Dark Knight

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Originally Posted by Devils

Help me out with this, I played FFXI since PS2 launch and I NEVER saw a DRK tanking, like ever? When was DRK a viable tank in XI?

Now don't get me wrong, it was an awesome DD. There was nothing like seeing a Kirin burn with a few DRK's with Kraken clubs going to town :)

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Not sure what to tell you. I was MT DRK starting around salvage era. DRK/NIN was the top tank for all HNMs esp before the magic hate nerf. Most DRK tanks had Apoc for the haste and cures but not all. Between high DPS and spell spams nobody could pull hate.

Later on I preferred to tank on SAM but DRK was the best tank for quite a stretch of time.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Not sure what to tell you. I was MT DRK starting around salvage era. DRK/NIN was the top tank for all HNMs esp before the magic hate nerf. Most DRK tanks had Apoc for the haste and cures but not all. Between high DPS and spell spams nobody could pull hate.

Later on I preferred to tank on SAM but DRK was the best tank for quite a stretch of time.

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Guess it was a progression from when I left. Nin/DRK was the main tank for most everything with PLD/NIN coming up fast. I guess the paper-thin defense of the DRK was fine with enough haste and shadows?

When were you tanking on DRK? I left in 05?

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Originally Posted by Bloodclaw

Why do people keep thinking DRK is going to be a tank, when in ever incarnation it has ever taken its a total DD? A melee glass cannon if you will.

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- wears heavy armour
- is a knight
- Why do people think Ninja is going to be DPS when it was a tank in FFXI

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Originally Posted by Devils

Help me out with this, I played FFXI since PS2 launch and I NEVER saw a DRK tanking, like ever? When was DRK a viable tank in XI?

Now don't get me wrong, it was an awesome DD. There was nothing like seeing a Kirin burn with a few DRK's with Kraken clubs going to town :)

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FFXI =/= FFXIV

DRK using a Scythe is silly.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

- wears heavy armour
- is a knight
- Why do people think Ninja is going to be DPS when it was a tank in FFXI

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The thing is that DRK and NIN were not intended to tank.
They were intended with the idea of being DPS, them turning out to be capable of tanking was just a surprise.


FFXI =/= FFXIV

DRK using a Scythe is silly.[/QUOTE]

Well, I would prefer Dark Knight as a tank if not, Samurai as tank. Ninja should have never even been considered a tank but SE screwed up. But that's the past, it'd be wise not to make the same mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

- wears heavy armour
- is a knight

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Also a class that generally has 'kill yourself for more damage' as one of its core gimmicks, which makes me a bit skeptical of it as a tank.

I miss my DRK so much. I'm just playing war, blm and pld to pass the time while I wait for DRK to be released.

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Originally Posted by AmoNox

I miss my DRK so much. I'm just playing war, blm and pld to pass the time while I wait for DRK to be released.

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Same here, except the PLD part.

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Originally Posted by Sylari

Also a class that generally has 'kill yourself for more damage' as one of its core gimmicks, which makes me a bit skeptical of it as a tank.

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Yeah, and also while DRK did wear metal armor, it was never really heavy armor. Just because its called a knight does not mean anything. I mean look at batman, he was called "The Dark Knight" and he wore very flexible armor in the recent films.

Also you need to look at not just 11 but also tactics and every other incarnation of the class. Look at wiki, the DRK is supposed to be an awesome damage dealing class compared to none, usually the most damaging class in the game due to its willingness to hurt itself to kill its appointment. While some goofs as you mentioned are there, I too have to agree the DRK is going to need to be a damage dealer.

Souce: Wiki Dark Knight

playing pld for the mix of melee and magic ...and I like tanking

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Originally Posted by AmoNox

playing pld for the mix of melee and magic ...and I like tanking

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That is cool; I am taking my GLA to 50 with out the job :P

Miss my DRK

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Originally Posted by Bloodclaw

Yeah, and also while DRK did wear metal armor, it was never really heavy armor. Just because its called a knight does not mean anything. I mean look at batman, he was called "The Dark Knight" and he wore very flexible armor in the recent films.

Also you need to look at not just 11 but also tactics and every other incarnation of the class. Look at wiki, the DRK is supposed to be an awesome damage dealing class compared to none, usually the most damaging class in the game due to its willingness to hurt itself to kill its opponant. While some goofs as you mentioned are there, I too have to agree the DRK is going to need to be a damage dealer.

Souce: Wiki Dark Knight

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FTFY

I don't know why I've seen all these "Dark Knight needs to be a tank" comments. Dark Knight does not tank. They use very damaging moves that sacrifice their own health to kill the enemy. Like souleater, a move that takes your defense to add to the damage you're doing. And Last Resort, another move that boosts attack at the expense of your own health. DRK do not Tank or they WILL die. So that being said I can't wait to see what SE does in this fast paced game to give DRK their own identity. I can see Marauder class with all the attack boosting moves. I do not see gladiator at all.

DArk Knight seems to fit the abilities of lancer the best, even the names sound like they could be dark knight oriented, vorpal thrust, life surge, phlebotomize, blood for blood, doom spike, chaos thrust....

Sub Maruader giving Bloodbath, & Mercy Stroke.

2nd cross class BLM for Thunder, Surecast & Swiftcast (especially useful if the 5 job abilites are powerful Dark themed spells)

Either could be required as both are very fitting to Dark Knight theme.

Add in 5 Job abilities and bend that Lance into a Scythe....boom, Dark Knight!

...Nailed it....

While some good points, I would disagree with this. One being that LNC getting two dps jobs would sour the class and wouldn't make it diverse in roles or use.

Also my thoughts on GLD getting DRK as a dps job doesn't bode well with me at all. Come on who wants to see someone dps as sword & board. That doesn't scream competitive dps to me as how would the shield provide you more damage? Just honestly a very dumb thought for a DD.

Also before everyone goes back to this Leon / Cecil use SWORD & SHIELD blah blah. While true they could use other weapons, also in the FFIV remake Cecil best choice was 2h thankyou. Other games to base off X2 / FF11 / FF12 (kinda) / Also a few of the character's in FFXIV could pass as DRK. Look at the story bosses, not only does the armor feel DRK but some of there abilities kinda feel that way. SE seems to be turning away from Sword & Board for DRK, as in lore they don't protect people they hurt them.

(part 2)
Now I think all could agree or understand why a good class for it on all account would be MRD. Lore wise DRK used drains to gain back MP / HP. MRD has abilities that gain back health upon dmg done, very DRK feeling. Also the whole wielding a massive 2h weapon should honestly give off a damage dealing feel. Par that with LNC / THM cross skills and boom.. you got a DRK class in every sense.

Now to quell the GLD crowd that wants to haber two iconic classes into one class. Only way I can see SE allowing DRK as a dps role for GLD would be to allow them to dual wield swords. Now I'm a big dual wield fan myself, so if that is the case I'm gun ho for it. Good facts for this case could be made for the General in Ul'dah. He is rocking two swords, armor looks very DRK feeling and well didn't he have the ability to cast Darkness... hmmmmmmm.

(part 3)
But still in all cases I still think MRD has the best chance to gain the job, just my thoughts on that. Also if both of our tank classes got dps jobs wouldn't really ever be a point in taking other melee dps as they wouldn't fill quite as useful of a role IMO. So in that case MRD is for sure getting a dps job, couldn't see a class that is based on 2h not getting one.

GLD class should honestly get a healer or some kind of support role as a second job.

These are just my thoughts, to each there own I guess. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Dark Knight will almost certainly come from MRD or GLA. The iconic weapons setup for Dark Knight is one-handed sword and shield -- almost every case has this setup (sans optional axes in WotL or the Black Knight of CC, then the lack of shield in X-2, then FF11's scythe or alternate greatsword). Additionally, a Dark Knight has the mechanics needed to beat the tank out of GLA, meaning it's actually a viable DPS job for that truck of a class. However, in terms of actual skillset, MRD is perfect for a Dark Knight. You couldn't make a better set of abilities for a Dark Knight if you started from scratch. Take your pick, but there's really no good reason to make a Dark Knight out of anything else.

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How would flash, rage of halone, and circle of scorn work as base skills for a dark knight? Holy attributed skills belonging to a user of darkness? Blasphemy

Well at least I can PLAY DRK for now a little, when I am not doing anything.

http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws....al/1597824.jpg

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Originally Posted by Devaking55

How would flash, rage of halone, and circle of scorn work as base skills for a dark knight? Holy attributed skills belonging to a user of darkness? Blasphemy

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SCH/SMN proved that two different Jobs can take the same skills from their base class and have them do different things. GLD could certainly be converted into DRK; SE will just have to change some of their skills in that same way.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

SCH/SMN proved that two different Jobs can take the same skills from their base class and have them do different things. GLD could certainly be converted into DRK; SE will just have to change some of their skills in that same way.

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Honestly I am sorry, but I think your fooling yourself. It will be hard pressed to see DRK little alone any non-tank come from that class.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

SCH/SMN proved that two different Jobs can take the same skills from their base class and have them do different things. GLD could certainly be converted into DRK; SE will just have to change some of their skills in that same way.

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you obviously didnt/dont understand.

this doesnt fit any kind of flavor or lore. many of the gladiators signature skills have a holy aesthetic to them.

Flash - Warrior can use it, not holy affiliated
Circle of Scorn - can get a minor animation/skin alteration, change name to reflect DRK
Rage of Halone..

Let me tell you about Halone

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Halone, mover of glaciers and goddess of war, is the guardian deity of Ishgard. She commands the element of Ice and is associated with the first moon of the Eorzean calendar. Halone is the daughter of Rhalgr, and a bitter rival of Nophica. She is most often depicted as a relentless warrioress armed with a bronze greatshield. Her symbol is the three spears.

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That aside, there are 3 ways Dark Knight could go;

- GLA DPS job (more likely)
- LNC tank job (unlikely)
- New class altogether (least likely)

People who say DRK needs to be 2H/scythe weapon users fail to realize what type of Summoner FFXIV's incarnation was pulled from. There is no restriction on what model SE will pull from and I've stated earlier in this thread that Scythe was easily the dumbest weapon choice.

edit: Due to post limit reached..

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Originally Posted by Sylari

I don't see why you're so outright discarding the idea that it could be MRD based. Marauder thematics line up pretty well with DRK thematics. Sure, the weapon is wrong but as you pointed out that's not a dealmaker here.

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Dark Knight using axes is a lot weirder than them using Sword / Shield. Probably just as weird as them using scythes. I would actually prefer Berserker to be Marauder's DPS job since axes and "Berserk" line up far better than Dark Knight would. That being said, I believe most of Dark Knight's blood moves would come straight from the job rather than the class.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Flash - Warrior can use it, not holy affiliated

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Not holy and warriors are a tank job, not DPS, its a cross class skill, not a warrior skill so I am sorry to see your point?

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Circle of Scorn - can get a minor animation/skin alteration, change name to reflect DRK

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They never would change the name depending on the job.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Rage of Halone..

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I fail to see your point with this one?

Are these trolls, or just a bunch of FFIV fans?

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Originally Posted by Bloodclaw

They never would change the name depending on the job.

I fail to see your point with this one?

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Originally Posted by Devaking55

How would flash, rage of halone, and circle of scorn work as base skills for a dark knight? Holy attributed skills belonging to a user of darkness? Blasphemy

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It's not my words.

In fact, not a single gladiator skill has a holy aesthetic to it.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

It's not my words.

In fact, not a single gladiator skill has a holy aesthetic to it.

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You are correct, however I will hold my stance on the fact that shield use was never really their favored proficiency. There were a few simple games here and there where they could use them, but it was never their focus. Too many of the GLA abilities speak to tank, and I just don't see DRKs as tanks. The first DRK in FF-III used primarily two handed weapons.

Yeah i would try Dark Knight as well if they implement Ninja and Red Mage
Wish to have more info from SE

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Originally Posted by Bloodclaw

Honestly I am sorry, but I think your fooling yourself. It will be hard pressed to see DRK little alone any non-tank come from that class.

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Once again, SCH/SMN proves this wrong. Theoretically, any class can branch off to a job outside of the class' role. This has already happened once! Therefore, it is completely possible for a Dark Knight to branch off of Gladiator. In fact, Yoshi-P seems to have this habit of mentioning that Dark Knight could branch off of Gladiator every time he mentions the Job(although he has never confirmed that this is the way it will actually happen).

In the interview linked here is one such example of Yoshi-P doing this: http://www.secrets-eorzea.com/en/new...rets-of-eorzea

Yoshida: I see what you mean. We created the system, but we do not necessarily need to follow it all the time. For example, let’s say that the Dark Knight is the second Gladiator job (attention, it is still not a confirmation), when you get its job stone at level 30, all acquired Gladiator skills will certainly be modified to better fit the image of the Dark Knight.

It was just to give an example to explain that we are not going to destroy how players consider different classes / jobs. It could be an interesting way to introduce future classes / jobs. We will consider your concerns on this issue, rest assured.
This should make things more interesting, don't you think?

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So, this shows that the team is probably at least weighing it as an option. Oh, and they wouldn't be afraid to change nearly all of GLD's skills to accommodate this!

First off, just because Ninja was shoe-horned into a tank by the players in FFXI, does not mean that Ninja was ever meant to be a tank, in FFXI or any other game. It's always meant to be a stealthier DPS class in past FF games.

Second, just because DRK was a straight DD in FFXI, doesn't mean there isn't possibilities for it be play as a tank in FFXIV. In fact, Dark Knight was one of your best tank classes in FFIV.

Third, past FF games will always be conceptual for future FF games. Red Mage has changed drastically over the various FF games. Don't assume classes can't/won't change from game to game.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

- GLA DPS job (more likely)
- LNC tank job (unlikely)
- New class altogether (least likely)

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I don't see why you're so outright discarding the idea that it could be MRD based. Marauder thematics line up pretty well with DRK thematics. Sure, the weapon is wrong but as you pointed out that's not a dealmaker here.

Depends if DRK would b 1-H or 2-H, and whether it would tank or not. I find it most likely it will come off GLD, MRD, or LNC (for dps version). I'd prefer to see it 2-H DPS, w/ damage buffs based on damage taken (with appropriate self-healing skills so as not to make it tough on healers. Basically the idea of balancing damage taken for DPS over and above how much you can handle self healing

im really looking forward to DRK. i wants it yesterday ^^

edit: i hope its dps and comes from GLD

About the weapon being wrong for DRK... in the classic FF sense.. Dark had access to two handed swords and was the precursor to PLD, which also dealt higher two hand sword damage. Now in the FF11 online gaming sense, DRK were best with Scythe and less proficient in two handed swords AND axes. In fact, Sybold's reach from 1.0 was classified as an axe, but the graphic was clearly a scythe by design. It would be interesting if DRK became unlocked by having BLM and WAR at 50, since magic played a significant role in the ff11 DRK with absorb spells. Drk could also cast a number of BLM elemental spells which could be weaved into combinations..

If DRK comes in expansion one... It will be from gladiator and will equip a 2h weapon with the job. Gladiator skills will be reworked to fit DPS. As for cross skills it's up in the air.

I mention DRK once a day in my FC. I'm sure they are tired of it lol

^that blm thing sounds right to me because then if it came from gld the drk would have the mp+ sword skill to fuels it blm spells.

I want DRK as a tank because I dont want dps players to be happy.

I'm hoping and waiting for Dark Knight as well, and also Blue Mage, but Dark Knight was my first main class in FFXI and I loved it.

I hope it comes from a completely new base class that uses Great Swords and turns into Dark Knight at 30 with Lancer being the required level 15 sub class and Marauder being the second sub. They could add Rune Fencer as the second advanced job for the Great Sword wielding base class, but we'll see.

SE mentioned about lacking of healers; so, it wouldn't be a surprise if they are going to roll out a melee healer that uses dark magic and a scythe.