And that, with updated gear, the gap between Paladin and Warrior looks like it'll only get wider.Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanlord
As far as fixes go, if they're going to go the route of focusing on the Warrior's damage dealing abilities, it should be done in a fasion so that the warrior is able to use the damage it does to tank. Enmity generation is obviously not a problem for the class at this point, so the major issue remains survivability.
Warriors - How to fix our damage mitigation
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09-19-2013, 04:42 PMKiteless
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09-19-2013, 07:02 PMKitelessThat's entirely unnecessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ondesvin
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09-19-2013, 07:09 PMDeloreanIf you needed Crystal Tower to do Binding Coil of Bahamut, it would have been in the game already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inosaska
Some people waited a week to play this game after it was released. Now you want them to wait a couple more months?
You don't you think they'll be gone by then? -
09-19-2013, 08:33 PMjavid
WAR is just fine. What we lack in mitigation we can make up in critical dmg + retroactive heals+ and 3/2 the HP. if you want a easily survivable WAR. reset your stat's and put all your 30 pts in vit for easily 8k HP after defiance & iL 70 gear. So what you take 5k dmg on a OP Boss weaponskill... you'll still be alive for 3k more worth of hits; which you can Inner Beast & second wind & Convalescence & Mantra & infuriate to get 40% boost on heals. that's
a 770 potency adjustment on Cure III. And that's for at least 15 sec which should be enough time for at least 2 heals (without critical heal.... you guys have to admit that's more than 5k healing bk all done within 10 seconds)
The class is designed to play differently; which gives it pro's and con's to different playing Tank (Paladin). -
09-19-2013, 08:37 PMKiteless
Except Paladin is capable of attaining much higher effective HP and is easier to heal (in some situations, capable of attaining more than twice the durability of WAR). It is much more survivable than any WAR could ever attempt to be under any circumstances.
Also, Inner Beast is not affected by any healing modifiers. Also note that Warrior healing skills do not generate any enmity, which means using those (especially Inner Beast, which aside from Thrill of Battle is our only decent self-heal, and only usable reasonably speaking on a 60 second cooldown) ends up detracting from your enmity generation, which is itself lowered since healers must pay so much more attention towards healing us, only going to invalidate the main strength of the class, extremely high enmity generation, in the first place. -
09-19-2013, 08:55 PMjavid
Inner Beast restores HP (minimium 900HP)... that's why i listed there; just like I listed second Wind (avg 500HP). EHP doesn't matter to tank... it matters to the healer. I admitted that we drink MP; but we live just fine. Our role is not mitigation; Our role is Excessive HP, retroactive HP, & a BUTT load of Dmg to kill the mob faster; which in turns mitigates dmg/time. AND ANYONE WHO TRIES TO SAY
" if the mage was not healing YOU so much they could do DPS and kill faster too!"
.... you suck if you let a healer out DPS you with MP "saved" playing with a Paladin party RATHER then the DPS you'd put out with a WAR party.
(side note: check the numbers again on a 8k HP vs a paladin 5K ... you'd need over 40% mitigation to equate 5k hp= 8k hp [5000/(1-.4)=8000])
Can paladin keep a CONSTANT 40% damage mitigation the WHOLE fight??! I think NOT. -
09-19-2013, 08:59 PMKitelessI'd say it matters plenty to a tank. Getting one-shot sucks. Especially when your primary roll is to not get one-shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by javid
Which PLD's effectively have more of.Quote:
Our role is Excessive HP,
With self-heals that are either on incredibly long cooldowns, are beyond awful, or a lovely combination of both.Quote:
retroactive HP,
Except the damage we do isn't much more than a Paladin, and the ability to do damage as a tank means nothing if you die in two hits anyway.Quote:
& a BUTT load of Dmg to kill the mob faster; which in turns mitigates dmg/time.
Shield oath and block rate alone should be enough to cover 40%. And that's before we get to any of the cooldowns.Quote:
(side note: check the numbers again on a 8k HP vs a paladin 5K ... you'd need over 40% mitigation to equate 5k hp= 8k hp [5000/(1-.4)=8000])
Can paladin keep a CONSTANT 40% damage mitigation the WHOLE fight??! I think NOT.
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09-19-2013, 09:02 PMjavid
Think of it like this....
a PALADIN is like a turtle.. his life is soft but his shell is a TOUGH BONE (SOLID)
a WARRIOR is like a SHARK! His life is STRONG and his teeth even SHARPER--
you won't fight him long.... -
09-19-2013, 09:06 PMKiteless
Except a Warrior's improved damage is negligible (both in terms of purpose; our job is to tank so the real damage dealers can do real damage; and in numerical terms; the damage potential that WAR offers is so small that it might as well not even matter), and it's far less durable than a Paladin to the point of near uselessness.
You won't fight a warrior for long because he'll be killed in one or two hits at high level play. -
09-19-2013, 09:17 PMjavid
one shotted?? which boss you fight hit for more than 5k?? LET ALONE 8K HP vs a warrior??! With enough HP you can't get one shotted....EHP matters with numbers guy.... Just saying EHP doesn't matter until you put numbers into work. Now you suggest a paladin CAN hold out 40% mitigation all fight....well.... unless that paladin has 5001 HP....that's NOT more EHP... 5k HP @ 40%= 8k HP..... WE HAVE 8K HP.... SAME Effective Health Points.
Inner Beast has no cool down. You can get infuriated at the very slowest time possible 40 seconds. I LIED!! If you use NO skills that give you wrath and you just hit hit hit; it will take you 8 HITS to get 5 wrath ... that's 8x2.5 sec= 20 seconds buddy... lets say 30 for kicks.... EACH 30 SEC YOU CAN HEAL YOURSELF FOR AT LEAST 900 hp... that is NOT a long cool down.... not to mention you get a free infuriated every minute...
just on those two steps alone you can heal yourself every 30 seconds & an extra heal every minute