Honest idea for 8.0 rework: Trance gauges

I'm hoping something like this happens with the mention I heard of "reworking the limit break system".
Just seems it might be better to have individual limit breaks rather than/alongside the party one. That way there would be a moments of power later into the match instead of it mostly being from the opner at the start.
The idea of jobs having multiple limit breaks is cool too, instead of one generic one tied to their role.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

We had this... years ago. It was called weaponskills and the TP Gauge. (In FFXI this was literally the idea behind it, and FFXIV 1.0 used a modified version originally.). You had to slowly build up TP until it was full enough to let rip with a weaponskill, which were powerful accordingly compared to regular attacks or autoattacks. It meant though that battle was far far slower than it is now (a major complaint of 1.0 players).

Accordiginly, SE changed it for ARR though that instead of building up your TP slowly to use a weaponskill, you started battle with a full gauge that only slowly replenished, allowing players to spam weaponskills and abilities until they ran out (which, was actually quite rare unless you were stupidly button mashing). Eventually, SE just scrapped TP completely, allowing you to use weaponskills to your heart's content.

Job gauges were sort of kind of meant to be the replacement, so unless SE alters Job gauges to better reflect an old style FFXI weaponskill system, I don't see SE going back to that.

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Well TP iirc was just the melee job's "MP" bar, and when you used your weaponskills like a mage used their spells, you would run out and be left with just your auto attacks which made some jobs less effective as they would burn through their TP too quickly. It made tanking a bit more difficult as you would run out of TP to keep aggro as well.

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Originally Posted by YumieYumiki

What makes this idea any different than "heres another button to press during the 2 minute window"?

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Because since its not tied to the 2 minute burst or buffs due to not scaling from it, as Derio mentioned, its tied to only you and your own iLvl.
But also because it charges based on your own ability to play your job right and effectively.

If you are wearing great gear, doing your rotations well, and playing flawlessly, you would charge the gauge in 4-5 minutes. But if you are wearing mishmash gear, fumbling your rotations and not really playing good, it would be charged in 7-9 minutes.
Its another incentive for players to learn how their jobs work and playing them better by giving them a personal limit break/Trance to use when they choose to or when they need it.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

I get where you're coming from here, but in order to be balanced this would have to effectively be just another 2MM button. Even if it was available outside of the burst window, nobody is going to use it outside of their burst window.

Unless you're saying it's not a button and it just happens when the bar is full, in which case it is just bad design since in the examples you give it appears to change your rotation while active.

Basically what I'm saying is, remove the 2MM.

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Aye, the 2 minute burst window is quite long in between and if you dont pop your buffs and pair them with your party, it can end up being almost useless, especially if you fumble your own skills in your burst window.
But its not bad design as there are always downtimes for each job outside their 2 minute burst window and 1 minute heavy hitters, that would be the time it would be used when it comes to the DPS jobs.
Healers and tanks would be using them at their own leisure in times of needing it at the right moment or using it for some extra breathing room/damage.

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Originally Posted by Derio

I would prefer it be not tied to the 2 minute burst window and it should exclude any party buffs for the damage. Should be a flat damage number that scales with your weapon's ilvl.

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Precisely, its a personal limit break system that is tied to you and you alone.
It will reward you for playing well and you can use it to get some extra damage in or assist the rest of the party in a tight situation~

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Originally Posted by SalamanderIX

I'm hoping something like this happens with the mention I heard of "reworking the limit break system".
Just seems it might be better to have individual limit breaks rather than/alongside the party one. That way there would be a moments of power later into the match instead of it mostly being from the opner at the start.
The idea of jobs having multiple limit breaks is cool too, instead of one generic one tied to their role.

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Yeah, while the party Limit Break is pretty dang cool and key for certain moments, IE WoL and Endsinger needing the tank LB to survive or the rapid spam from Ultima using every jobs LB to pass, personal limit breaks that have their own effect on the battle would make each job have even more to bring to the field and add more uniqueness to each job~

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Originally Posted by Queen-Mog

Because since its not tied to the 2 minute burst or buffs due to not scaling from it, as Derio mentioned, its tied to only you and your own iLvl.
But also because it charges based on your own ability to play your job right and effectively.

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But the meta would likely be "wait for the next 2 min window to use it once its full". Its just a cooldown with extra steps.

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If you are wearing great gear, doing your rotations well, and playing flawlessly, you would charge the gauge in 4-5 minutes. But if you are wearing mishmash gear, fumbling your rotations and not really playing good, it would be charged in 7-9 minutes.
Its another incentive for players to learn how their jobs work and playing them better by giving them a personal limit break/Trance to use when they choose to or when they need it.

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I dont think a lack of incentive is what makes the game boring, its the robotic repetition of a damage rotation that makes it boring. Adding mechanics that punish you for not doing it flawlessly (aka "not emulating a brainless automation well enough") is not going to make the game fun.

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Originally Posted by Queen-Mog

Well TP iirc was just the melee job's "MP" bar, and when you used your weaponskills like a mage used their spells, you would run out and be left with just your auto attacks which made some jobs less effective as they would burn through their TP too quickly. It made tanking a bit more difficult as you would run out of TP to keep aggro as well.

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Kinda, but kinda different. TP was closer to what MP is today ironically. MP used to work a bit differently, with very slow regen but potentially big and variable pools unless you were playing PLD/DRK and physical classes where MP was very low.
TP was more about stamina and your job could be TP positive, neutral or negative (a lot were negative, just some faster than others). A bit like today's MP except today everybody is MP positive.
MP used to be more about management not to run dry of it, with the exceptions of jobs like BLM or DRK. You also had gear and materia options to regen faster or increase the pool, and it also went naturally up in post expansion tiers.

I'm all for a personal limit break/trance type system for every job
Normal lb's are so boring cause if you're not a melee dps or healer you never get to use them much

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Originally Posted by YumieYumiki

But the meta would likely be "wait for the next 2 min window to use it once its full". Its just a cooldown with extra steps.

I dont think a lack of incentive is what makes the game boring, its the robotic repetition of a damage rotation that makes it boring. Adding mechanics that punish you for not doing it flawlessly (aka "not emulating a brainless automation well enough") is not going to make the game fun.

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True, which is why the 2 minute burst window needs to go. Adding in a jobs own "Personal spice" makes them unique.
The problem of the repetition of a damage rotation is how would you fix it? In almost any case, there will still be a damage rotation unless you have just a few damage buttons and healing buttons, but then you start lacking variety and skill to any job.
Its giving extra options during your combos and attacks that could make things more fun, while also giving each job their own unique LB/Trance to bring to a raid to make them more rewarding than others.