On Forked Tower Changes

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Originally Posted by TeresaFortell

What I am witnessing now is that many premade parties are primarily reclear parties, which typically already have predefined rosters in place. This is expected, as the content has been released for over a month. However, since reclear parties are the majority of these premades, there are few prog groups available to those who would want to try this content, even via third-party tools. This creates another barrier to accessing this content, which I believe contradicts the very essence of what SE intended to do. I still think this content should be open to everyone who wants to try it. Therefore, it is rather disheartening to see that it is reverting to a niche so quickly.

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Unfortunately, that's a pipe dream. It's doubtful they're going to make anymore changes than they have done so far and what is outlined for 7.3. Those changes put out the immediate fire so people get off SE's behind. They've never made BA anymore accessible so it's also remained something that isn't open to anyone who wants to try it.

They should have learned their lesson from Chaotic. People "got theirs" and stopped running it so all you might see now is the occasional reclear PF. The only way to keep these things from becoming niche is making them accessible and puggable. That's why even if the Bozja zones aren't heavily populated like they used to be, you still see plenty of interest in CLL and Dalriada. DR is a mixed bag because it's queued outside. But people in Bozja zones are very interested in joining the instance CEs when they pop up. With things like honors and overpowered lost actions, the veterans can very easily carry new people.

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Originally Posted by TeresaFortell

What I am witnessing now is that many premade parties are primarily reclear parties, which typically already have predefined rosters in place. This is expected, as the content has been released for over a month. However, since reclear parties are the majority of these premades, there are few prog groups available to those who would want to try this content, even via third-party tools. This creates another barrier to accessing this content, which I believe contradicts the very essence of what SE intended to do. I still think this content should be open to everyone who wants to try it. Therefore, it is rather disheartening to see that it is reverting to a niche so quickly.

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A lot of this is due to the stupid 100 clears achievement, which for achievement minded people (a lot of raiders) gives them a big incentive to only play with clear ready groups to ramp up their clear numbers. I can't say for sure how many people would have instead gone back to help prog parties if the achievement didn't exist, but it's definitely a nonzero number.

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Originally Posted by Router

A lot of this is due to the stupid 100 clears achievement, which for achievement minded people (a lot of raiders) gives them a big incentive to only play with clear ready groups to ramp up their clear numbers. I can't say for sure how many people would have instead gone back to help prog parties if the achievement didn't exist, but it's definitely a nonzero number.

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You can 100% see this on ABBA who’s entire bot queue system is built upon people queuing to their respective prog point and then people pull from the queue as needed which works for BA and DRS

Now 90% of the listings for forked are like “THIS IS A RECLEAR SPAM RUN NO EXTRA SANGUINITE COLLECTED IF YOU MAKE A MISTAKE ILL COME TO YOUR HOUSE AND KILL YOU WE WONT BE PULLING FROM QUEUE ITS A SIGN UP WHERE I PRIORITISE YOU BASED ON PARSES”

like way to miss the entire point of how ABBA is designed and make forked seem way more daunting than it is leaving only like 1/20 runs being fresh prog/dead stars prog

tempted to level this character just so I can make my own FT runs with blackjack and hookers

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Unfortunately, that's a pipe dream. It's doubtful they're going to make anymore changes than they have done so far and what is outlined for 7.3. Those changes put out the immediate fire so people get off SE's behind. They've never made BA anymore accessible so it's also remained something that isn't open to anyone who wants to try it.

They should have learned their lesson from Chaotic. People "got theirs" and stopped running it so all you might see now is the occasional reclear PF. The only way to keep these things from becoming niche is making them accessible and puggable. That's why even if the Bozja zones aren't heavily populated like they used to be, you still see plenty of interest in CLL and Dalriada. DR is a mixed bag because it's queued outside. But people in Bozja zones are very interested in joining the instance CEs when they pop up. With things like honors and overpowered lost actions, the veterans can very easily carry new people.

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Seeing how they could put an emergency change in place this quickly to counteract the negativity surrounding it, I assume that if people complain loudly enough, then more positive changes would follow, as the current system still caters to no one. It still requires entering enough ciphers to enter FT, and people not in premades can still enter if they add a cipher and more to the entry system.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You can 100% see this on ABBA who’s entire bot queue system is built upon people queuing to their respective prog point and then people pull from the queue as needed which works for BA and DRS

Now 90% of the listings for forked are like “THIS IS A RECLEAR SPAM RUN NO EXTRA SANGUINITE COLLECTED IF YOU MAKE A MISTAKE ILL COME TO YOUR HOUSE AND KILL YOU WE WONT BE PULLING FROM QUEUE ITS A SIGN UP WHERE I PRIORITISE YOU BASED ON PARSES”

like way to miss the entire point of how ABBA is designed and make forked seem way more daunting than it is leaving only like 1/20 runs being fresh prog/dead stars prog

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The only way to fix this is to fundamentally change the entry system entirely, which they are working on and improving, so that it would not be so daunting even to enter the tower. However, at the same time, they would have to tone down the overall difficulty, because it is still too challenging to do it without coordination at the moment.

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Originally Posted by TeresaFortell

The only way to fix this is to fundamentally change the entry system entirely, which they are working on and improving, so that it would not be so daunting even to enter the tower. However, at the same time, they would have to tone down the overall difficulty, because it is still too challenging to do it without coordination at the moment.

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That wouldn’t change anything because the problem is the majority of people who have cleared forked and still run it want the 100 clear title so they have proverbial internal justification to lock runs to other “consistent clearers”

BA works better here because there is no incentive to clear more than once

Ironically removing that 100 clear achievement would make it be cleared way less often but pugged by more people

Like ABBA is regularly getting complaints right now by people going “I want to prog forked but I’m not sure how I can when there is 1 prog run per week and 130 reclear only runs” and those endless reclear runs are being driven by the 100 clears system

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TeresaFortell

Seeing how they could put an emergency change in place this quickly to counteract the negativity surrounding it, I assume that if people complain loudly enough, then more positive changes would follow, as the current system still caters to no one. It still requires entering enough ciphers to enter FT, and people not in premades can still enter if they add a cipher and more to the entry system.

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Unfortunately the raging fire has been put out. This is only screwing over a smaller section of players now, so the complaints aren't going to be loud enough anymore. All we can do at this point is speak with our activity and avoid the content so we don't add to their clear numbers.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Unfortunately the raging fire has been put out. This is only screwing over a smaller section of players now, so the complaints aren't going to be loud enough anymore. All we can do at this point is speak with our activity and avoid the content so we don't add to their clear numbers.

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I think this is also affecting the larger playerbase who do not even want to partake in FTB. The main reason is that if one ignores FTB, there is no significant alternative incentive for any player to engage in OC. For example, say that you have completely maxed out all currently available phantom jobs, received your phantom weapons, and that you have also collected the notes, aside from those from FTB, if you do not want to do FTB at all, your only option for partaking in OC would be to loot treasure coffers. However, the loot in these coffers mainly consists of materials or items from previous field operations, which have effectively also destroyed their value on the market board. Thus, it is not enticing enough for you to loot these coffers other than wanting to upgrade your phantom armours.

All of the activities one undertakes in OC seem to point in the direction of doing FTB and discourage any alternatives.