Fix Ancient Magic Spells

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Originally Posted by cannonball

Hey Grog ol'chap... I have seem to come to somewhat the same conclusion. But I find it's not the amount of time you cast the "fire/fireII/burn/fir..." but the amount of fire dmg deal during the buff.. I havent quite work'd down what % of dmg dealt = AM burst yet.. But I am positive about the way AM is used.. More NM's so I can study it a bit..

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I have 209 int and 145 piety with those stats flare hits for about 140 to 180 with profundity it hits for about 200 to 280. crit btw to. even when casting spells during the tick down of the same element I have only seen damages of a max of 320 with Pro II at the end which still is just not enough to warrant casting an am spell at the time its a 6 second cast that is not guaranted to hit either. I do have 4 pearl rings and the Jade staff... even with these it will get resisted sometimes. so that yet again makes it not worth casting even thou it has a very small chance to miss. Also standing out of combat to mana regen does not sound very good either just so you can spam AM spells. Btw on average with no BR I hit for about 70 to 100 on great buffalo.

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Originally Posted by Grog

An interesting theory a LS member brought up that has worked sometimes but not others, is that when the ancient magic buff is up, any spell of that element you cast will boost the spells damage. So if you cast Flare, then Burn II, Fire, Fire II, cycle, it will actually enhance the damage of the Flare. It's seemed to work on some mobs but not others, so your testing would be great as well.

Also, if you're going to use Profundity or Blood Rite, make sure you use them in the last 10 seconds or so of the buff, and not when casting the initial spell to get the damage boost.

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Burn II lowers fire magic defense, so I would expect Flare to do more damage after that. Try just Fire and Fire II to confirm.

I was fooling around with Tornado at Bloatbelly camp on the Brags. I can't even get the tornadoes to go off when the dang timers say its going to. I think I have 12 seconds left and start to cast choke...and 3 seconds later when I look up the status effect is gone. Then yeah. It only does 280 damage or so on them. Now I can't hit for 750 like our shadowsearers, but I can hit for 430 on a boosted aero II.

Maybe AM is coded so that it's the most supperior DoT if you rotate three of them. But even then I doubt they beat a series of tier II nukes.

The only thing I haven't seen tested on them is a battle regimen. I would love to see how that works...

Correct me if I'm wrong here.... shouldn't you be casting a water based spell after flare for the damage to be increased on the next spell?

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You should know that all stats have a softcap at 184 or so.

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Wrong. The HP/MP gains from VIT/MND cap at 174, but that's all. Stats still grant benefit past that, and there's a number of ways you can test and prove that.

Ancient Magic needs to be more damaging, and the silly delay system needs to be removed. The effect of it should be improved as well.

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Originally Posted by Talwin

You should know that all stats have a softcap at 184 or so. You are wasting point pumping INT up that high.

On topic though, I agree. Seems like the AM spells are very lackluster. I have some testing to do though. If T1, T2, and even elemental DOTs increase the AM dmg when the countdown ends, then I believe we should leave the way it is. However, the description of the spells should be updated.

I'd be really interested to see the damage you are able to do if you do Blood Rite II, AM, T2Dot+Roaming Soul+Dark Seal, Chainspell+T2, T2, T1, T2, T1, and then do BR+Profundity II+T2 just before the countdown goes off. (on Great Buffalo for example)

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Annulment hard cap is 184 soft cap is 174 but there is no attribute cap... otherwise gear would be completely invalid... I have prof but only with mind I have 227 mind and my healing still is going up I am curing for 758 more and more on tanks with the healing trait. You can test if yourself on the attributes page. Now from my testing with int thats different because of fluctuations hopefully more info will be collected but I am guessing when re balance come happens it won't matter... hopefully lol... anyway bring on the AM re workings please.

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Originally Posted by Talwin

You should know that all stats have a softcap at 184 or so. You are wasting point pumping INT up that high.

On topic though, I agree. Seems like the AM spells are very lackluster. I have some testing to do though. If T1, T2, and even elemental DOTs increase the AM dmg when the countdown ends, then I believe we should leave the way it is. However, the description of the spells should be updated.

I'd be really interested to see the damage you are able to do if you do Blood Rite II, AM, T2Dot+Roaming Soul+Dark Seal, Chainspell+T2, T2, T1, T2, T1, and then do BR+Profundity II+T2 just before the countdown goes off. (on Great Buffalo for example)

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Sorry forgot to add its still 1 healing for every 2 mind all the way to 227 for me.

The delay isn't so bad but the fail aspect for me is the lackluster animation, and of course the damage issues. The spell animations are so dull and boring that you think the forces of nature were building up just so you could see a little whisp of air or random spark of electricity?

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Originally Posted by Ranka

I have also tested pretty much on all NM damage output of Profundity II+Blood Rite II+Dark Seal+any AM spell with battle regimen and being on the top setting for greatest output damage and at best it would hit maybe 400-500. Which normal spells like Fire II for me with Profundity would hit for 400 by itself.

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Yeah, that's pretty sad considering that Shadowsear does 600 dmg just by itself.

Note to Sqaure: This means "Buff ancient magic, do not nerf Shadowsear"

Hi All,

Great topic.

Totally agree that Ancient Magic (Flare, Tornado, etc.) needs to be fixed and updated. Like others (adding to this thread so the Developers can see our "votes" for changing this):

1. Currently, Conjurers' Ancient Magic (Flare, Tornado, etc.) is too weak. We do more damage, faster, with basic Spells like Fire, Fire II, etc.

2. Ancient Magic looks horrible (almost non-existent). There are almost no Special Effects on what *should* be the Conjurer's best Magic Spells in the game. Instead, you can't even see any effect happening. It's unfinished.

3. Change the casting mechanic for Ancient Magic: Having to wait 60 seconds for something to go off is pretty sad, and almost unusable except on Notorious Monsters (NM), and even then, they are too weak.


We shouldn't have to second-guess and try to "add / buff up" different things to make Ancient Magic actually work (and it doesn't work with that theory anyways).

Even the way we were given Ancient Magic shows how *little* the old Development Team cared about them:

* They dump ALL Ancient Magic Spells to you at Rank 44. You learn Flare, Freeze, Tornado, Quake, Burst, Flood all at the same time! Huh?!

Ancient Magic should be earned with great fanfare, 1 per Level, with beautiful Special Effects, high Damage, and usability. Not dumped all at once and completely useless as they are now.

Conjurers' spells in general need some tweaks as well, but that's another topic.

Thanks!