This is why the community/DF is so terrible.

Now while I've never told anyone or even suggested, that someone should skip cut scenes, I do find it very annoying if it's ONE person holding up the entire group. But if your friend is willing to quit playing a game she likes because of what someone said that mean absolutely nothing to her....then she probably should never log on the internet. Or deal with other people...period.

I've personally have never had any problems using DF, I've had loads of groups where we wiped and no one started complaining. I've also had loads of groups where there were 1-3 people holding everyone up by watching cut scenes and no one said anything or locked them out. You guys do know that if you get a rude group you can leave or just ignore them right?

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

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Whilst I do agree that these Level Zergers with gimp gear hoping for server firsts and pure bad attitudes are annoying, you need to explain to your friend that when using DF she is not going to find like-minded people to herself 100% of the time. If she honestly expects all 7 others to wait around for her, is that really fair? It's pretty much the same crappy behaviour as those people using DF and expecting everyone to rush...

If you want people to play the same as you (Watch or not Watch CS) Make your own group and dont complain about others not playing/wanting to do the same as you in a completely random group!

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

I agree - she should have left.

But that doesn't change the fact that DF is virtually useless for players who want to actually enjoy the game. Her case is practically the norm for certain types of content.

Not working as intended, I'd say.

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I have to disagree on both.

1) she should have just basically gone afk. They've said it's not reportable, she would have gotten credit, and they would get to find out if they are as leet as they think they were without a healer. Normally, i say no to afk, but when abuse is dropped on people, they deserve an afk taking a spot.

2) While i've had some bad DF runs, i've had worse in games without them, and have had some great runs here in DF. Ran last story dungeon the other day, and all but two of us were new. Us new ones said at the start to watch cutscenes if they want, and let the new people learn on their own except to help after a wipe (the boss where you have to run in, then right back out), and it was polite and helpful. Been in ones that also wiped on normal primals close to a dozen times, and we ended up beating it, no rages, nothing.

I do agree the worst behavior seems to be coming from those who have gotten more end gear or runs or whatever. When i see someone with a relic or higher, and full DL, i rarely see them behave well. Especially in lower content like 10-20 fates, or starter dungeons.

I was once in a group for Praetorium where everything took a turn for the worse. We got to the first boss and someone accidentally engaged (they didn't intend to pull) and some people who were still in the CS started cursing us out for doing that. This put the people fighting the boss on the defensive, and it turned into just a horrible string of people yelling at each other in party before a few people just decided to leave.

My opinion: if you want to do speed runs, make a premade group of eight people so you don't grief others from DF who just want to enjoy the story. It's funny that this super elitist group didn't have eight people to do the run, huh? =P

I like doing speedruns... but if I join a DF group, I'm not going to rush people who are probably enjoying the story for the first time. I don't understand the logic in that. People can be so selfish. The best part about this game is the storyline... you really want to insult and yell at someone and force them to skip it so you don't waste another one of your precious minutes being a decent human being?

That said... this is the internet. I'm sorry about what happened to your friend, but it is probably for the best that she does try to 'grow a thicker set of skin' when it comes to MMOs. Some people are really nice and others are really cruel because they are hiding behind a computer screen and there are no consequences for their actions. If she encounters a group like this, she needs to learn to either leave or shrug it off. If it's going to hurt her feelings, she shouldn't stand there and take the abuse. :(

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Originally Posted by Hiraki

I personally think that CM/Prae should have two versions. Story mode with only 50 tomes for completion and a Normal mode with no CS, tougher-ish mobs and the full tome payout upon completion that unlocks after Story Mode has been completed.

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I'd personally reverse that, as people new have a harder time with it and it's more a challenge for them, taking longer, while speed runners can do it in a third the time if that. So story would unlock more, but you can't skip cutscenes, even if you did it already, and quicker one would give a third or so tomes.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

If you're looking to relax and enjoy the cutscenes, you should probably go with friends. When you use Duty Finder, you're taking a risk of getting people who don't agree with you.

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No. Flip that.

If you want to zerg rush - do it with your own LS or FC.

DF is there for people who lack organized groups, and people using it should assume everyone else there meet there is there for the first time, and take things slow and casual like.

As a healer though - she has the ability to force them to work at her pace. If she wants to watch cutscenes, they can wipe all they want while she is doing so. As a tank, I use that power every time. I'm watching it, and if you don't like that: have your LS/FC-mates run you.

After seeing all these topics about people's duty finder woes I can't help but wonder why they don't seem to have any plans to fix it. Putting players with different goals in mind into a single party was a really bad idea. That said, I am always upset to see anyone have a bad day over duty finder so I've spent some time thinking of a possible solution. This may be conceited of me to post this but in my opinion they need to...

1) Implement a play style check box in the duty finder options. These can be speed run, casual-friendly, immersion, roleplay, you name it! (by this I don't mean we make our own labels but that SE designates a couple of categories) This groups people with similar interests together so you won't be fighting over whether or not you want to speed run or watch cutscenes etc. If you're unable to successfully duty-find the one of your choice at least you shouldn't complain if you checked the other boxes. Better yet, start your own party on your server.

2) Implement a rate-up system reputation system that gives the option for people to rate up the reputation of other players. If you believe the players in your party have done well and they would be just as pleasant to people in other parties you can give them a thumbs-up on a menu which pops up after the completion of a dungeon upon clicking the exit node. Note this does not give the option to rate players down. Players are assigned best matches depending on how close their reputation points are. Reputation points from the same player can only be obtained once a week and reputation points are only obtained in duty finder runs.

3) Implement a vote-to-quit system in the event the party believes it’s impossible to progress either due to improper setup or player disagreement though the former shouldn’t occur with upcoming item level restrictions. This requires the consensus of a majority of the party and negates the duty finder re-queue penalty. This is in addition to still being able to voluntarily leave the party as an individual where you do suffer the penalty and a reputation decrease.

4) Add more stringent system of determining player contribution to a dungeon run. If you get 100 tomestones per run and someone was with you 80% of the way, give them 80 tomestones. If they were afk the entire run they get 0. The difficulty with this idea is how to determine what is considered contribution. Obviously a person setting their character on follow won't be considered a contributing member so contribution by dungeon segmentation won’t work very well. For this make a boss encounter require the player to be on a system similar to the hate list forcing them to attack/do something that angers the mobs. For this they should split the boss monster's hate system into like maybe 4 segments at 100%, 75%, 50%, and 25%. If the character is actively contributing during at least half these they will get credit (since they might be dead at points but you certainly shouldn't expect a player to be dead over 50% of the time during a boss fight unless they’re seriously not trying). Loot that drops after certain bosses can only be lot upon if the player contributed during the fight. Those who disconnect and don't come back or show very little contribution have their player reputation-ups decreased. Your reputation can go into negatives in which case you'll end up being matched with other negatives and have a poopy party. Newbies should start with positive reputation to ensure they aren't matched with scums of the earth.

5) With respect to 4, trash mobs can be useful to some extent by causing them to be additional contribution evaluators. Using a similar system introduced in point 4 you can make it so that if the contribution points between members reach a predetermined gap the lowest is automatically ousted and replaced. So in the case of a chest farmer who refuses to leave after opening up chests, the remainder of the party can kill a few trash mobs causing the contribution gap to grow and oust the member which also results in the system taking away reputation points from that player. Depending on whether group chest farming is considered okay by the devs, they can implement it so that at least 1 group of trash mobs must be cleared before all chests prior to the first boss can be opened.

To give an example of the reputation point system II think maybe the numbers should be arranged something like this:

Newbie Default Reputation= 50

Player input reputation= +1 per player who thumbs you up

Disconnect/Leave= -4 reputations (to further clarify if the disconnection lasts for 5 min the player is automatically ousted and replaced)

Lack of contribution= -4 reputations per boss

This way at the end of a 4 man dungeon you can get a possible +3 reputations and +7 reputations in an 8 man party.

If you’re in the scenario where you really have to drop out of a party then cut your losses and take -4 rather than hinder the

party and take -4 per boss you fail to contribute to.


Pros: The perks of this system is that it not only does it ensure everyone automatically shares similar goals prior to entering a dungeon; it also groups similar people together by their reputation number. Since we know that within a MMO community there are several different niches it’s possible that by playing solely within these niches you have a higher chance of meeting similar people multiple times. Tired of serious speed-running? Why not check the box for role-play and explore the game from a different perspective? It eventually separates the friendly and the unfriendly players without causing unnecessary animosity since its punishment is doled out by the system rather than a player on player basis. It becomes the player’s own fault if they can’t get into good parties. It gives no incentive for those who afk to try to get away with loot by giving them no rewards and kicks them into the negative pool of players pretty quickly in multi-boss dungeons characteristic of higher difficulty and thus higher reward dungeons. Note that this doesn’t mean that you can’t right yourself if you start out as a horrible human being and go negative. You can party with a higher reputation player and complete the duty finder dungeon as a nice player and have eventually get up-voted back into positive albeit rather slowly. An entertaining twist to this is that in the process of building up their reputation again they will most likely be paired with newbies and be forced to conduct community service.
Cons: It feels overly rigorous and will make troublemaker players who enjoy the havoc they cause very very angry. If the uncooperative player is the healer problems may still persist; the healer may decide to not raise an individual because they’re “a noob” or countless other reasons but if the contention that the majority of the community does not act this way is true then it should only be a short term problem. The others in the party will not rate up the particular healer causing each of his or her consecutive problems to decrease their reputation faster than they can build it. Finally, it’s possible that partially formed parties can still horrendously grief a player. Ex: a group of 5 speed runners queue for immersive/cutscene dungeon then proceeds to speed through the dungeon while the other 3 are still watching their cutscenes and get ousted and have their rep points taken away. In this case I find making this behavior reportable might be a good idea since these instances of griefing would have to be pre-meditated.

Anyways, posting this was probably kind of pointless but I figured I get it off my chest than keep thinking about possible duty finder fixes. I apologize for the long and incredibly useless post.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

As a healer though - she has the ability to force them to work at her pace. As a tank, I use that power every time. I'm watching it, and if you don't like that: have your LS/FC-mates run you.

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Talk about selfish. You do realize the same can be said for people that want to watch the cut scenes right? Since MAJORITY of the people running those dungeons are doing it for tomes.

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Originally Posted by Artamie

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None of your suggestions are needed. What we need is the COMPLETE opposite, less emphasis on the duty finder, less reasons to use it, and more reasons to join a LS, a FC, make friends, or some form of GW2lfg.com thing. 2.1 is adding some same-server board so you can find groups on your server, which is exactly what is needed. Duty finder should be used for finding groups for lowbie dungeons leveling up, and story mode dungeons, it should never be used for end game content.

We shouldn't need 1500 different options to pick from when forming a group, if you want to be picky you should be making your own groups in shout, ls, fc chat, or contracting friends. Automated grouping is not meant to find your perfect match, it's meant for quick grouping for something, which isn't how end game in MMO's work. You need X class, you need X gear, you need people wanting speed run or story, you want people doing X strat, etc etc. Make friends.

Wow and LoL have destroyed most all online community.

my last mmo age of conan had some asshats here and there in chat but man the community as a whole was the best i'd had seen. why? They were trying to retain the 500-600 that still played

And SE should act fast, I've personally seen the damage bad community's can do to games. People will leave in droves after being called bad so many times. you may think it can happen to you but there is always someone in df better than you and a know it all.

SE please remove the filth