Research a dungeon before you queue up

I'm glad I ran through most of the story in the first two weeks, so I ended up with full groups who had never seen the fights and just threw ourselves at every boss to learn. It was much more fun than having to watch someone else on YouTube first.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino

I'm glad I ran through most of the story in the first two weeks, so I ended up with full groups who had never seen the fights and just threw ourselves at every boss to learn. It was much more fun than having to watch someone else on YouTube first.

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I second this. I don't mind new players at all. At one time, everyone was new, even you OP. I get that you have a busy life and can't waste time being patient for someone else, in which case maybe this game isn't for you, maybe social interaction isn't for you, maybe anything to do with other people in general at any time isn't for you.

Why are people so impatient these days?

They need to get done asap so they can complain there's nothing to do.

How were the guides written in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Sardoni

How were the guides written in the first place?

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by awesome players who did it without guides, of course

players that want everyone to read those guides are NOT awesome players, so everyone can ignore them and go play the game without spoilers if they want to, its ok!

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Originally Posted by FutanXIV

Solution: Make some friends.

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When server transfers hit but that's not part of my issue

as a gamer, i pride myself on learning stuff as i go. i hate resorting thru walkthroughs and much more videos... sure sometimes i ask for any particular notes on a boss but i like to take in the pattern the developers made for myself and not watch someone else's game.. sure it might be way smoother if i watched/studied it before hand but my gamer conscience is telling me thats cheating myself. its like taking the test and knowing the questions before you even start or watching a movie and knowing the ending.

dont you think that'd be quite boring? knowing something before it even happens.. no more sense of surprise.

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Originally Posted by Zenkai

as a gamer, i pride myself on learning stuff as i go. i hate resorting thru walkthroughs and much more videos... sure sometimes i ask for any particular notes on a boss but i like to take in the pattern the developers made for myself and not watch someone else's game.. sure it might be way smoother if i watched/studied it before hand but my gamer conscience is telling me thats cheating myself. its like taking the test and knowing the questions before you even start or watching a movie and knowing the ending.

dont you think that'd be quite boring? knowing something before it even happens.. no more sense of surprise.

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I'm coming from knowing what's coming and performing well at it, some people know what's coming and don't perform well

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Originally Posted by Kyouko

I'm coming from knowing what's coming and performing well at it, some people know what's coming and don't perform well

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And no guide in the world will fix that.

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Originally Posted by Kyouko

I'm coming from knowing what's coming and performing well at it, some people know what's coming and don't perform well

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The trend in this game is simple. If it's your first time on a difficult boss... you will wipe at least once... perhaps twice. Then you learn the pattern and rarely wipe again.

All the guides in the world don't prepare you for how it's going to work for you to overcome your own mistakes and shortcomings.

Had a tank who never knew the bees spawned on demon wall because he'd only ever run it with full relic+1 darklight guildees (he was one run short and I was full relic+1 darklight but the bard was GC weapon and 2 pieces darklight XD). We still beat it, but even though he'd been there multiple times yadda yadda.

I still couldn't tell you "the proper way" to beat the last guy in Wanderer's Palace. I use Titan to tank while the PLD scoops up the adds and tanks those elsewhere lol. Only ran it a handful of times but never done it any other way. Don't really care what a guide has to say, but I'm always open to improvement.

I generally follow the tanks lead and pepper advice for future runs (like you can skip these mobs etc etc). No reason to change the momentum of the run if you're used to things a certain way UNLESS you're wiping.

With AK/Ifirit HM/Garuda HM I have netflix open in the corner of my screen and only half pay attention. I imagine the rest of the content will be that way soon for a lot of people. I focus for what I need to focus on ;)

Studying guides and actually going into the dungeons are 2 different things, sure you know whats coming, but you have no idea how to get the timing down without doing the dungeon blind at least once just to practice said timing. thats how I learned how to dodge each bosses attacks most the time is by getting the timing down.

i can sum up a boss in every dungeon ive run so far, as a Tank in around 7 seconds, with a single line of text.

"Dont stand _____, Watch out for _____, Kill ___ when it spawns, _____ cant be avoided, _____ can be ignored, LB when _____"

Not all of them apply to every boss, But generally, at least half apply. if i see the new message, ill spit that out while running to/waiting for people to reach the boss room.

well thats pretty much the problem of the world... even in real life there are people knowing how to do things but not perform well... my point is that it shouldnt be a mandatory thing to read up on everything and watch youtube fights before jumping in a dungeon which is a huge spoiler.. at some point everyone is a first timer in a dungeon. I expect newbies in Duty Finders much like myself on my first try but if i want to play with the top dogs who i can expect to know the pattern, I'd have to form the party manually by asking FC or other experienced players.

thats my opinion atleast... ive seen other players bullying newbies because its their first try. ive even experienced some of them

Since when game become exam? Memorize the pattern, do preperation before joining, reading "Guide"...where is the try out new stuff, first time experience, solving puzzle, etc ?

Spoilers? No thanks. I only consult a guide if I am unable to progress.

I have the courtesy to tell party members I'm new and that they can tell me any strategy if they want, as that is usually spoilerfree.

You can ragequit from the duty if you don't like that, for all I care.

I think a consideration to variety needs to be made for every piece of battle-related content available in the game. Meaning there is more than just one way to complete dungeons, primals, FATE's, etc. and what's required is acclimatization to the situation rather than a scripted route.

Let's take an example shall we? The second boss of AK for instance (which shall be un-named), the common strategy is to avoid the attacks, be in a safe position and to defeat the adds when they spawn. Yet an alternate strategy, based on the level/skill of your damage dealers, is to avoid the additional spawns and continue to damage the boss for a quick victory. A simplistic adjustment, but a different strategy nevertheless.

I don't doubt the usefulness of guides, but learning is what initiated the writing of the guides themselves. Let people think and flourish man, people will become better for it.

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Originally Posted by HiroSeven

I think a consideration to variety needs to be made for every piece of battle-related content available in the game. Meaning there is more than just one way to complete dungeons, primals, FATE's, etc. and what's required is acclimatization to the situation rather than a scripted route.
Let's take an example shall we? The second boss of AK for instance (which shall be un-named), the common strategy is to avoid the attacks, be in a safe position and to defeat the adds when they spawn. Yet an alternate strategy, based on the level/skill of your damage dealers, is to avoid the additional spawns and continue to damage the boss for a quick victory. A simplistic adjustment, but a different strategy nevertheless.

I don't doubt the usefulness of guides, but learning is what initiated the writing of the guides themselves. Let people think and flourish man, people will become better for it.

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To continue with your post, second boss in Cutters Cry has several usable strategies. As does the final boss in AK, some o fthe WP bosses, hell even Ifrit and Garuda have variances in strategies to employ based on the preferences of your group. Some like to kill all the Razors to keep healer stress down, some will only kill Satin plumes.
Some will use a Mage LB on Ifrits Nails, some prefer the group to focus them down and use the single target LB on Ifrit.

Theres more, so i wont bother to list them, but essentially what you and I are saying is that there are multiple ways to kill a boss.

Completely disagree, when I take new people into a dungeon, I like to tell them nothing. It's part if the fun to learn and die. Why bother playing if you are going to look up how to win the game, you might as well just watch the game on YouTube, saves the monthly fees.

I really hate how now the new players to dungeons refuse to say they are new because of the community.

Yesterday I had to urge someone to tell me if they are new in AK so I could tell them the strategy because they kept avoiding the question. He said he had a lot of fun so I'm glad he told me.

Taking a few seconds/minutes of your time to explain the boss fight won't kill you. Apparently no one is allowed to be a first-timer at dungeons anymore.

The real fun is in finding out how to defeat the boss yourself. Hard to do that in a group environment with impatient strangers admittedly.

I'm gonna try to get some players in my FC to run some dungeons with different setups like 3 DPS and one arch dps/healer and see how it goes :D.

Mystery = Fun,
Knowing it all = Boring.

Never.

Always blind. I'll research a text guide if I can't work something out, and if I fail too much after that I'll consider a video if I'm convinced I'm at fault, but no way in hell will I EVER research a fight before I do it the first time. Boring as hell that is.

I don't mind getting some warnings in chat before we do a fight however.

No.
/10char

Doing homework before going into a dungeon for the first time, is not all that different than loading up a brand new game and playing the whole thing with a strategy guide open.

Yeah neither one of those things are fun, so stop making suggestions OP.

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Originally Posted by Velveteer

Me and 3 others went in completely blind for stone vigil and we beat it, by wiping alot and thinking what we were doing wrong.
Even garuda (story mode of course).
It was actually quite fun.

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My first time doing SM garuda put me in a group with 3 others who had never fought her before. I had a lot of fun and no one seemed to get disheartened, so im sure the same could possible be said for them

My first Praetorium run was with 7 out of 8 people who hadn't done it before, and the other guy only got halfway through on his first run. We wiped several times and only did some ad-hoc research on 1 boss after wiping 3 times. In the end we actually finished the dungeon with about 2 minutes to spare. That was the most fun I've had in a dungeon so far :)

Also, reading up on fights and watching video's doesn't mean you'll actually 'know' the fights. You really need first hand experience, mainly because fights are often not like they are on the video's.

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Originally Posted by Kyouko

When server transfers hit but that's not part of my issue

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It clearly is the issue. You're using the feature that was designed for new players expecting experienced ones. Go with people who are like-minded and that will solve your issue. Whining on a forum about it, telling people they need to play like you, does not.

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Originally Posted by Balaur

Yes, actually. Titan HM. Seriously. Have you seen the rotation?

That said, do you even know what the Satin Plume does in Garuda HM, or are all groups just "kill plume, kill green add, avoid tornados GOGOGOGOGOGO"?

This is one of the reasons fights fail. Because you fail to let people learn what happens when actions A-D aren't taken. Learning to do and when to do, actions A-D require time and effort. And most MMO players these days, and many in this game, are too damn impatient. Like, you got told what the answers were to big problems like long division and never had to figure it out for yourself, or the fact that many math problems can be reversed to show how sound they are. If you never LEARN you can never TEACH, and that's why people who act like you shouldn't be in the lead of any group.

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I was actually confused by your ramblings at first. I thought you were saying to explain in more detail but then you went on about being told the answers. So it seemed contradictory but I just misinterpreted the first part.

Anyways, I actually started questioning this myself maybe a week ago when I was trying to find a new player group for Normal Garuda. Would I want to be told what to do before going in or just dive in? The latter. I felt like it was just a common courtesy to tell people what to do. However, not telling people basically yields the same results as people will just follow what you do. As I mentioned in the part about the normal Titan fight you deleted. The 3 others were all new, didn't watch a video or read a guide but because I wasn't just acting completely newb and would run to where I needed to be and attack the Heart and such, they just followed along. So although I didn't tell them through words what to do, I did through actions. They still have no idea what the Heart does most likely because we never wiped to that move. So if I do a dungeon or anything again, I'm not sure what I'll do. It still just seems polite to put people 'in the know' yet at the same time I could be spoiling their fun. But then it seems to be irrelevant if you tell them or not. I don't know.

However, it doesn't change my point that the OP if they wanted to do speed runs or w/e, they should simply just tell them what to do instead of demanding they go read a guide.