I still think you're low-balling it, son.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenku
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10-20-2013, 07:18 AMMahtari
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10-20-2013, 07:37 AMLaiyenunailed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch
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10-20-2013, 07:52 AMPSxpert2011
For those leveling up a class for the first time(or even those like me with lv.50 jobs), remember to do those class quest to 30. I've got new abilities I haven't used in 1.0 and the quest are fun. I'm doing all my classes to 30 to get an achievement! ^___^
like this if you think it's a good idea! -
10-20-2013, 08:02 AMRekujen
dungeon exp is laughable
until square changes that, no ty. -
10-20-2013, 08:16 AMneverendingxsin
I fate leveled CNJ/WHM from 1-50 and then immediately did AK in all AF gear and healed it flawlessly...
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10-20-2013, 08:29 AMBalthierLoveWhile dungeon exp isn't as good as it can be, it is not laughable at all. Today, I went through Aurum vale twice and got to about 28-305 exp from them, which is amazing considering that I love doing dungeons and it went by pretty quickly. I guess it just depends on how much patience you have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekujen
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10-20-2013, 08:35 AMMStowastiqVahlshdeh
There is also Guildhests which teach you party roles.
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10-20-2013, 09:06 AMAltaneenXIVThis x100.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch
I guarantee that if the OP and any player who has ever played an MMO started at 1 and raced to 50, where the OP does FATES/Dungeons, and the random guy does pure FATES. You'd end up with 2 people who understand their roles by the end, with the only difference being, the OP is level 50, and the other guy is wearing full DL with their myth capped twice.
@OP: Friendly tip: If you meet another player who is doing it wrong, instead of preaching against FATEs and calling the poor guy a burden. Maybe throw out a few pieces advice to help him figure it out what he should be doing. I assure you that will go further than him backpedaling though a few dungeons after being insulted. -
10-20-2013, 09:29 AMLeonasDon't think anyone as a dps class wants to wait 45 minutes in a Que to do 1 dungeon when you can get massive amounts of exp faster off a fate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson-Falcon
DPS attacking stuff before tanks has been happening since the dawn of time, fates aren't the cause, impatience is. Though honestly, BLM pulling is a valid tactic if tank is ready for it since BLM aoe sleeps. You just have to be fast on flash and know its happening. -
10-20-2013, 10:07 AMConstanceEhhhh... Pretty sure that in dungeons, it requires a little more brain than spamming medica and boom rushing any random target.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teroril
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10-20-2013, 10:13 AMGumiho
If you have a low experience being a new class cuz of full fate better take your time improving your character, or you will need to pay titan elo jobs
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10-20-2013, 10:19 AMMooshywooshy
I leveled 1-50 on WAR and PLD in dungeons. It is nice and fun because you get to meet new people and learn to work around all the quirks about other players. If people weren't bad it would be harder for you (as a tank) to get better. If you can tank for horrible players, you can certainly tank for good players.
However on DPS or even healer now it is not a viable way of leveling. Beyond the insane wait time to be partied with a bad tank, there is the dry spot between Brayflox and Stone Vigil that leaves you to level off of Brayflox for ~10 levels. (which ends up being around 4 full runs per level towards the end)
DPS can be bad, Healer can be meh, but if a Tank is bad the party may as well not even begin.
I'd love to level all of my classes in the dungeons, even if it is slower by a large margin, but its just not possible. -
10-20-2013, 10:28 AMjuniglee
While I share your sentiment...
I'd be much more inclined to run dungeons to learn how to play my role as a DPS if it wasn't taking me 1 hour or so to queue for a dungeon like Toto-Rak.
This coming from someone who mains a tank, and is now trying to DF as a DPS. -
10-20-2013, 10:54 AMArkista
As much as it sucks that people aren't learning their jobs correctly because of Fates, People are still going to do them until SE fixes Dungeon EXP there is no incentive even for gear to spam a dungeon vs doing fates. Even if SE fixes Dungeon EXP to be on par with Fates (I wish) there will still be the DF issue with waiting..... But Good Luck on your Quest of stopping people from doing fates and learning how to do anything besides AoE.
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10-20-2013, 03:14 PMMelitheaTo be fair, the only thing AK checks is your lag, and the healer can spend most of it DPS'ing.Quote:
Originally Posted by neverendingxsin
Good players will be good and bad players will be bad, but encouraging bad players to stay bad hurts everyone in the community. -
10-20-2013, 03:37 PMMaxthunder
Running dungeons wont teach them their class/jobs. Reason being instances are controlled there are very few variable. Open world grind partys as well as mobs in the open world that would provide a challenge as well as variable. Fate's teach nothing, dungeons can teach mechanics but they are still not enough. When anyone and everyone can get what ever they want easily: exp, weapons/gear etc there is an issue.
Yes there should be easy things but the easy things should not reward you much of anything, hard content should give the rewards. Any player regardless if your casual or hardcore or whatever should be challenge from level 1 to cap. The issue is there is no challenges to over come because its all easy street. We have player's now that just want to be carried thru the relic fights or the dungeons because they dont want to take the effort in learning what they need to learn to do the content w/o being carried. If content was a lot more challenging we (hopefully) would see better player's but in the end we can all Thank Yoshi for make things so damn easy, instead of making it so player's actually have to learn their class/jobs. -
10-20-2013, 04:12 PMCrimson-Falconyet stillQuote:
Originally Posted by AltaneenXIV
if its his 1st dungeon then its purely not his 1st job
so he should be well known about the dungeons by that time
i dont want to wait 30 mins to queue and in the end i babysit DPS and show them how to play
im not asking to be leet player
just learn your class and its rotation
if you dont want to queue for 45 mins play as healer or tank sry but i dont have time to babysit DPS in high lvl dungeons while you got 6 previous dungeons to make mistakes as you likeQuote:
Originally Posted by Leonas
starting from brayflox difficulty start increasing and require ppl know what they are doing from there -
10-22-2013, 01:12 AMJayCommonWell since we are pointing out what was said, you used the word viable...Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulscare
adjective
1. capable of working successfully; feasible.
"the proposed investment was economically viable"
synonyms: feasible, workable, practicable, practical, usable, possible, realistic, achievable, attainable, realizable; More
Dungeons ARE absolutely viable. If you were looking for a different word to describe what you meant, that isn't my fault. That is exactly why I didn't understand your post, and also why I proceeded to profess that FATE's were a little faster and why. So I didn't explain anything to myself, I explained it to you. This will be the last English lesson I give. -
10-22-2013, 01:16 AMGucci_Charms
The matchmaking for some classes makes it a nuisance to really level up though. With FATEs, you can get a lot more exp without waiting around for your DF matchmaking to be fulfilled lol.
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10-22-2013, 01:47 AMPhogg
People grossly underestimate dungeon exp compared to FATEs. 100k exp per run in the mid 40's, nearly an entire level at 20. Hardly what I would call "laughable". If even one person in your party is new to the dungeon, everyone gets a bonus at the end. I think people just do FATEs because its mindless and requires no more thought then checking a map and following the herd. If you hate waiting for DF, queue up and change to a crafting or gathering job, or do FATEs solo, or do hunting log.
I don't know how people even tolerate FATE grinding, can't imagine a more boring thing to do in this game outside of shard farming. -
10-22-2013, 02:16 AMOrophin
I'm always in a queue (as a dps) for a dungeon while FATE grinding as it gives me the opportunity to practice my skills in a group environment, as well as picking up some loot for my lower level classes. If I were playing a tank or healer, I'd probably do 2-3 runs of each dungeon (except maybe Qarn or AV, because ugh) just for the practice.
I wish dungeons rewarded a bit more xp to offset the wait times for dps, but it sounds like the incentives for running dungeons in 2.1 may help with this. -
10-22-2013, 02:27 AMMalamasala
I can't imagine anything more fun than FATE grinding.
Wouldn't mind a 24 man dungeon or something though, and even less if there was one for level 15,16,17... to the end. I'd do those because I like big group content. As it is now, FATE is the only big group content available until endgame. (Sometimes the enemies do not much the group size though) -
10-22-2013, 02:28 AMValVae
Wait wait wait... he said Brayflox was his first dungeon? I thought Brayflox was opened via the story, and to get to that point in the story you are required to do a few other dungeons...
OP I don't think your BLM was new, I think he was just an idiot/troll -
10-22-2013, 02:31 AMUltimaRoseThis! I cannot tell you how many times Ive seen a tank come into a dungeon and only focus on single targets. Letting any other mob go directly for dps or healer. Using none of their aoe enmity skills. They have the mindset that it is just like a FATE, where everyone kills what they can target and healer just sits back and heals whoever is getting hit! Something really needs to be done about this. It's a bit ridiculous in lvl 30+ dungeons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimikryo
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10-22-2013, 02:36 AMHighguard
Whether you run FATES or do dungeons or quests. If you don't study the class you are playing it won't matter much what format you use to level. People can just as easily get carried in a dungeon. Fates at least require some effort from you.
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10-22-2013, 02:38 AMAideLee
I use derp finder to practice my tanking skills... Stone Vigil and Darkhold. One time, some person told me, I was awesome tank and made my day. Well there was one time that everyone told this newb summoner that he sucked but he blamed it on me for not holding hate... Long story... dungeons are best way to practice some of the endgame mechanics down. Especially the bosses in darkhold is awesome practice for dodging.
I personally don't like FATE although it is fast... Last night one whm that spammed HOLY and I really wanted to kill that person... -
10-22-2013, 02:52 AMCrystalRainbow
My wife and I have 50 WHM and PLD respectively.
When 2.x came out we leved WAR and BRD respectively.
We got them to end game. Went back did all the quests and stuff for out 1.x job but we talked about it and don't want to play few dungeons before playing them in endgame.
Say one around 15 25 35 45 ish just so we know what the hell we are doing on these jobs. -
10-22-2013, 03:44 AMAsriah
This entire thread implies subject of people who never played MMOs before.
Some people have previous experience and can get away with it. Others don't. -
10-22-2013, 03:55 AMNykal
Any player who actually understands the concepts of a character progression based game will tell you that, due to mechanics/abilities being drastically different between early/max level, and newly learned abilities changing mechanics/the way you play every 5-10 levels, very little proper learning is done prior to max level.
Take your black mage friend for example. Black mage plays very differently at level 10 than it does at 50. I'd rather he still be learning/open to learning how to play properly when he gets there than stuck in a level 10-20 playstyle mindset. Too many players have the mindset of "This how I learned to play early on, so it's just how I play." -
10-22-2013, 04:45 AMBlueMageThe problem is a lot of people at 50... dont even know party dynamics. PLDs not knowing what flash or stun are - not even having them on their bar, and WHMs not knowing that maybe they should be healing because endgame isnt just a zerg FATE group where you dont need cure on your bar. I won't even get started on how stupid most fresh 50 DPS seem to be... I see melee who spam the same 1 attack... apparently not knowing what a combo is... cause people can just faceroll to 50 in FATE zergs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nykal
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10-22-2013, 04:50 AMGurrenLagannHe said first dungeon as a black mage.Quote:
Originally Posted by ValVae
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10-22-2013, 04:59 AMNoahlimitsPeople who laze their way to a high level and don't know their class shouldn't be shown sympathy. It's not like someone doing HM Primals the first time and are unaware; that's understandable. These people purposely skipped any and all dungeons to advance through the game at a fast rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivienne
To those that complain about long que times: There is absolutely 0 need to party for fates from level 1-30. Even on one of the most populated servers (ultros) where I was before transfer, only higher level fates were spammed to completion in 1-2 minutes. There's nothing stopping you from queing for a dungeon, then going to fate by yourself.
//rant for tanks who don't know how to mark targets or keep hate at level 50 -
10-22-2013, 05:34 AMRivienneBeing nice is about not being pointlessly rude, and about not getting worked up about something you can't control, and not turning an environment ugly, or contributing to one that already is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noahlimits
You can't control other peoples behaviour, whether they were lazy, or just did things backwards because they didn't know better. You can rant and vent and complain all you want, but it won't make a difference. People will still make the same mistakes in rapid leveling, and most of them won't even see this kind of post.
For primary roles if you followed the crowd and shouts, you might think "this is the way to level up, I will just skip quests until I get to 50" (I have certainly run into people like that. they just did what their friends did). And for secondary roles, a lot of people are convinced that because they found their primary role easy, it would be just as easy to jump into a different role. So they level fast and dive in. Sure most of the time they were wrong but that doesn't mean you should insult them, or yell at them, or give them no leeway at all.
In my own experience usually they will realize very quickly that they are in over their heads, and if they don't, some polite phrasing goes a long way. You suggest for example "you really need to learn <skill>/<skill rotation> before you can run this dungeon. There isn't really enough time to learn as you go, and you don't want to keep wasting time queuing for it. Maybe you should try queing up to <other dungeon> first before you try this one again"
Then you.. Move on. Sure if you don't mind, and they are willing, you can walk them through what you can before you quit but if it isn't worth it because you really can't do anything, just let them know, and leave.
That is all you can do. If they don't listen? Fine. You said your bit and moved on. If they do? You made the game just a little bit better for the next group who runs into that person.
"Don't deserve sympathy" as an answer to "be nice", imo is right up there with saying that they do deserve vitriol. Which is definitely invalid. Nobody deserves to be insulted or ranted at for mistakes. If you can't work with them, tell them why nicely, and leave. Really, that is it.
One of the worst things I have ever come across was queuing in progress into Brayflox, and having the DPS insult a tank so much the tank just quit. Nobody gave advice, nobody tried to train them, nothing. They just heaped constant insults until the person quit. That person never learned from their mistakes, they just learned people in this game are rude and unforgiving, and unwilling to work with new players. Be they new to the game, to the role, or to the dungeon.
So yeah, I still stand by my statement. Be nice, give advice, and move on. It isn't hard, it doesn't hurt you more than what currently happens, and it is much more likely the person improves and does the right thing later. And if they don't, so be it, at the very least you didn't let yourself get worked up about something you can't even control.
Also, there is a great quote for this: "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die." -
11-02-2013, 12:44 AMPaspalum
My bf and I hate, HATE running dungeons. In first 2 dungeons it was fine, but now we are at Tota Rak and I meeting people leveling their 2nd or 3rd class, such jerks that it almost puts u off the game completely. My bf is a tank and this is our first MMO we have played
We are really trying by reading the forum on best way to play, but the in game training is very poor if u just follow the story, and I think we could learn a lot more by running dungeons for practice...we have lately just been getting lots of hateful comments and no help at all, its so stressful whenever we come to a dungeon in the story, @Rivienne I wish all were like you, but I have tried reasoning with people like this and they definitely give you a lowdown of how you DESERVE to be treated like $$$$ because you are useless and stupid...even though i love the game I hate the dungeons, maybe I am too soft but it is very hurtful when all you want is to enjoy the game and do your best but you just get so much abuse... -
11-02-2013, 12:50 AMVanroe
Honestly, after doing each dungeon a couple of times the first time through on my whm, learning another class at 50 isnt that big a deal. You just need to do a little research and a little practice. The one class I wouldnt recommend doing that for, and jumping RIGHT into 50 content is a tank, that one takes a bit more practice.
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11-02-2013, 12:58 AMRivienneYou aren't too soft. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise. I know right where you are coming from, mostly third hand, but it has been dished my way on occasion and it is never easy to brush off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paspalum
I don't know about Lich since I don't have a character on that world, but see if you can find a good linkshell that is new player friendly. There are several out there who don't mind working with new players, teach them their job etc, and just run low level dungeons for fun.
Dungeons are amazingly fun if you have a good group, and horrible if you get a bad group. So start with the world specific forums and see if there is a story/casual friendly LS for Lich,
If you aren't attached to your character/world, and can't find a good linkshell on your server, you might also try re-rolling on a different server. It isn't a huge amount of rework to rush back up to 24, especially if you have other friendly people to work with. From the forums I know there are friendly linkshells over on Midgardsormr, Fairie, Sargantis, and a few others.