Feedback: New Trust Implementation and Future.

The trust system has caused the loss of a lot of original things in old dungeons, which is sad to see go, just for the AI to be able to do the dungeon. Why not have a trust version and a roulette version?

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Originally Posted by Garruss

The trust system has caused the loss of a lot of original things in old dungeons, which is sad to see go, just for the AI to be able to do the dungeon. Why not have a trust version and a roulette version?

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That's what I would rather see, especially if the Trust versions can be given more unique solo-duty like mechanics to match the fact that you're essentially doing a story-mode version of the dungeon/trial/raid, while the roulette versions can have whatever Savage mechanics that people keep demanding be added to them because they're so "brain dead" otherwise apparently.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Well, if they keep reworking 2 dungeons per patch to work with Trusts, then by 7.5 all the Dungeons will be available for Trusts.

After that, they could always work on improving their AI, since the Squadrons are still actually smarter and stronger than the Trusts.

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And that's a problem because Squadrons are not advancing like the Trust system does with leveling. You're stuck, and frankly spoiled for the mere fact that squadrons actually do AoE mechanics against mobs. This is my only hang up with trusts, they only single target attack. Not looking for non-stop AoEs out of them, but once in a while, it would be nice for them to AoE.

Even being pro-Trust, the AoE thing would probably take away the major advantage to running with players; speed.

Which is why I think they devs keep that quirk in place. It's always way faster to do dungeon content with other players. If it's even only a little faster because the NPCs aren't overgeared, I think even more players would opt for it instead of roulettes.

I assume this is probably why some skills the NPC characters can use in solo instances and cutscenes aren't accessible to them in Trusts, either.

Krile's new Butterfly Motif is disgusting strong, for example, and pulling big would probably be way easier if G'raha could use that overpowered Break to stunlock everything while on BLM or PLD or Vanish in general. But Y'shtola still has access to cure on BLM and Urianger has a Death spell, so it's all over the place with gimmicks.

So it has room to grow but it shouldn't grow too much, either.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

Even being pro-Trust, the AoE thing would probably take away the major advantage to running with players; speed.

Which is why I think they devs keep that quirk in place. It's always way faster to do dungeon content with other players. If it's even only a little faster because the NPCs aren't overgeared, I think even more players would opt for it instead of roulettes.

I assume this is probably why some skills the NPC characters can use in solo instances and cutscenes aren't accessible to them in Trusts, either.

Krile's new Butterfly Motif is disgusting strong, for example, and pulling big would probably be way easier if G'raha could use that overpowered Break to stunlock everything while on BLM or PLD or Vanish in general. But Y'shtola still has access to cure on BLM and Urianger has a Death spell, so it's all over the place with gimmicks.

So it has room to grow but it shouldn't grow too much, either.

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That's why I suggested Trust-specific mechanics for the Trust versions, because at least then the extra time is coming from puzzling out a solution and not because the Trusts won't AoE on trash packs. Like imagine needing to weaken/bind/sleep a mob pack so Urianger can pull off that Death spell because he needs you and the others to stall for time with various CC.

Does it take roughly the same amount of time as if you had watched them all single target everything down? Yes. But at least it made sense/made for an unique run and if you DIDN'T bring Urianger that time, the fight is resolved another way that still makes sense for one of the other NPCs to do instead.

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Originally Posted by ShadowyZero

i am glad we do not have to return all the way to the start of dungeons when death invetibably hits us like a truck (literally lol)
i am grateful for the attempt to make deaths more forgivable as well but i find this newest addition a bit confusing as its supposed to stack up but it doesnt seem to work as ideally as i though it would an deaths still occur to frequent this could be a bug however or just bad latency. but i was hoping it would've been similiar to how the death count was done in the hydaelyn trial or the solo instanced Zenos clash at the very end of Endwalker as that seems to be a much more proficient an ideal way to go about in my humble opinion

as for future implementations i would like it if you could keep adding them to story fights/trials of previous expansions those tend to be difficult for newer players to find groups for if they are not already in an established group etc. you dont have to completely change the fights to suit the npcs i remember how you did the fight with the Varis in Bozja for example an even how you've been doing story fights in more recent patches and quests i think this should continue to be an option.
and next i would like it if you could give a npc comrades a boost in their gains >.> its a very daunting and excessive to run dungeons with them at the set exp they gain especially considering we players out level them quickly an may have a favorite character we want to continue to bring along with us thru other dungeons etc. like i would say a good idea would be to grant the npc's a boost in gains after they've leveled up once in a dungeon so the next go around they earn twice as much exp an can continue along with us into the next dungeon etc after they've done two more clears etc.

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theyre doing every dungeon outside of the msq now so this will be one of the things

personally i despise the death save
i learn by doing and i used to practice on trust
making me like mario doesnt help.

i didnt notice there was a hydalyn save but i certainly noticed on the most recent trial with trust (the death guy i forget which). i stood in almost every aoe ans refused to stack with my mini trust group out of principle and they didn't die. not very helpful when it comes to learning.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

You can visibly notice Krile improving as a fighter the deeper into DT you get, for example, and everyone seems to chatter more..

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have they added more lines? when i did it last every time i go in without trust members who were NOT in the actual DT msq and they dont say a word :/
I took Graha Urianger and Thancred and its just silence.

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Originally Posted by lievaordiea

personally i despise the death save
i learn by doing and i used to practice on trust
making me like mario doesnt help.
i didnt notice there was a hydalyn save but i certainly noticed on the most recent trial with trust (the death guy i forget which). i stood in almost every aoe ans refused to stack with my mini trust group out of principle and they didn't die. not very helpful when it comes to learning.

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i get you, they are good for teaching you how to deal with certain mechanics an its good practice if you're trying to learn a specific role i know alot of people use the npcs to practice their healing or tanking for example or they use it as a gauge to test how strong or good a new playable job is etc.
but more specifically alot of people just really hate restarting the fight from 0 like especially if like a boss was at like 1.0001% for example an undoubtedly the npcs could've just dps'd the remaining hp to end the dungeon etc i've had this happen before... its not a great feeling. kinda adds insult to injury too for the fact that when a npc does in fact die the healer npc will raise them but our character just doesn't get that luxury.
so i feel like this current method is a better alternative because well as you can see from a few posters already they get angry with trusts being too close to actual player skill or even beyond that.
but i would love to hear your thoughts on what you would suggest for an alternative, would you have the developers just make a half way point like they've done in most savages or extremes? or would just give people a once per boss revive status that activates upon one failed mechanic that resulted in a KO?

How do you feel about the suggestion at the top of page 2, that there could be a trust version and a human player version of duties?

Warranted aggression or not, I think most players that dislike the Trust system dislike it not because players that vastly prefer to play solo get to but instead because they have fully removed old content (that often had situations completely unique in all of FFXIV) in order to allow their Trust bots to function.

Not that I think all us posters having any sort of agreement on what we want will influence the game to change course; it would take more money for them to create Trust/Non-trust versions of fights.

But, losing things that we liked and not being able to go back and play something because it's gone forever feels bad. Yes, it's live service and we have little rights as consumers when it comes to owning media at all nowadays, but it just feels so wasteful when they have so many years of content to iterate upon and the min ilvl no echo options right there and still can't be bothered to at least try and preserve anything; I would hope that Square Enix of all companies recognizes the value of nostalgia and replaying their old catalogue given how much they keep drawing from it.

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Originally Posted by lievaordiea

have they added more lines? when i did it last every time i go in without trust members who were NOT in the actual DT msq and they dont say a word :/
I took Graha Urianger and Thancred and its just silence.

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Yeah. That's the kind of thing I noticed missing, but if a character is supposed to be there, they're more talkative and have special reactions. The lack of trust easter eggs in DT has been a disappointment on the piles of complaints of how much TLC Dawntrail just didn't get.

As for Trust specific dungeons, what would actually change? I worry it would be wasted time when the devs could just make Trust AI better and have that apply to everything so dungeons can be more dynamic.