[REQUEST] Give Limited Jobs Evolved Forms!

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Originally Posted by Loggos

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I think it could work! It USED to take quite a while to get spells because the chance of learning them was not guaranteed, especially for high end trials and raids. They buffed it during Endwalker to be either guaranteed or very high chance though, so its pretty easy now.


A lot of it is definitely going to be contextual to how many skills we learn per expac going forward, but having the necessary skills be learned from monsters/trials along the msq path could definitely help!

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Originally Posted by Nadda

there's nothing to evolve with Blue Mage or Beastmaster.

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Sure there is! Even if you look at it from the original design perspective of evolved jobs, blue mage can be very daunting for new players in that the rotation and playstyle is not very clear if you choose to take on the harder challenges with it. With so many spells to slot and very few combo action indicators, it can feel overwhelming. This is not to say it needs changes, but it would fit perfectly with the original design philosophy of reducing the button bloat and providing players with a new style of combat.

Again, just as a reminder, this is not a petition to remove what people already love about limited jobs; just a request for another way for people to enjoy it :)

They've said that you can freely swap between reborn mode and evolved mode any time outside of battle, so they'd probably have to add a way to limit the limited jobs from doing that if they were going to make an unlimited evolved mode.

Only if the other 21 jobs get their own exclusive limited content too, not really fair for BLU and BST to get unique stuff all to themselves AND get to do all standard content while regular jobs get only half as much to do overall (and most of that standard stuff only really appeals to midcore and hardcore players anyway).

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Only if the other 21 jobs get their own exclusive limited content too, not really fair for BLU and BST to get unique stuff all to themselves AND get to do all standard content while regular jobs get only half as much to do overall (and most of that standard stuff only really appeals to midcore and hardcore players anyway).

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I dont think its "not fair" when you are free to switch to those jobs all on one character and play that content for yourself, as it is just side content, but I do agree it would be cool to get more limited content for other jobs! I have had the thought myself, and it could be interesting to see in what ways they choose to make other jobs more powerful and what minigames might come with those!

Evolved is the perfect opprotunity to introduce a properly curated set of spells that gives blue mage a very unique identity that is playable in MSQ and roulette and other content. Like one button could just be morphing and do various different sorts of dots. Another could be a morphing button meant for boosting your potencies like with Boost and Off Guard and Moon Flute.

Good thing I checked. I was going to make a thread on this subject. So, I'll just post what I was going to here instead.

Evolved Limited Jobs.
So, this came about while thinking of the 7.5 and 8.0 updates.

Here are the bullet points.

Cap limited jobs at 80 and after finishing the Job quest line you unlock evolved mode.
Evolved mode is a version of the job that can be used normally even at expansion cap.
The jobs will have a set of balanced spells, beasts, ETC picked out for use.
(Remove element damage, effects and change potencies as needed.)
Their weapons (Such as Blue mage canes.) will scale item level and stats with job level. (Like the preorder earrings as an example.)
Addition of LB.
Example: Blue Mage caster LB 3. Countless needles.
Spawns a barrel cactus that rains down needles in a circle AOE.

The following is my justification and can be skipped over. Only typing it for posterity.

With role quests added in SHB all jobs got their final quest at 80.
(New jobs get a mini job quest line. However, they also have an end point.)
Because the Blue Mage's advertised update got axed its clear limited jobs are not that sustainable as a feature. Instead, the time and funds for updating limited job content can be used to update their evolved mode.
(Again, Blue got axed this expansion.)

Last this is a personal take. Also, maybe I am misunderstanding something said about the 7.5 update.

First Blue Mage 70-80 update. I had been looking forward to leveling trusts and Blue Mage together. However, I couldn't run dungeons with the trusts as a Blue mage.
You know the system in the game that is solo with NPCs. I gave up on both trust and limited jobs after that. Only doing the bare minimum needed for Job quest story.

Now this is maybe my misunderstanding but if limited jobs are not going to be able to do tribe quests that is making them so limited now to being almost pointless.
So, with evolved mode it would keep the jobs alive in a big way.
If you want evolved Blue and Beast, you'll need to complete their final job quests having to engage with their limited versions.
That is the ultimate reward finally getting to take Blue Mage and later Beast Master into future MSQ, Quests and Duties.

Final note: I'm aware the system is still being developed and improved on before 8.0.
Still the announcement of Evolved jobs has cut away the apathy enough to hope.
So, this is one road that could be taken for the future of jobs themselves.

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Originally Posted by TKMXIV

Addition of LB.
Example: Blue Mage caster LB 3. Countless needles.
Spawns a barrel cactus that rains down needles in a circle AOE.

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Ooooo I hadnt even thought of the fact they'd need to be given an LB3. I would love something showboaty like PCT's LB3 for blue mage, but I think a lot of the learnable primal spells would also make great LB3 animations if they slowed them down a bit. Hopefully they would let you action glamour between them! The tsukuyomi spell in particular would be such a fun LB3 <3

Agreed, Evolved mode would be the perfect way to have both a version of BLU that is 'overpowered and wacky' as it currently is for those that like it that way, and a way for it to be able to participate in current content.

A long time ago (like, before the SHB additions to BLU) I was able to make a spreadsheet of actions that would function effectively as 'character action skins' of one another. In total, I had it down to 25 'spell categories', unfortunately a little higher than the Evolved mode's target of 16.

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https://i.gyazo.com/c43c12a3b4b38138...1f1ec6f460.png

https://i.gyazo.com/5e7ee7a858305fc3...7dc2c068bd.png

(open in new tab if they're too small to read)
Note, any skill, while having slightly different aesthetics, will do the same damage regardless of it's animation. For example, in the '60s Guaranteed Crit/DH GCD' section, we have Rose of Destruction, Triple Trident, and Matra Magic. While we might see 8 damage splats from Matra Magic, or 3 from Triple Trident, or just one from Rose, the damage values of adding those splats from Matra together would have equalled the splat of Rose, had Rose been the spell that was cast. Functionally, the damage behind the scenes is the same, it's just how that number is presented to the player that changes. Same goes for any other skill compared to it's counterparts in the category.

For gameplay, as I hastily outlined above, it'd be a fairly reactive and engaging gameplay style. You'd use your big damage stuff for your 2mins, pool stuff like the 40s OGCD charges so you can blast in 2min harder, but the gameplay loop of the 'filler' would be where the class keeps you on your toes. All of the singletarget, Circle, Cone, etc skills are equal potency. However, when you cast Martyn's Shortcoming-Seeking Scan (Libra), you get a buff for, let's say 5 spells. This buff grants a potency buff to one of those shapes, chosen at random. Thus, the gameplay is to react to that 'found weakness' and exploit it.

edit: spreadsheet has an error, Garuda and Ifrit would be 30s, one charge. Titan/Shiva/Ravana/Suzaku would be 40s, up to 3 charges

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present-day edit: Any instance of 'Martyn', change it to 'Azuro', since he'd be yelling the names of these actions while performing in the Carnivale while he's in his Azuro persona

Of course, the rotation would need to be edited a bit, or some categories of action removed, due to the removal of the 2min meta

The main concern with making BLU unlimited/able to participate in current content, is the loss of the current BLU and the unique content it provides, but Reborn being a time-capsule of the current BLU means that it's not an issue

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Originally Posted by TKMXIV

Example: Blue Mage caster LB 3. Countless needles.

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Numerous Needles

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Originally Posted by Tabbs

Evolved jobs are the perfect opportunity to have the best of both worlds for limited jobs, allowing them to participate in msq and current content alongside other jobs while keeping their powerful, limited content in tact.

Have their evolved form toggle the spellbook or bestiary off in exchange for a skillset that is balanced for regular play (with possibly cosmetic exceptions, like choice of pet skin or spell skin). Then, let their reborn form retain its overpowered nature that exists as it is now, allowing them to do unique job content like carnivale or crucible.

Limited jobs are great in that they bring a fun form of side content, but i think not allowing them to have evolved forms is a HUGE missed opportunity to unite players who like blue mage or beast master but sit on opposite ends of the limited job topic.

All that said, fanfest was great and I'm looking forward to Evercold ^_^

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I'd really like that too, if we're introducing gameplay toggles like that, why not have a "non-limited" variation ? Even better, make these non-limited unlockable : unlock your limited job as normal, and the game highlight specific skills you'll need to learn. Once you got them all (basically having the full toolkit), enable non-limited mode !

Only real issue would be that you'd need to prop up BLU and BST directly to max lvl cap, which means doing the limited content for said level caps.

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Originally Posted by Tabbs

I dont think its "not fair" when you are free to switch to those jobs all on one character and play that content for yourself, as it is just side content, but I do agree it would be cool to get more limited content for other jobs! I have had the thought myself, and it could be interesting to see in what ways they choose to make other jobs more powerful and what minigames might come with those!

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Not everyone wants to just switch jobs/play all jobs on the same character though, otherwise we wouldn't have the problems we do right now where people feel like they have nothing fun to play or feel like they're being pushed out of their role. (Healers get the worst of it, but now tanks are having their own crisis over the whole "main and off tank" divide that's coming.)

It's always been the trade-off that BLU and BST got their own unique content in exchange for not doing standard content, which feels like a steal because standard content is actually kinda boring compared to what I get to do with BLU (and BST already sounds better than any evolved job so far).

It's also why I never understood this obsession with wanting a standard BLU because it would play identical to every other caster right down to a homogenized kit and rotation. Might as well call it "Beige Mage" at that point. But I'd be willing to accept BLU joining the tasteless gray mass of standard jobs if those same jobs got to have stuff of their own to do, otherwise it just feels like BLU being treated super extra special for no real reason while the other jobs get nothing.