I MISS THE OLD SUMMONER!

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Originally Posted by Milea

Why do we have Carbuncle?
Why do I need Carbuncle out to summon Bahamut? To do certain skills?

We are an even worse pet job now cause the pet doesn't attack but is still required.

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In the old games, Carbuncle was a summon in its own right. Its abilities were mostly defensive, so things like Ruby Light that gave the party Reflect, as well as teaching things like Protect and Shell. We have a cute little nod to that in XIV with things like Aegis.

But in XIV, as I understand it, Carbuncle isn’t really its own being: it’s a magical construct formed by our aether, kind of like a familiar or a focus for our energies, which is why Carby disappears when we summon an egi: our aether is shifting to that form and calling upon that energy and the residual energies of primals we’ve been exposed to when we defeat them when we summon. So neither Carby or the primal egis are really pets, but more like magical thought forms we create. So in a way it makes sense that it’s just sitting there waiting for us to cast our next summon, even if it seems odd to how it worked before. I do feel like it could use an auto attack though when it’s not busy turning into our summons! lol

I want carby to do something not just stand there because well all the carby skill could be use by the smn instead making him well useless

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

I want carby to do something not just stand there because well all the carby skill could be use by the smn instead making him well useless

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Agreed! - This is my biggest gripe with the current Summoner...The Carbuncles/Egi need to do something! Even if it's just something simple like an auto attack. But ideally something more substantial, that is key to the jobs core rotation! - I hate seeing our OG pets being slowly stripped of everything...To the point that they are now essentially just glorified minions...

This is a problem that is very blatant in the earlier levels of Summoner (1 - 50+) where we don't have access to Demi's or Gemshines - Without these core job components and the Egi just sitting there, over half of the jobs leveling journey is super jank, broken and boring because it has almost nothing till the later levels!...

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Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

Agreed! - This is my biggest gripe with the current Summoner...The Carbuncles/Egi need to do something! Even if it's just something simple like an auto attack. But ideally something more substantial, that is key to the jobs core rotation! - I hate seeing our OG pets being slowly stripped of everything...To the point that they are now essentially just glorified minions...

This is a problem that is very blatant in the earlier levels of Summoner (1 - 50+) where we don't have access to Demi's or Gemshines - Without these core job components and the Egi just sitting there, over half of the jobs leveling journey is super jank, broken and boring because it has almost nothing till the later levels!...

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I think all smn should act like baha stay for 15 second while attack turning tri disaster into volcano/vortex/tremor depending on with one you use ruin should turn into blaze/stream/rock smash. inferno and all those take the inkledle place the other move could be change for hurricane a weak aoe with a dots that old for 15 second ifrit could be a eruption doing like 500 potency and 25% less to all other target. titan could make a 300 potency shield to everyone with a dots AOE on the ground like doton? not sure if it is doton.


carby could do a slap for 100 potency one move he have is a reflect for 5 second for half the damage people would have taken and well the DPS buff.

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Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

Agreed! - This is my biggest gripe with the current Summoner...The Carbuncles/Egi need to do something! Even if it's just something simple like an auto attack. But ideally something more substantial, that is key to the jobs core rotation! - I hate seeing our OG pets being slowly stripped of everything...To the point that they are now essentially just glorified minions...

This is a problem that is very blatant in the earlier levels of Summoner (1 - 50+) where we don't have access to Demi's or Gemshines - Without these core job components and the Egi just sitting there, over half of the jobs leveling journey is super jank, broken and boring because it has almost nothing till the later levels!...

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Honestly having big summon and egi aren't things that should be mutually exclusive. Carby goes away and big summon goes out. Wish Ifrit egi still existed and just temporarily became big Ifrit for example. But seems their intention was to remove the pet mechanics.

Yes, it's a known constant that as MMORPGs age they either neuter or flat-out remove their pet mechanics. I guess it's something to do with the nature of mass-player network code vs fight design for MMORPGs or something.

Look how quickly WoW factually made pets immune to boss mechanics, which in turn made them nothing more than pretty graphics for what is essentially a DoT (which is btw what an egi would be, too, the way we had them before the rework). Then there's cases such as Summoner and Scholar here, or Necromancer in DAoC, where they just removed the pet mechanic entirely instead of even keeping it around as a DoT-with-external-model. But it always happens. As MMOs get older, they neuter their pets. No clue why.

What if it were necromancy back? Brought back from its digital grave and just redressed as a "new" job? The version I think it would be best to bring back is the stormblood version. Where it was both dots but also pets had health bars. As its the most different compared to later iterations. Maybe even call it Necromancer. Make ordering the pets as off the global cooldown so that it plays nicely with the dot side. Also would be easy to give a place of origin to such a job, Mhach.

Going over the various things that necromancer could summon:

Garuda-Egi would be Rajiformes (think first boss of Dun Scaith but small)
Ifrit-Egi would be Flaremancer
Titan-Egi could be Skeleton

And Demi-Bahamut could be Zombie Dragon (Actually would be pretty fitting as the FF5 Zombie Dragon as its dot-centric)

I mean, I’m pretty sure they removed pets because of the constant complaining from players. OG Egis were up there with Flash as some of the most despised and complained about abilities in the game lol.

They ghosted, they took to long to do anything, they were (are) ugly as hell, people bitched about having to manage their HP and positioning, having to cast them on resummoning (‘make it instant!’), having separate gcds depending on expansion, having shared gcds with the player lol, never/rarely any reason to switch between them, Titan-Egi was either entirely useless or you were doing Ramuh Ex in like 2.3 or whenever it was lol. Etc etc.

Just feels a bit weird for people to lament the loss of something that was universally called to be removed. Hell look at how many Scholars still complain about fairy ghosting lol; they were never going to get any better.

The thing is SCH only ghosts when the status of the fairy changes which basically amounts to only when they dissipate it or summon seraph; and summon seraph is entirely a self inflicted problem as “summon seraph” could just be a pseudo button to make eos able to cast consolation rather than summoning a different entity

SMN with the same responsiveness in its pets would still be playable because you know where its failure points would be. Ironically SMN was at its worst when it was trying to hide problems behind demis which is just recreating the seraph issue

I don't agree with the sentiments here that Summoner wasn't a pet class before;

Summons of FF10, 11, 12, 13, (until recently) 14, arguably 15 (the oddest "Summon" mechanics in the series), and FF7 Remake all had elements of pets or were outright pets (temporary party members that could be ordered to attack or continuously does so automatically rather than being a glorified long-animation Spell like in prior games). That is about 2 straight decades of FF Summons being pets.

And if you want to argue that FF14 should be following the FF3-9 Summoning model, then I would also welcome that... But where is our nuclear damage and drawn out cast times? Both should rival or be higher than Black Mage's in that case. Red Mage and even Pictomancer (in their few appearances) were much more utility focused than Summons.

Current Summoner only really resembles FF16 gameplay. And that game came out after they had already butchered this job.

PS: Summoning Carbuncle just for it to stare at me the entire fight just screams "unfinished" and "jank" to me. I can think of no feasible way anyone can defend that at least thematically and aesthetically.