So... Dungeon healers is done for?

I think Phoenix Down in combat will be great for the health of the game. Being in a dungeon where a Tank solos a boss from 80% is definitely infuriating. Phoenix Downs don't cost MP either so I imagine a lot of healers will actually be the ones to use them for efficiency. If I can find the time to hardcast a rez I can just as easily use an item with a cast time.

Dungeons are too easy, thats why healers feel useless in them. They simply don't punish you for underutilized tools, so they end up being a green dps. I also would like harder dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

Dungeons are too easy, thats why healers feel useless in them. They simply don't punish you for underutilized tools, so they end up being a green dps. I also would like harder dungeons.

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Technically we have them, they're called Criterion. But they're few and far between.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

Technically we have them, they're called Criterion. But they're few and far between.

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Yes, but when i said harder i didnt mean a 4 person savage level dungeon. I meant make dungeon not be jokes

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Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

Yes, but when i said harder i didnt mean a 4 person savage level dungeon. I meant make dungeon not be jokes

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The problem is, in part, how easy it is to out gear the dungeons. If you go in when barely scraping by the item level requirements they're a lot harder. The first few weeks of an expansion before crafted, tome, and Savage gear come out people are always going, "Whoa, they made dungeons hard this expansion!" Then the gear comes out and we're back to stomping them. This would be like that period last year where Neo Kingdom and EX gear was the best available but many people were still hitting endgame fresh and working their way into that gear.

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Originally Posted by Wyndam

The problem is, in part, how easy it is to out gear the dungeons. If you go in when barely scraping by the item level requirements they're a lot harder. The first few weeks of an expansion before crafted, tome, and Savage gear come out people are always going, "Whoa, they made dungeons hard this expansion!" Then the gear comes out and we're back to stomping them. This would be like that period last year where Neo Kingdom and EX gear was the best available but many people were still hitting endgame fresh and working their way into that gear.

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You could fix that by syncing the dungeons harder

You shouldn’t be able to outscale them as hard as you do

You could sync them harder, yes. That's what they did with the Dead Ends for Endwalker and it helped keep the narrative flow of the dungeon intact. Certain pulls, specifically near the beginning and the end, I was seeing groups wipe even to the end of EW. It took me forever to farm that starbird! I think a tighter sync would be an unsatisfying solution because then you'd get even less opportunity to use the gear you worked so hard to earn. I already feel like I barely get to play at my native item level and I'm item level synced in most content that isn't Savage. I thought Criterion was a great idea that ultimately failed because it was poorly supported with bad rewards. It really needed something more tangible to give it an incentive. Otherwise I'd be supporting that idea where the tuning is just tighter in general. Cloud of Darkness got gear attached to it and hey, people seemed to actually do it.

If we were to nerf the crafted gear down 10 item levels it would lower the performance floor a little when people are playing alt jobs and make things a little harder on average. It would also make EX and normal raid gear more relevant, possibly allowing select pieces of BiS to roll over from the end of one Savage tier to another. We would still have the problem where late in the patch cycle people overpower stuff but I'm okay with that. I think the game needs to let people feel powerful at some point.

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Originally Posted by Wyndam

The problem is, in part, how easy it is to out gear the dungeons. If you go in when barely scraping by the item level requirements they're a lot harder. The first few weeks of an expansion before crafted, tome, and Savage gear come out people are always going, "Whoa, they made dungeons hard this expansion!" Then the gear comes out and we're back to stomping them. This would be like that period last year where Neo Kingdom and EX gear was the best available but many people were still hitting endgame fresh and working their way into that gear.

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I suspect this is a problem that could be solved more generally, but it'd be wildly unpopular. WoW tried this before, "flattening the curve", and while various number squishes were necessary over the years, they've never really stuck to a flatter curve, they went right back.

What I mean by that is: Reduce the relative upgrade from +X itemlevel. (Or alternative reduce the +itemlevel we get from each "tier")

This in turn would significantly curb the power gain from one set of items to the next, as say an upgrade from one savage tier to the next could be +6 itemlevels, not +30 (and likely the extreme one after gives weapons +1 itemlevel from the savage before, not +10, etc etc). But it'd also be wildly unpopular of course because this would mean that there is virtually no perceivable power increase from having this better gear.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

I suspect this is a problem that could be solved more generally, but it'd be wildly unpopular. WoW tried this before, "flattening the curve", and while various number squishes were necessary over the years, they've never really stuck to a flatter curve, they went right back.

What I mean by that is: Reduce the relative upgrade from +X itemlevel. (Or alternative reduce the +itemlevel we get from each "tier")

This in turn would significantly curb the power gain from one set of items to the next, as say an upgrade from one savage tier to the next could be +6 itemlevels, not +30 (and likely the extreme one after gives weapons +1 itemlevel from the savage before, not +10, etc etc). But it'd also be wildly unpopular of course because this would mean that there is virtually no perceivable power increase from having this better gear.

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Yeah, I think you're right. My WoW days are ancient history now so it's hard to think back to it and remember specific examples but I think this would have the same net effect as tighter item level syncing. You get the upgrades in theory and on paper, but not in practice.

Maybe 6 is a bit shallow but I think 30 is too deep. Like right now BIS is 760. In OC gear is 700 and occult special effect at all +2 gives you 600 extra main stat and about 15% more damage on phantom actions (plus 24% from mastery stacks) and with that gear in 700 content you are basically doing the damage a person in 760 does outside of OC

600 main stat is an entire extra piece of left side gear (current chest piece gives you like 540 main stat). So every 2 tiers we are basically gaining an entire extra piece of left side gear. It’s just moving too fast