyone so we don't vote the wrong person. For example someone talk more and nicely does not mean he deserved it more and is doing a better job.

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I can see it. The Bard spamming AOE and kitting so he can be the best DPS, the healer spending more time nuking than healing (and a dead DPS is less competition) ... like those basketball players who are sacrificing their team victory so they can get their triple-double stats.
I'm so looking forward to that :)

Oh, I'd also like to point that we're also getting a random queue option with bonus rewards (hinted at being Myths or Philo Tomes).
Combined with the MVP system, we could potentially be seeing high level/well geared players in lower level dungeons, leading to said higher level guiding newer players through said dungeon for an MVP vote, as opposed to raging that they're n00bs when they mess up an encounter (AV I'm looking at you).

MVP system is made to prevent jerkass on duty finder mission
When you run with friends, you don't have this problem of "bad community"...or you need to find other friends :P

And the rewards don't seem to be gamebreaking, so it's not a big deal even if people don't vote for you

Speedrunners will still need Allagan/Myth gear, to do WP/AK anyways, so they'll still need to form pre-mades. So probably you wont have to worry about them/their douche-baggery, in DF anyways.

I have no idea what is OP rambling about. It's bullying that you don't get a voted for MVP?

Man... I knew the world is going straight to hell and people get offended by everything, but has it really gone this bad? If you can't be the special snowflake that gets a vote you get offended?

Welcome to 2013 and 1st world problems. We really need that WWIII to bring people back to reality.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

I think a better ideas is to have a score board when clear the Instance like in PvP. How much each player Damaged Dealt, Most amount Heal, Most damaged taken, etc. This way it's fair to everyone so we don't vote the wrong person. For example someone talk more and nicely does not mean he deserved it more and is doing a better job.

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I'd lose to my own fairy and Warrior tanks in healing done when playing as a SCH.

Will voting be mandatory? I would rather not vote...

The problem I see with the MVP system is there's no standard definition of "value". The things I value may be in direct opposition to the things someone else values. I value kindness. I value saying "hello" at the start of a dungeon. I value "congratulations" to those who win loot. I value the person who says "Let's try again, we can do this!"

I couldn't care less about who hit more times, who racked up more points or anyone's fashion sense... oh, pardon me, whether someone is "undergeared" (/rolleyes). I do care whether someone contributes to the effort and doesn't just sit on their bum. I do care whether they are supportive of, rather than abusive to, our teammates. I do care whether they can laugh and don't take this GAME so doggone seriously.

What a shame that we even have to have this conversation...

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Originally Posted by Amiabelle

The problem I see with the MVP system is there's no standard definition of "value". The things I value may be in direct opposition to the things someone else values. I value kindness. I value saying "hello" at the start of a dungeon. I value "congratulations" to those who win loot. I value the person who says "Let's try again, we can do this!"

I couldn't care less about who hit more times, who racked up more points or anyone's fashion sense... oh, pardon me, whether someone is "undergeared" (/rolleyes). I do care whether someone contributes to the effort and doesn't just sit on their bum. I do care whether they are supportive of, rather than abusive to, our teammates. I do care whether they can laugh and don't take this GAME so doggone seriously.

What a shame that we even have to have this conversation...

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I share the same values. People who want my vote, you know what to do ...

I don't feel nice being evaluated by people based on their personal standards on the internet. Seems like I will have to stop using DF. One less tank AGAIN for randoms.

I can see several issues with this features.

Number one, it can/could be used as a bully feature. IDK if there will be extra rewards from being voted MVP at the end of a dungeon run, but I assume there will be, and with that said, people can just keep taunting other folks saying I am not gonna vote for you, you suck blah blah blah.

The second issue I see is this is probably going to be a two party member deal. In other words, the tank and healers will probably get the votes majority of the time and that stinks for dps players like myself.

Wow the OP is getting really worked up over something that hasn't even been tested out yet. Just slow down, take a deep breath and calm down! And remember the old adage, "When you assume you make a ass out of u and me."

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Originally Posted by Yurikitty

Wow the OP is getting really worked up over something that hasn't even been tested out yet. Just slow down, take a deep breath and calm down! And remember the old adage, "When you assume you make a ass out of u and me."

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You might be new to the internet. :(

I simply disagree. The MVP system is an incentive for people who care about the vanity items to not be a prick for fear of offending people and losing majority vote. Otherwise, people who don't care will act as they do already. The status quo can do nothing but improve.

lol, this is great. First its a feature that will cause hate, bullying, etc etc ... then when told its only and upvote that cant be abused by friends ... "IT PROMOTES SOLO PLAY!"

You should get into politics OP, youd fit right in. DF is made for solo players in the first place. The kinds of players that dont really have huge guilds/group of friends readily available to run any dungeon.

There's no down voting, only up voting. If you suck, you won't get voted for.

Also subpar gear lockouts are coming in 2.1 as well.

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Originally Posted by Espi

Will voting be mandatory? I would rather not vote...

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^
This.

I've had a few instances where I would absolutely vote a MVP like the Paladin in my first Praetorium that did not have to be there but patiently awaited until everyone had watched their cutscenes, explained in detail for every part and fight where to stand, how to move and what to expect.
That in my book deserves the MVP award.

For most DF dungeons I would indeed like the option to abstain from voting as most of those run with no more words than perhaps a hello at start.

How can we bully anyone by not voting MVP for him/her?

Yeah ummm I'm not going to vote.

My vote goes to the person who is nice, says "hello" and "thx for group" at the end. Ones that don't complain and if the party wipes try to advice on how to change our strategy so that the fight becomes easier. The ones who advice the newbie players or the ones that try to make the dungeon a little bit less painful.

If I'm playing as a tank or healer I usually leave if there is a rude player in the party. I rather spend 15 minutes doing something in the house than helping a rude player get gear. If I'm playing as dps I usually play with my friends since I don't want to deal with rude tanks or healers, those are the worst IMO.

ps. OP is completely off the mark and is complaining about non-issues.

ITT: The only people who don't want an MVP system in place are people that think they'll never be voted MVP, so they'd rather nobody can.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

ITT: The only people who don't want an MVP system in place are people that think they'll never be voted MVP, so they'd rather nobody can.

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EXACTLY!!! It is the whole 'everybody gets a Participation Trophy' mentality.