[dev1058] Battle Reform Blueprint General Discussion and Feedback

I wish they would get rid of stats altogether and give the same set of stats to everyone, of course this would vary depending on the class you are using.

But the stats should be manipulated only by armor/weapons/jewels.

He didnt say if we would have to level up the new jobs aquired or if its a combination of level and physical level.

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Originally Posted by Jovy

He didnt say if we would have to level up the new jobs aquired or if its a combination of level and physical level.

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You'll most likely have to level them up similar to every Final Fantasy game with a job system. Physical level is pretty much being thrown out.

Some observations and some questions.

Observation 1: Most of these changes appear to be incorporating concepts already in use in FFXI with tweeks. Not a bad thing in and of itself. If you have played for any length of time you have already capped your physical levels <I did 4 Months ago> and are waiting for your Rank to catch up.

Observation 2: Solo play is being relegated to leveling up to unlock jobs. With the current state of the game and its population this will mean that I will be spending less time in game as my current palying time is during the day and there appears to be no groups around for NA players that I have found. Ergo most of my play now is solo. Hopefully the New Company system will address this. Not enough details to be sure though.

Question: You are going to use Rank classes to unlock quests for corresponding jobs. Once unlocked are these jobs at a basic level or will we receive stats in proportions to the Ranks we have acheived. If it is at the formewr I see no need to take any DOW class to 50.

Observation 3: Crafting Ranks were not addressed and did not need to be for those who asked. The current classes can stand alone from DoW.

Observation 4: Though I am in favor of most of the changes listed absolutly no time table was hinted at. When can we expect to start seeing implementation? Do you have a projected completion time? While I understand that all dates would be subject to change an indication of your thimking on this would be beneficial.

YESSSS!!Bring us FF11-2 PLEASE!!!! WHOOOO SO HAPPY!!!!
Was so happy i dug out my authenticator just to post to say SE is finally going the right way!!!
WHOO FF11-2!!!

Well to this day I don't understand physical level. So I won't be missing much when that's gone...

I'm really really excited about everything mentioned, except for the job system. Yeah I understand I'm a minority here, and yes we know little to nothing about it yet, but as of right now It just doesn't sound appealing. To me I feel the current diverse class system is perfect, and needed adjustments, not a system to break it down. But of course I welcome all changes with open arms as many of you will too and look forward to the future of XIV.

By the way, THANK YOU SO MUCH for revising and redoing abilities. I love THM it's a shame all I ever really use is just a few spells and the rest don't get any love.

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Originally Posted by Wrekage

YESSSS!!Bring us FF11-2 PLEASE!!!! WHOOOO SO HAPPY!!!!
Was so happy i dug out my authenticator just to post to say SE is finally going the right way!!!
WHOO FF11-2!!!

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Thats how it looks...

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Originally Posted by RedAffinity

Well to this day I don't understand physical level. So I won't be missing much when that's gone...

I'm really really excited about everything mentioned, except for the job system. Yeah I understand I'm a minority here, and yes we know little to nothing about it yet, but as of right now It just doesn't sound appealing. To me I feel the current diverse class system is perfect, and needed adjustments, not a system to break it down. But of course I welcome all changes with open arms as many of you will too and look forward to the future of XIV.

By the way, THANK YOU SO MUCH for revising and redoing abilities. I love THM it's a shame all I ever really use is just a few spells and the rest don't get any love.

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When you're going from a r50 class to a r1 class you'll miss physical levels. you already had the stats readily avaliable. all they had to do was make stat setups saved to each class. Without physical levels, your new job will have brand-new player stats. but maybe some people want it that way, so it will be back to lfg for those weak encounters and you cant just solo your leves if you cant find a party, since your stats will be a lot lower for your lower rank jobs.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Without physical levels, your new job will have brand-new player stats.

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Akihiko Matsui didn't actually state that's what would happen. He just said that stat gains would be keyed to gaining rank. It is entirely possible that once you gain a stat point you get to keep it no matter what class you change to.

It is possible (i.e. speculation) that ranking up different classes would gain you different stat points. So a player who went straight Gladiator for 50 Ranks gained 100 VIT, 50 STR, and 50 DEX. If that player started to rank up Marauder, they would still get to keep those stat gains from Gladiator.

That would truly be "organic-growth" as originally envisioned by Hiromichi Tanaka.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

Akihiko Matsui didn't actually state that's what would happen. He just said that stat gains would be keyed to gaining rank. It is entirely possible that once you gain a stat point you get to keep it no matter what class you change to.

It is possible (i.e. speculation) that ranking up different classes would gain you different stat points. So a player who went straight Gladiator for 50 Ranks gained 100 VIT, 50 STR, and 50 DEX. If that player started to rank up Marauder, they would still get to keep those stat gains from Gladiator.

That would truly be "organic-growth" as originally envisioned by Hiromichi Tanaka.

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I doubt that would be the case. tho it is possible, it is most likely going to be stats gained by that class for that class as it ranks up, and be non-transferable.

I like the look of what is being planed.
In regards to Adv Jobs. I think once a specific rank in a class will be reached, you go do a quest to get an adv job trate or skill. Which will most likely be locked to the Root class. For example, PLD abilties can only be used as a GLA.
As for physical level. I like the idea that every 5 levels a trate is learnt the you have an option to equip.
Like, Rank 5, 2 trates, first boosts like STR, VIT, DEX and HP by 5%, the other does the magic side.
I know i will get flamed here, but they could throw in racal trates, Ryodin get like "large stature" which imterdated small mobs, The Lafdai can get small bonus. "Evasive", which is an evasion bonus based on the size of the mob fighting. larger the mob, higher the bonus.
This way they can keep your physcal level, and also gain from it trates to help boost you char.

/casts "Barfire" <me>

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Physical levels will be removed.
Jobs are specializations. Not something brand new. What's confusing? IE: become specialized at nuking/healing, DD/tank, or whatever else.
Time frame depends on how quickly testing can be done, and it will be released in pieces that -are- done, like all patches.

It's as clear as it can be without inspiring false hope. Don't just read between lines. Read -the- lines.

(I don't mean to come across as rude, just that there's too much overthinking ;))

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I'm aware jobs are not something 100% new and that wasn't what my issue was. It's that they don't really explain how they will work in terms of a system(not play style or role) IE will they too be Weapon=Job? Or will it be something you toggle on and off when you unlock them. I'm also somewhat worried about redundancies when it comes down to spells and abilities. Most if not all the spells and abilities one would need for functional party play are already in the game. Will those abilities be taken from the classes and added to the jobs(which would be OK except for mages as most everything would go bye bye) Or will they have new spells and abilties or just the same things with added effectiveness. Really alot of that is Valid stuff to want to know and it's stuff they should already have planned out or a rough idea about. Especially if they are telling us about jobs.

I also know that the content will make it's when into the game when it's done but a time line of sorts is helpful. Yoshi P always either gives us a rough date(which is how we know when 1.18 is coming btw) or some kind of outline of what is more important and when we might see what. We didn't get any of that in regards to the combat stuff. Just that some will be out in 1.18 and some won't. When the game is losing players very quickly they need to be more clear on what is happening when so players don't just give up and leave(which I have been seeing first hand left and right as friends are leaving the game rather quickly)

When reading the lines doesn't give enough info(or the info you SHOULD get) you kinda have no choice but to read between them(which btw I didn't do as I was simply asking for answers and not making rash assumptions based on what I read)

I love Prognostication and Speculation so here are my thoughts...

...perhaps the "new jobs" are associated with the Grand Companies and unlocked thru Grand Company Quests...

...perhaps your job choice will also determine the Company you choose, ie. Marksmen only work for Limsa Company...

...perhaps you need the new jobs to do the Company Missions (and will probably want them to beat the Dungeons)...

...perhaps it is all a big new time-sink to keep us busy on R1 jobs while they continue to work.

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Originally Posted by Reika

I doubt that would be the case. tho it is possible, it is most likely going to be stats gained by that class for that class as it ranks up, and be non-transferable.

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So instead of class/subclass it would be class/job. Not very original though it can work(and has many times in other games). As always balance issues.

As long as they don't bring back the mix and match armory system ad inf. We had enough of super easy swap out cheat building for a life time.

Here's what info we have on jobs and my thoughts on what each means.
Quotes are from Matsui's letter except where noted.

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Quests to unlock each job will become available once you have reached a certain rank in the corresponding class.

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This points to jobs being directly related to a class, whether this will mean jobs can only use the weapons of that class or not, well, we will have to wait and see, and job specific gear mentioned below may allow for that.

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Rather than being advanced versions of classes, we would like players to think of jobs as specialized playing styles optimized for partying. While playing as a particular job will render you unable to equip certain actions of other classes, you will be compensated with access to exclusive actions, which can be acquired through quests.

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This one can be pretty confusing, but basically is saying that it will focus on your class instead of a jack of all trades master of none.

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In practice, players will find the existing classes effective when playing solo or in certain party setups. Jobs, however, will shine in party situations where specific skill sets are demanded.

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So jobs are designed for parties, and from this following quote.

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Originally Posted by Letter from the Producer X

Shift to automated character development based on class rank, with optional attribute point allotment

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Class seems to be the core of the leveling system, so jobs would be like equipping an item and not a separate class system. (not saying that you'll have to put on a piece of gear to switch to a job)

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Now, you didn’t hear this from me, but there are also rumors circulating that quests for obtaining job-exclusive equipment are also in the pipes.

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Gear that further focuses on the role of a job. Sounds good for those regularly party or do end game content. (I know, not much of that yet unless you like killing the same 5 NM over and over ha ha.


To summarize
Job rank = class rank
Different weapons = unknown
Job focuses on current class and job abilities
Jobs are for party situations
More gear to collect

Thats the one thing that sucks about getting info about a new system (or multiple in this case): Not getting enough info:p But i guess thats coming soon enough.

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

Thats the one thing that sucks about getting info about a new system (or multiple in this case): Not getting enough info:p But i guess thats coming soon enough.

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Thing with old school companies like SE, they like maximum impact in even the littlest things. Meaning hush hush, and then big glory on cameras.

It'll come but SE is going to work at making you wait...or at least till they can be sure to shake smile and shake hands with pin-up girls.

Wow... where to begin?

Instanced Dungeons
Finally, the nitty gritty, what I tend to enjoy most in MMOs. Running dungeons. I'm glad FFXIV will be taking that step forward and making them instanced. I understand they'll only be available at first to level 30s and 50s. I hope they will add some more lower level dungeons later on.

Physical Level Abolished
Physical levels will be removed. Yes, it was nice to have that extra health when leveling a new class, but I've personally never felt the system made a lot of sense. Maybe I'm just used to job levels like in FFXI.

New Job System
This news is HUGE! Sounds like they will be unlocked through existing classes, but not necessarily meant to be used all the time. I think the example used early on in this thread makes sense (that you will probably want to be a Conjurer while soloing, but switch to White Mage to heal your party in a dungeon). I interpret it to be a situational class specialization.

Continued support of solo play
Essential. I'm glad they're holding true to a promise made back in the Tanaka days.

Fostering skillful party play
See my point below about auto-attack. I'm glad they're also taking a harder look at advanced concepts, such as crowd control and enmity management. The button-mashing seriously needs to make way for something more elegant.

Auto-attack
I know some people oppose this, but after months of spamming my 1 button, I'm ready for some greater battle complexity.

New Notorious Monsters
I loves me some NM hunting. Bring it on!

Equipment/Action Bars Saved For Each Class
In a game that encourages class switching, it goes without saying that this is essential.

Battle Regimen System Rework
I can see why this got pushed to the back burner, since no one is using it, anyway. To be honest, a lot of parties I played with in FFXI didn't bother with skillchains, either. They were pretty complicated to pull off. But when you did, they were spectacular! I really hope they revisit this because a group effort to pull off a massive attack is something that I think is pretty unique to Final Fantasy. And I was looking forward to a simplified system that people would actually use.

It's exciting to know we'll start seeing these changes as early as mid-June!

I have concernes about some of the directions things could be heading.

Threat/hate/aggro meter is a large step toward dumbing down the game and doing the exact opposite of what they mention, when it comes to adding skill and technique to battles.

Secondly, I hope they do not limit the blending of abilities too far with the "job" system. For the most part I felt alot of what was mentioned appears to be heading n a good direction, but the flexability of classes is what has drawn me to the game. I would like to think that the implimentation of a job system would basically mean that we can unlock a specialized subclass or version of specific classes. In those specialized classes they could have abilities retricted to, and only to that specific job. Allowing players to make a choice in ther chosen class to decide what type of specialized spells they will have. I would personally also like to see it limited to one job. As well, to see those specialized abilities transferable. But only allowingany particular player to unlock the skills from one job.

While we're at it, please for the love of all things holy, make the usage of food,potions, and other drinks automatically target yourself. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to use a potion or ether in the middle of battle, and the target remains on the enemy instead of defaulting to being used on yourself.

I know there will be other items you CAN use on enemies, but all food, potions, drinks, medicine, ethers, etc. should just automatically be used on yourself when you choose to activate the item.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

I have concernes about some of the directions things could be heading.

Threat/hate/aggro meter is a large step toward dumbing down the game and doing the exact opposite of what they mention, when it comes to adding skill and technique to battles.

Secondly, I hope they do not limit the blending of abilities too far with the "job" system. For the most part I felt alot of what was mentioned appears to be heading n a good direction, but the flexability of classes is what has drawn me to the game. I would like to think that the implimentation of a job system would basically mean that we can unlock a specialized subclass or version of specific classes. In those specialized classes they could have abilities retricted to, and only to that specific job. Allowing players to make a choice in ther chosen class to decide what type of specialized spells they will have. I would personally also like to see it limited to one job. As well, to see those specialized abilities transferable. But only allowingany particular player to unlock the skills from one job.

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They wont...as long as you dont use a job. You'll still be able to mix and match from classes, but specialized jobs are just that, for specialization.

Personally i welcome some uniqueness. As for now there is no real difference between them. Looks like they are trying thier best to make adjustments but this is a really long beta. Just wish we had some more info trickling in more often or at a more steady pace.