Dawntrail's dungeon design has been questionable.

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Originally Posted by TheInsomniac13

The last few weeks I read a lot of Forum posts and it feels that a majorety of players do not like the direction this game is heading.
I had a post myself wanting to disgus how mob pulls and bosses in general could be inproved but to be realistic. Doing so would need the devs to rework to much of the game and they would never do that.
Meanwhile Job design gets more and more boring to the point were it all feels like 1 homogen mush to play pick you colore.
A friend of mine sayed FF 14 is a good visual novel interupted with average to bad time waster. The emphasis most players seem to have is Stormblood peaked in design while others say it was good but they prefear Heavensward or even ARR. It was rather clear in these posts that the majorety who got to expirience the design of past content are not satesfied with current design choices at all.

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I think the main problem I have with dungeons is how many times Square Enix falls back on the same tired formula of avoid stuff on floor, get out of orange box or some arbitrary mechanic that insta-kills you if you miss something for a variety of reasons. The game hardly warns you and insta-kill one-shot mechanics are so overused it makes all the dungeons feel cheap and a slog to get through, even when you've out-levelled them. This wouldn't be an issue if you only had to do them once but there are so many times, just speaking from my perspective where I log in and I don't want to progress into endgame because of how stressful constantly dodging one-shots are.

i think the problem with dungeons is that they aren't really dungeons, they are a linear path with the formula <trash> <boss><trash><boss>

I don't like to compare ff to Wow overly much, because it always descends into which is better, but with dungeons, I like how Wow does them, they are enormous and often have multiple routes. Some have dungeon-centric quests, some have gathering points. But the central thing is you can choose. They are varied beyond just the aesthetic or art style.

FFXIV's are a long corridor and I think CBU3 Mistakes people moaning about dungeons like old toto rak, Aurum vale, as never do it again. Rather than were gonna moan, but they aren't that bad.

The second issue is that the job design isn't great and syncing is an abhorrent experience. No one wants to play earlier versions because the max level jobs are bare bones as it is.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

Thank you for your comment. Its a real shame because I really wanted to love this expansion, the music this expansion in my opinion has been better then Endwalker (I was getting tired of constant grunge-rock and other types of rock) and there have been some absolute bangers this expansion (Mid-Boss Dawntrail being my favourite generic boss theme in the series and Vanguard's theme was absolute fire with the techno beats. Haven't enjoyed a dungeon theme so much since The Twinning).

However the bosses and dungeons themselves have been a let down because its more of the same. You have no idea how excited I was when I unlocked Alexandria (being a MASSIVE FFIX fan) but it was just more of the same generic DDR-based slop I've seen over and over again. Even the raid bosses have been boring and to be honest, a little cringy (Honey B Love as an example). It is a real shame. I agree that there should be a place for trash but since all tanks do is wall to wall pulling, it just makes the whole exercise pointless because the trash is never a threat.

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So much agree. I find normal raids more of a challenge than I'd like anyway on cycle, but I abandoned the current series because everything about it aesthetically just grated. I understand that "fantasy" is not limited to dragons and underground caves with dripping, mossy walls, but this complete capitulation to teenage anime is just too much for me.

I have to be honest though, in my opinion Dawntrail has had the weakest dungeon and raid roster of any expansion so far. It may just be the increase in difficulty that puts me off them but a lot of them feel like an ADHD fever dream. Reaction times to mechanics have been severely reduced I feel this expansion which is a shame if you have mediocre muscle memory or can only focus on one thing at a time. I do not mind wiping to a boss on occasion and I've now finished all the Dawntrail dungeons on normal. I can honestly say that none of them have been particularly fun, with the exception of the last boss of Yuweyawata Field Station because that boss didn't feel cheap and was challenging in a fun way as it required interesting coordination and direction management.

I mean, we had Sigmascape, Crystal Tower etc (which people might think is pandering to nostalgia a lot) but it was an amazing experience. Battling Kefka (To a MASTERFUL modernisation of Dancing Mad) really doesn't compare to an anime girl dressed up like a bee, does it? One is clearly on another level to another.

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Originally Posted by TheInsomniac13

The emphasis most players seem to have is Stormblood peaked in design while others say it was good but they prefear Heavensward or even ARR. It was rather clear in these posts that the majorety who got to expirience the design of past content are not satesfied with current design choices at all.

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Because we're not really wanted anymore and aren't part of the new SB/ShB+ core audience. It's adapt or die at this point.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Because we're not really wanted anymore and aren't part of the new SB/ShB+ core audience. It's adapt or die at this point.

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I think this is right. It seems SE has determined that the raiding community is sufficiently satisfied with current design choices that they just keep slotting new graphics into the same template. MSQ dungeons are just the kiddie version.

At first sight this may appear to be a mistake given the financial importance of NA and the fact raiding is a minority activity. But a few years ago when I paid more attention to these things, the conventional wisdom was NA (and EU?) in all MMOs basically maintains "acceptable" numbers through new player churn.

I like to watch often content about Games (MMOs too) who have failed and why. And a Problem that keeps poping up again and again is a Product designed to appeal to everyone, ends up appealing to no one. And this is what I have to always think when some one sayes Black Mage is now so much more accesible to unskilled players. Firstly you should never lower the standards to make it more accesible for people who cannot be bothered to put in any effort, secondly we now have the job that is piss easy to play and gives out big damage numbers playable by even by a cat... so the tourists will have there way with it and once something new with bigger numbers will pop up now one will stick to it and then the Devs will wonder where are all the mains?

In the end Gameplay and Jobidentity is sacreficed for encounter designe which gives you the feeling the Devs want us all to see Savage and Ultimate content the be all and end all of Gameplay, I for one couldn´t care less for this typ of content.
And with the lackluster reception of Dawntrails story not even that keeps people in the game anymore. I can certainly say once my playtime runs out I will not renew it and the only lament I have that I never got to see this game in it´s glory days when Jobs were not this!

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Originally Posted by TheInsomniac13

I like to watch often content about Games (MMOs too) who have failed and why. And a Problem that keeps poping up again and again is a Product designed to appeal to everyone, ends up appealing to no one. And this is what I have to always think when some one sayes Black Mage is now so much more accesible to unskilled players. Firstly you should never lower the standards to make it more accesible for people who cannot be bothered to put in any effort, secondly we now have the job that is piss easy to play and gives out big damage numbers playable by even by a cat... so the tourists will have there way with it and once something new with bigger numbers will pop up now one will stick to it and then the Devs will wonder where are all the mains?

In the end Gameplay and Jobidentity is sacreficed for encounter designe which gives you the feeling the Devs want us all to see Savage and Ultimate content the be all and end all of Gameplay, I for one couldn´t care less for this typ of content.
And with the lackluster reception of Dawntrails story not even that keeps people in the game anymore. I can certainly say once my playtime runs out I will not renew it and the only lament I have that I never got to see this game in it´s glory days when Jobs were not this!

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Correct, because if everybody engaged with that sort of content (never going to happen), it would make the devs task so much easier. It greatly reduces content droughts if everyone wants the same thing from a game. Unfortunately, SE has this completely backwards by emphasizing EX+, which is never going to appeal to the bulk of the NA/EU player base unless 75% of them leave.

Yeah, I feel sorry for Black Mages who have spent 10+ years honing their skill with that job. Personally it never appealed to me because of the Astral Fire and Umbral Ice switch mechanic. I could never get the hang of it but that's "Ok", not every class appeals to everyone. What annoys me is how much people slag off my main class (White Mage) for being "basic". I like the class BECAUSE it has few gimmicks and is straightforward, not every class should require you to do a MENSA puzzle in order to play the game effectively. (I also liked Yuna, Garnet and Aerith in the classic FF so the class appealed to me anyway). If Black Mages want their class to be challenging and the way it was, then that's fine... I don't want to play Dark Souls because my reaction time is bad but I won't demand From Software lower the game's mechanics and difficulty to appeal to me.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

Yeah, I feel sorry for Black Mages who have spent 10+ years honing their skill with that job. Personally it never appealed to me because of the Astral Fire and Umbral Ice switch mechanic. I could never get the hang of it but that's "Ok", not every class appeals to everyone. What annoys me is how much people slag off my main class (White Mage) for being "basic". I like the class BECAUSE it has few gimmicks and is straightforward, not every class should require you to do a MENSA puzzle in order to play the game effectively. (I also liked Yuna, Garnet and Aerith in the classic FF so the class appealed to me anyway). If Black Mages want their class to be challenging and the way it was, then that's fine... I don't want to play Dark Souls because my reaction time is bad but I won't demand From Software lower the game's mechanics and difficulty to appeal to me.

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Honestly a lot of the complaints against WHM more come from the perspective of the fact that it actively makes the other healers job harder because WHM is so antithetical to 14’s healer design that WHM makes the shield healers job harder

I have no problem with WHM in a vacuum in terms of it existing for other players (I still don’t like it at all and think it has a history of negatively affecting the other healers) but it really can negatively affect the other healer

(Sorry I know this isn’t really on topic)