Relationships of the Twelve

That's one of the questions on my list. I didn't want to put an arrow before I knew the relationship, but surely there must be something - half sisters? Whole sisters? Through which parent? For all we know, Thaliak impregnated a mortal who already had a daughter and then the other one ascended to deity form with her sister's help!

So, no arrows until we know XD

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Originally Posted by Momita

If Llymlaen is daughet of Thaliak and Nophica daughter of Azeyma... and Llymlaen and Nophica are sister... this means there is a relationship between Thaliak and Azeyma true?

If so, u have to change the graphic anony <3


I hate Family Tree... always too complicated for me >.<

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Yup, was just gonna say this. I assumed the same.

I drew the same kind of chart in my personal lore book. :P

Out of the siblings, I also took note of which one is older. In bold are the older siblings. Oschon/Nald'thal is unknown. Plus Nald'thal are twins, so there's that.

Azeyma - Menphina
Llymlaen - Nophica
Byregot - Halone
Oschon - Nald'thal
Althyk - Nymeia

The interesting tying about gods is that they like to bend the rules on birth sometimes. If we assume that male + femal = conception of child, then we can infer that Thaliak and Azeyma were the whole parents of both, because there is no way the siblings could otherwise share a common parent.

But then there are those religions where male gods have been known to give birth and others where conception occurs without a pregnancy and the child simply comes to be.

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Originally Posted by Catapult

The interesting tying about gods is that they like to bend the rules on birth sometimes. If we assume that male + femal = conception of child, then we can infer that Thaliak and Azeyma were the whole parents of both, because there is no way the siblings could otherwise share a common parent.

But then there are those religions where male gods have been known to give birth and others where conception occurs without a pregnancy and the child simply comes to be.

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This. We can't accomodate for a third parent shared between Llymlaen and Nophica without considering:
A.) The third parent is hermaphroditic/unisex
B.) Homosexual procreation is possible among gods, making the gods' genders moot.
C.) There is either a thirteenth god or there is a parentage line missing (another of the twelve getting involved)

It's possible that one of the sisters was born of one parent, and the other was born of both. (e.g. Llymlaen is born of Thaliak, and Nophica is born of Thaliak and Azeyma). It's also possible that both parents birthed their respective children this way (parent:child 1 to 1) and the girls are not sisters in the genetic sense.

This chart shows me something interesting: the umbral god Althyk spawned both astral and umbral children (Azeyma and Menphina), whereas the umbral Rhalgr only spawned astral children (Halone and Byregot). The builder and the fury spawn from the destructive meteor, just as we Eorzeans rebuild and fight back in the wake of Dalamud. I'm probably just overthinking it, as it's far from likely that the loremasters of the original 1.0 were actively foreshadowing the Dalamud storyline when they wrote the gods' backgrounds. Nevertheless, maybe they can use this somewhere in-game.

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Originally Posted by Yrusama

C.) There is either a thirteenth god or there is a parentage line missing (another of the twelve getting involved)

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They've certainly liked to take this spin on things with the Zodiac, like in FFT. I wouldn't see it as an impossibility if they wanted to bring that in at some point.

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Originally Posted by Yrusama

C.) There is either a thirteenth god or there is a parentage line missing (another of the twelve getting involved)

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Fourteenth
Nald'Thal is both one god, and two gods. So the question is if there would be a fourteenth one. Sorry for the cherry-picking, but meh.

Anyways, I wouldn't assume anything about any relationships between the gods unless they were specifically stated. I think we all know how weird and complicated mythology/religion can get when it comes to this. (I'm looking at you, Greece.)

It may or may not be worth noting that no god has two confirmed parents. So their births may be more like Athena's from Zeus or Aphrodite's from Uranus.

Of course it's also possible that one parent is considered more relevant and important to the younger god, and thus only that parent was mentioned, or their other parent was a mortal, or any of the other possibilities already noted by other people in their posts.

Just thought it might possibly mean something that we have no gods with two parents, rather than some with two and some with one.

...Though as Moose pointed out, that'd mean Llymlaen and Nophica aren't sisters in a genetic sense which complicates matters because then any of the familial lines could possibly be "not in the genetic sense"...

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Originally Posted by Yrusama

This chart shows me something interesting: the umbral god Althyk spawned both astral and umbral children (Azeyma and Menphina), whereas the umbral Rhalgr only spawned astral children (Halone and Byregot).

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The way I read into it, I found it interesting that all of the umbrals seemed to be (based on this interpretation of the hierarchy) the oldest, where as the astral were mostly young, with the middle tier showing that life, love, nomadism, destruction, and death are "older" than inquiry and knowledge, which beget abundance and exploration, respectively, which in turn are of the same generation as war and building. Umbral isn't necessarily the evil to astral's good so much as the difficulty to its payoff, or the foundation below to the matters above.

Also, remember that each element is, itself, astral or umbral. Rhalgr (Umbral) and his son (Byregot) are both lightning, and thus both polar astral as pertains to the elemental wheel instead of deities. If you look too deep into it, you get kind of lost. It's easier to just accept what The Five Ages has to say and move on: The polarities exist in all things.

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Originally Posted by Yrusama

I'm probably just overthinking it, as it's far from likely that the loremasters of the original 1.0 were actively foreshadowing the Dalamud storyline when they wrote the gods' backgrounds. Nevertheless, maybe they can use this somewhere in-game.

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This probably would be overthinking at, as legend states that Yoshida-san is the one who asked to bring Dalamud down and disregard its original purpose (which may very well have been to explore it).

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Originally Posted by Xeia

...Though as Moose pointed out, that'd mean Llymlaen and Nophica aren't sisters in a genetic sense which complicates matters because then any of the familial lines could possibly be "not in the genetic sense"...

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Very much this. Statistically, I assume the most likely option is that they're half-sisters, possibly through Azeyma if we're going by the concepts. Inquiry (Azeyma) mixes with Knowledge (Thaliak) to inspire Exploration (Llymlaen), and exploration comes with Abundance (Nophica), which is thus ultimately beget from Inquiry.

Any other options lead us to throwing out the idea of "genetic" relation altogether or Azeyma taking a break from tradition to go full Holy Ghost on the mother of Thaliak's daughter.

Though, I compare my logic to a paintball - splatter everything on the target and analyze the results, finding which parts hit the bulls-eye later on. It's kind of a trade-off; you miss a lot more than you hit overall, but you get a better understanding of the gestalt in the end.

There is another option, slightly wierd of course. Nophica could be Llymlaen's mother as well has her sister by conceiving with her own father.

>_>
<_<

STOP LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT!
Mythology can create some weird and incestual stuff.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Of the Community:
Is it clear, and do you see any obvious mistakes How should it be changed, or how could it be improved? Do you like it?

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Yes there is a big, massive mistake that has perpetuated time and space. It must be fixed or all civilisation is doomed to inferior size! All the twelve should be Lalafell!