Defiance still lacking in comparison to Shield Oath

Disclaimer: Those damage differences are between a well executed PLD rotation and "just switch to this job for the first time" WAR rotation. Actual gap would easily be larger than that.

Honestly I don't really understand, I can see that WAR might struggle with large trash packs of 4 or more but single target and bosses is far from broken for them.

I would play WAR through Admapor 100% of the time if I could get away from my static for long enough to learn the rotations inside and out. It's easily way better than PLD in that dungeon. Fun fact, I don't even use Shield Oath through half of the Psycheflayer fight, or at all on Doom Wall.

You can't just say WAR has no place in any instance because PLD is better, period. Example, while the mechanics of the Ifrit fight make PLD a better choice, WAR is great for Garuda.

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Originally Posted by baconlaserbeam

Honestly if you playing a tank and even mentioning DPS you have the wrong idea and are playing the wrong class.

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if you think tank dps is irrelevant you have no place commenting in any threads discussing game balance.

The funniest part of this thread is that when I first saw it it was right next to a thread of healers talking about which tank they prefer to heal/work with...when I read that thread most were either on the WAR bandwagon or felt the only difference was the player not PLD vs WAR.

As far as I understood it, WAR is meant to be off tank or AOE tank, and PLD is meant to be the main tank / boss tank.

Has this changed?

Why is it every time someone wants to complain about warrior needing more heals from the healers they compare the damage reductions that paladins have to the ones warriors have and totally ignore all the self heals warriors have? Sure a warrior will take more damage... but they also get 15% more from being healed and can heal themselves a lot... I just hit 50 and I've been able to get several self heals from inner beast that heal me for 2200-2400 with berserk (normally they are 1000-1600). You just need to time them and use them right after you take a big hit... and you have a skill that gives you 5 stacks of wrath instantly so if you really need to you can do it 2 times in 2.5 secs... And if you just make sure you keep up bloodbath every time its off cooldown you can easily offset the difference the pld has in mitigation, it just takes a bit more err i hate to say it... player skill, the potential is there for warrior.

If you get stuck thinking in concrete terms like that, then sure. That mindset won't suit you in every instance or dungeon, but it becomes more relevant in very difficult content.

It's true I love the warrior play style and don't plan to swap unless endgame warrior isn't able to tank then the game will force me off the "tank" class I want and into the one I don't. The warrior definitely needs to be looked at by square. Cause I can use all my abilities to their max and only survive due to the cross class heals of the other casters. I'd think any good healer would be able to heal a well geared tank like my warrior but NOPE.

if you think a warrior is pointless then you dont understand how to play one. a pally is WAY easyer to play. playing a war means you have to understand the fight an figure out when large damage is coming your way and recover from said damage as fast as possible. via inner beast, self heals, potions, what have you. just because they are harder to play doesnt mean they are worthless.

There are alot of reasons to roll war instead of pally. I can pull agro off a pally no problem with a basic rotation. yes a pally MIGHT be able to stay alive longer and i stress MIGHT. but whats the good if they cant hold agro. a war can hold agro on AoE packs better, that goes without saying. but even single target they just out threat a pally simple as that.

The only thing that looks to me on a pally is the stunning. wars stun is pretty sad.

Healer chipping in here.

If the Warrior plays closer to the way Derza mentioned, this is a non-issue for me so far.

Also, damage does come into mitigation, because the shorter time the enemy is alive, the less damage a player takes, which can translate into less MP and TP used.

In my observation, it is the player AND the party that determines how effective the tanking preference is. They are equal in roles, but CANNOT be played with the same mindset. If you compare an ability 1:1, no, Warrior will not look that attractive. The whole of the playstyle must be factored.

I'm not at the FFXIV end game but I've done a whole lot of raiding and end game content.

Shield Oath increases effective HP by 25% and effective healing by the same. Defiance increases effective HP by 25% and effective healing by a scaling amount with a buff without 100% up time by up to 15%. The advantage the Warrior has is less frequent over but it comes solely due to the fact that that heals are less effective.

Unless Paladins get less HP per point of Vit excluding Warrior Defiance. That would change a lot, but I don't have a Paladin.