More primals than elements?

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I think using the summons, aeons, etc. for Eorzea and the espers for "foreign" primals could be a really fun idea.

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The idea of fighting Zeromus, Exodus, Adrammelech and Chaos (as nods to previous FF bosses even) again as say a "foreign esper" gives me chills. Talk about a fan-services two-fer. They would need to tinker with them a bit and make the main-line series espers look a hint more like Chaos of I, Zeromus of IV and Exodus/Exdeath of V (opinion of course). Alas, I've gone from intended course.

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Originally Posted by Ichi

To add my own thoughts, I would say that it was never implied that a Primal absolutely 'has' to have some elemental alignment. Though I think an alignment of some kind is implied simply by their nature as deities representing aspects of the world.

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If each beastman tribe is able to summon a primal then, Goblins, Dragons (If Bahamut isn't theirs), Tonberries, Qiqirn, Mamool Ja and so on would need their own. Can you imagine a Tonberry primal? It wouldn't seem elemental, it would have to simply be a dark, pyschotic being:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...5igumg6MgjtVbQ

We have 9 explicitly

Ifrit
Leviathan
Titan
Garuda
Ramuh
Shiva
Bahamut
Odin
Behemoth

Additional thoughts:

Othardian Primals: they seem to open up possibilities such as Fenrir, Alaxander, diabolos, and im sure a few more we would all love to see. Behemoth was also included in that video, another possible candidate for Mob type primals, the Beast king. (courels, hyenas, and hippocerfs... no im not gonna make that reference).

Siren is off the charts for me, and I'd be interested to hear more speculation on her for now id guess shes Othardian, But just for laughs I'll picture Qiqirn.

Speaking of laughs... since we already got Good King Moogle Mog, Good King Mog. I wantz Fat Chocobo!

I'd say they'll be more then one primal per element one for diversity and two for more content. Now if were going into speculation for other races and their primals.

Tonberry - Quetzalcoatl / Anima / Scarmiglione
Goblins - Doomtrain (because why the heck not lol) / Golem
Mamolja - Valefore? / Phoenix?

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Originally Posted by RolandDebreton

If each beastman tribe is able to summon a primal then, Goblins, Dragons (If Bahamut isn't theirs), Tonberries, Qiqirn, Mamool Ja and so on would need their own. Can you imagine a Tonberry primal? It wouldn't seem elemental, it would have to simply be a dark, pyschotic being:

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I definitely think each Beast Tribe will be able to summon a primal as we've seen even Good beast tribes (moogles) summon primals. Also the devs have stated that Dragons are beastmen and not 'fiends' which probably implies intelligence to the point of sentience despite their lack of a Broca's area (part of the brain responsible for speech) they could still be highly intelligent.

Furthermore we know there are more primals than the the ones summoned by beastmen... Looks like we have a lot to look forward to... and theyll probably add beastmen... oh man this game is going to be around for a while ><;

Not all Beastmen have to summon a Primal but I think the odds are likely it will happen. The Paragons need Eorzea to be in more dysfunction now that the Warriors of Light are returning. Hydaelyn's champions are back on the scene and they haven't done enough in the past 5 years to ensure the City-State downfalls, which probably coincides with the downfall of the Crystals. The Beastmen have needed to be taught how to summon a Primal by the Paragons, but I wonder how the Moogles learned. Moogles are smart enough and isolated enough that they would have fled the Paragons and know them evil.

I still theorize that Fenrir will show up as Menphina's Hound and be an Elder Primal. The Lambs of Dalamud are still active and are obsessed with the Dalamud image (see the ball they created in Tam-Tara). Clearly Bahamut's emergence hasn't stopped them from their goal and obsession with the Twin Moon. And I don't think that all Primals or Elder Primals need to be associated with an element.

Keep in mind, there are a pair of each of The Twelve associated with the six elements. It's not outlandish to think it could be possible that there's more than one Primal associated with an element.

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

The Paragons need Eorzea to be in more dysfunction now that the Warriors of Light are returning.

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Speaking of Paragons, I'm pretty sure Ascians were referred by the same title by Y'shtola in the LL story I've played through so far.

What is even stranger by this is that apparently the Paragons taught the beast tribes how to summon the Primals, yet in one of the original story quests of 1.0 you saw the Ixal and Amal'jaa head for the hills when they sensed the presence of an Ascian.

Chalk it up to an incomplete storyline maybe? It seems to be the accepted story going forward anyway was that that took place during the 7th Umbral Era and everything prior to the original main storyline (Silvertear Falls, etc.)

Sorry for going off on a tangent.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

snip~
Speaking of Paragons, I'm pretty sure Ascians were referred by the same title by Y'shtola in the LL story I've played through so far.

What is even stranger by this is that apparently the Paragons taught the beast tribes how to summon the Primals, yet in one of the original story quests of 1.0 you saw the Ixal and Amal'jaa head for the hills when they sensed the presence of an Ascian.

Chalk it up to an incomplete storyline maybe? It seems to be the accepted story going forward anyway was that that took place during the 7th Umbral Era and everything prior to the original main storyline (Silvertear Falls, etc.)

Sorry for going off on a tangent.

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All good --- pretty sure us Loremongers felt like SE may have just lumped the Paragons and Ascians together for a matter of convenience. Paragons would look like simply robed-Eorzean Mages, Wood Wailers wear masks after all, so they may have not felt threatened. However a 1.0 Ascian looked like a GrimReaper, that would scare anyone which made it entirely 'different.' Travanchet was referred to as an Ascian or at least in cahoots with them and he looked like an average Elezen, maybe he will return.

Edit: also wished SE would let the Lore forum have unlimited characters, hard to discuss things ;-;

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

Travanchet was referred to as an Ascian or at least in cahoots with them

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Speaking as a Lominsan, Travanchet was undoubtably Ascian. He was shadowless and his theme music matched the music that played when we saw the reaper. Now, we also saw the reaper while sniffing around for information on Paragons, so that makes sense. The thing is, the main scenario in ARR is very similar to the main scenario in 1.0, just stripped and rebuilt. Can we ever expect them to loop all the 1.0 stuff back around in ARR just to close the book on it? Or will we have to rely on Ferne to spend his quieter days at the office in the future tossing us a chapter-closer every now and again? Now that you mention it, I should do us a favor and prevent that from getting out of hand...

Ahh, primal theory. You want mine? Cause it's deep. You've been warned.

Primals are described as being amongst the aether, and when summoned out consume it to maintain a corporeal form. They have thought and emotion, with which they temper others to share a belief in them. Primal manifestations are influenced by faith, which is thought.

Hydaelyn, the lifestream of aether in the planet, has also crystalised into a being with thought. One that can hear, feel, think and influences others to do so. The manifestation of Hydaelyn is in many ways like the manifestation of a primal.

Aether is the source of life and life interacts with aether.

To me, this all implies that aether itself can hear, feel and think. And thus it can develop emotions. This power interacts with the thought of the life it flows through. Thought and belief breeds, creating a manifestation of what people believe the world to be like, including all of its magical characteristics and resident gods.

6 elements would thus exist because the world believes they exist and the aspect of each can be crystalised from it. But that is not all that can be crystallized. If something is believed in strongly enough, anything becomes possible.

(I'm not trying to draw any direct comparisons to the Fayth of FFX here, but I won't object to any indirect ones.)

Time will tell how close I am to the mark.