Black Mage megathread

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Originally Posted by Ferrinus

There is a simple fix to the existing AoE rotation: make it so that Flare and Freeze can only be cast at AF3/UI3, rather than at any level of either buff. That way we'd have to use HF2/HB2 to transition between aspects even though they have mediocre potency. It's not the most satisfying fix, but the fewer spells are useless or optimally skipped, the better.

Likewise, something needs to be done about the uselessness of Blizzard 1 at level 58+ and the uselessness of Fire 1 between levels 60 and 89. I have two ideas:

* F1 and B1 just upgrade directly into F4 and B4. To cast Paradox at level 90+, you press the other button, ie while in AF3 your B4 button turns into Paradox, and while in UI3 your F4 button turns into Paradox.

* As soon as you learn B4 and F4, B1 and F1 become both instant and free to cast, thereby becoming emergency movement tools. This would replace Scathe and might also entail either zeroing astral Paradox's MP cost or, as above, making only the opposite spell button turn into Paradox when you're able to cast it.

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Adding that additional requirement would force HF2/BF2 into mandated use, although I think HB2 is already necessary in AoE rotation because Freeze doesn't grant Umbral Ice like how Flare grants Astral Fire, and Paradox no longer grants either of those (I think the rotation was something like Transpose (to ice) → Paradox (to UI3) → Freeze; I just used HB2 during that time because I didn't feel like it doing it the optimal way and I still don't). If devs wanted to force their use, it's even simpler to just have Flare no longer apply Astral Fire than to add an additional, new kind of requirement to cast spells. With no other option to get AF3, players would be forced to use garbage 70-potency AoEs to switch phases (100 potency - 30% off-element penalty).

I'd rather the AoEs designed so players actually desire to use them than just removing all alternatives to force them into it, though. The potencies are just abysmal.

Blizzard only very technically and never practically had potential use before 7.2 as some kind of extreme emergency timer refresh in UI. Fire, before 7.2, was useful in those intermediate levels as the timer refresher for fire and was always in rotation prior to learning Paradox in EW (technically even after because it held the same slot and purpose, with Paradox just being an upgrade). The main purpose of Paradox is gone with 7.2 as well, though, since it has the same potency as F4 in fire phase and only serves as an instant that gives out an F3P (has good damage in ice, though, I guess). Hard-casting an F4 instead of a Paradox just means you don't get F3P. Only after 7.2 is F1 now a useless bloat between F4 and Paradox.

I'm not entirely keen on having alternating Paradox buttons. I'd much prefer the slot(s) for Paradox to remain consistent between elemental phases. It's not a terrible idea to have F1/B1 upgrade into F4/B4 now that timers are dead, but it should probably only upgrade when AF/UI are active so they can still be cast when no element is active (for whatever weird reason people might want to do that), or tie into that "only in AF3/UI3" requirement suggested for Flare/Freeze to determine when they swap in. Paradox could just be a separate slot entirely that only turns on with the Paradox buff.

So much purpose in black mage's kit died on the release of 7.2. If this is the status quo, I wouldn't bet against this "bandage" fix ending up being a push into a larger rework of the job in 8.0 (the supposed bandage creating more problems than it tries to solve).

You're right, just making Flare no longer max out your Astral Fire stacks would be a simpler solution still. I forgot to register that I also fully support Freeze and Flare having the same listed potency (even if this requires that Freeze start out at 120 but only upgrade to 240 at level 50 or whatever balancing low-level AoE takes) for purely artistic reasons.

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Originally Posted by Ferrinus

Mechanically, there are fights in which you DON'T want to deal splash damage to avoid breaking something's CC or accidentally pushing a bomb onto the wrong platform or whatever. Obviously this restricts us from using Flare Star in such cases, but it shouldn't restrict us from attacking at all.

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Don't forget every Deep Dungeon, especially when soloing. It's fine for some skills/spells to have dual use in a job (usually big finishers), but definitely not all.

I prefer my jobs to have distinctness between their AoE and single-target rotations while still using most of the available resources/abilities. Things like Red Mage Acceleration granting more damage to Impact so it doesn't just sit unused during AoE and Ninja now able to use the upgraded Trick Attack in AoE for AoE Trick burst windows as well as the Mug upgrade hitting multiple targets.

It's also a bummer that MCH is so cluttered in their AoE vs. single-target kit by comparison. Wildfire (one of their 2-minute burst buttons) doesn't splash on detonation, Air Anchor has no AoE equivalent, whatever the hell Flamethrower exists for, Automaton Queen is all single-target damage, and Auto Crossbow doesn't reduce the cooldown of either Double Check or Checkmate (or their downgrades) and both of those abilities are AoE now.

I complain about BLM AoE rotation, but mostly because it's a smidge bland and some spells designed for intended use are actively avoided because they're just not optimal (and suck), making the rotation blander with fewer spells to make the loop longer than just Freeze, Flare and Flare Star. Polyglot has an AoE spender, Flare Star is valid in both AoE and single-target, the job's overall feel is the same in AoE just with a different rotation, and the only resource that isn't utilized in AoE is Paradox. It's thankfully not anywhere near MCH levels of clunky-dunk.

Just gonna copy paste my feedback on the aoe changes I wanted to make.

Return enhanced flare back to high fire 2 and also grants 1 astral soul. Make enhanced flare consumable. Reduce astral soul provided by flare to 2. Rotation hopefully changes to HF2 -> flare -> HF2 ->flare -> flarestar.

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Originally Posted by Aysin

Just gonna copy paste my feedback on the aoe changes I wanted to make.

Return enhanced flare back to high fire 2 and also grants 1 astral soul. Make enhanced flare consumable. Reduce astral soul provided by flare to 2. Rotation hopefully changes to HF2 -> flare -> HF2 ->flare -> flarestar.

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Making Enhanced Flare stackable up to 2 would also work. The only difference is it would be HF2 → HF2 → Flare → Flare → Flare Star instead of alternating. I can't verify right now, but I'm not sure if there's enough MP after using the first Flare for more than one cast after it (since Flare/Despair require a minimum amount of MP to cast).

That works too, I was aiming on both the feel of charging your next flare for bigger impact and avoiding hitting the same button back to back in order to maintain a bit more variance, but I'm not stressed on that detail. As long as we step away from what we currently do now for AOE.

Honest opinion for AOE fixes - rather than bruteforcing it with stuff like "can only cast Flare/Freeze at AF3/UI3", I think they should just go with the more organic approach of returning the potency buffs from Endwalker they reverted with Dawntrail. That and Enhanced Flare synergy on Fire II / High Fire II.

With the right potencies and synergies, you will naturally cast HB2/HF2 again, because on one end you need the extra Umbral Ice stacks for more MP to cast the F2/HF2, on the other end F2/HF2 will be worth using again on a damage level.

This gives me the option to speed through an AOE cycle at a slight loss by using the cycle we do now (Flare Flare Flarestar Transpose Freeze XYZ Transpose) unless its literally all I can manage to cast in that short time, or I get to do the full string using Fire II and Blizzard II variants.

I liked the EW AoE rotation a lot, but I don't really like "enhanced Flare" as a trait because Flare (like Freeze, Burst, etc) is supposed to be a big-name Ancient Magic, right? It feels strange for regular Flare to actually be too weak to use such that you need a different, simpler spell to charge it up first.

I do think it's possible to just massage the cast times raw potencies on HB2, HF2, Freeze, and Flare such that an astral cycle that goes (HF2 to swap), HF, HF, Flare, Flare, Flare Star actually has more potency per second than one which just goes Flare, Flare, Flare Star, though. Especially if HF2 also builds Astral Soul stacks or something.

Personally I like the AoE rotation of High Blizzard 2, Freeze, High Fire 2, Flare, Flare, Flare Star. It uses enough of the kit. It still has room for the usual Foul and Thunder stuff.

The part that throws me is lower-level, especially when you first get Freeze, at 40. If the reduction in cast time from swapping elements doesn't also impact the recast timer, my understanding is that a cycle of casting Blizzard 2, Freeze, Fire 2, Fire 2, Fire 2, Fire 2 ends up being 664 potency (two 56 from "80 potency" at -30%, 3 144 for "80 potency" at +80%, and one 120 pot Freeze) while just casting Freeze six times is 720 potency. But it's worse, because with the timer changes Freeze six times takes 15 seconds while the "proper" cycle takes 16.5? Am I missing something there?

This is just another post complaining about blm. I don't think I have anything to add that people haven't said already, and I'm unconfident that devs will listen and revert any changes. Just frustrated as to the state of the game.

I have been playing since 2014, started on Thaumaturge, loved black mage up until the recent patch. I loved being able to hone my skills on this job, and the feeling of squeezing in a despair or flare just before that timer ran out was so satisfying to me. It made the job fun and different- it was a level of risk-and-reward that I felt other jobs didn't compare to. For someone who had been playing since nearly the beginning, it was fun getting better and better, improving with a job and game that got more and more difficult as time went on. I was looking forward to planning fights with a lot of movement, and being able to work hard for great damage.

Now after the 7.2 changes (specifically, removing the timer) it feels like it might have just been a waste. I love this game- love the story, love the other jobs, playstyle, hell, I have FFXIV tattoos- but my favorite was learning fights on black mage. If a fight was too hard at first, I could go in as bard or something with better movement, learn the fight, and figure it out later on blm. And it was fun doing so. It was fun being able to play a "difficult" job (which really, is not that difficult) that required some limited knowledge of the fights you did in order to increase your damage (which is intuitive, and I think is great game design and it just.. makes sense). When I heard YoshiP was changing his perspective and wanted to make the game even harder, I was optimistic! I was looking forward to a challenge that I could overcome, a fight that would really be a fight. And then they removed my timer man :(

There's no satisfaction in playing the job anymore. Now it's just kind of irritating waiting for your cast, with no risk of enochian falling off, and polygot casts are guaranteed rather than working a little for them. I didn't like getting rid of sharpcast, but ultimately I didn't feel as though the spirit of the job was ruined, so I learned to love the job again. I never thought this change would come since YoshiP mains the job and trusted the devs to understand what the uniqueness of the class entailed, so this was truly shocking. It feels stupid for a little change to effect my enjoyment so much, but I realized that regardless if I continue my sub or quit, I'll still miss the way it was before, and that I'd feel like I'm playing a very different game. Like I said, I have zero faith that the devs will revert the job, and I'm very sorry for the long post. I could say a lot more, and I could argue, but I think instead maybe it's time to try something else. Just had to at least try to put something out there I think. I'm glad some people still like blm. I'm just not one of them.