Undercutting

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Originally Posted by Archeron

Citations needed.

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A few posts up, there are more details about what I'm talking about. However, if you are a "POIDH" type person, you will be let down. If I was preparing a dissertation for academic purposes, then I'd have recorded all of this in pictures and a document. And besides, even if I did that, many closed-minded people would just draw whatever conclusions that fit their narrative anyway. I recommend you try looking into it yourself. Look beyond just the one sale where you undercut by 50% and something sold quick.

And I'd love to see the "citations provided" for any of the "undercutting by thousands of gil is better" posts. Since the only thing lacking more than those citations are the thought processes that arrived at such conclusions.

If there two of the things i need, for 999 gil and 1000 gil... I always try yo pick the 1000 gil one. I see what the 999 seller is trying. I dont really care either way, but supporting the speed seller just feels like unfairness.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

A few posts up, there are more details about what I'm talking about. However, if you are a "POIDH" type person, you will be let down. If I was preparing a dissertation for academic purposes, then I'd have recorded all of this in pictures and a document. And besides, even if I did that, many closed-minded people would just draw whatever conclusions that fit their narrative anyway. I recommend you try looking into it yourself. Look beyond just the one sale where you undercut by 50% and something sold quick.

And I'd love to see the "citations provided" for any of the "undercutting by thousands of gil is better" posts. Since the only thing lacking more than those citations are the thought processes that arrived at such conclusions.

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I just love your passive aggressive attitude, followed up by no sources. I gave my opinion on how I see peoples spending habits, based upon my experience in the sales I've made over 4 years and being gil capped twice over. But I'm sure I clearly have no experience or knowledge! It must have been luck! But no, I won't be discussing my thought process with you. You're clearly emotionally invested in the markets, and my undercutting will continue at my discretion. Buy my items or plan on selling elsewhere.

It's crazy how some of you get big mad about 1 gil undercutting. I wonder how much is a "fair amount" of undercutting for you guys not to throw a tantrum... 50 gil? Maybe 1000 gil?

When you see 10 items on top of the list, all with the same price, why would you prefer to be 11th instead of 1st? Out of kindness? It won't matter, for every kind person there will be ten more ready to undercut you.

The MB is called "PVP" for a reason, if you want to be the shiny #1 on the list, either fight for it or let it stay there and wait for an eventual buyer. Hell, there will be petty enough people to buy your items instead, like this one here:

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

If there two of the things i need, for 999 gil and 1000 gil... I always try yo pick the 1000 gil one. I see what the 999 seller is trying. I dont really care either way, but supporting the speed seller just feels like unfairness.

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Originally Posted by Rolks

So I had a conversation today with someone in my hunt party, and he brought up undercutting. When he said that you should undercut by only one gil, I told him that if someone does that to me, I drop my price by 1k. And he didn't like that. He said, that if you do that, the price drops, and all sellers lose money, but if you only undercut by 1 gil, then the price remains high for everyone.

No it doesn't. It remains high for you! Not for me, mine doesn't sell. If you like my price, then match it, don't undercut it. If you undercut by 1 gil, you're saying, "Hey, I like you're price, so I'm going to steal your sale." And I get screwed cause mine doesn't sell.

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Yes, it will. If you're in a highly competitive market like say, the crafted battle gear when it's current. It will sell regardless if you undercut by 1 or 1,000. All that matters is your own availability to engage in an undercut war. For slower moving items, it's generally the same premise, but people may have a higher benchmark they aren't willing to go under. You usually see this for things like Unreal mounts or other highly expensive items.

The point is, that person is correct and he isn't stealing your sale. Think about it. By your own admission, you wouldn't be upset with a 1k undercut yet that person undercutting you is trying to sell their item ahead of yours. It's quite literally the same premise, except you added some zeros. Which does lower the market because if other people also join the undercut war, the item will just stay at a lower amount.

Undercutting by 1 gil isn't some great insult. It's basic efficiency. Everyone wants their item to be listed first because it sells faster. Dropping the price by more doesn't increase the speed it'll sell unless the item was overpriced to begin with.

It amazes me sometimes the lengths people go to find something to be angry about.

I just like having my price look even before the taxes get put on it, so I won't undercut by just one.

Lol. I just go to universailis and find the lowest selling price in the entire America server, then sell lower than that and call it the day

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Originally Posted by dspguy

So by undercutting by 1000 gil, you drop the market for everyone for absolutely no benefit to anyone.

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The seller sells faster
The buyer gets it cheaper

2 people that benefit.

And by selling faster, you can often enough also sell more.
10 sales of 10k (with 1k investment) vs 4 sales of 20k still makes 90k for the 10 sales, and 80k for the 4 sales.

The only thing that could be worse is the time investment if you need to spend more time crafting/gathering. But with retainer brought stuff... who cares?

I think you completely missed my argument. In my last paragraph, I specifically said, I'm not against undercutting. I said, "But don't make it some moral argument saying there is a proper way to do it. There is no way in which undercutting (by 1 gil) benefits everyone. It only benefits you. So don't get upset if you set off a price war by undercutting (by 1 gil)."

Again, undercutting only benefits the person who undercuts. So if you undercut by one gil ... that helps YOU. That keeps the price high for only you. It does nothing for me. You are the one that got the sale.

So my goal now is to be the lowest price. If we all just drop by 1 gil, then I just have to hope to be the lucky one at the top when the buyer shows up. "Keeping the price high" is pointless if I'm not the one getting the sale. I don't care how much you make if you sell. It's not my goal to ensure you make money. I only care if I make money, and I can only do that if it is my item that sells.

So if I can get you to stop undercutting me, it guarantees that I'm at the top when the buyer shows up. So by undercutting me, you've already instituted a price war, or as Archeron pointed out, "Marketboard PvP". This now has absolutely nothing to do with the buyer and everything to do with other sellers. I now want to make it as painful as possible for you to try and undercut me so that you stop doing it. If I stay dropping the price by 1 gil, it gives you no incentive to stop undercutting me. But if I finally drop the price so low that you don't like the price point, but I'm still fine with it, now I get the sale. And if it drops too low for my liking, I pull my item, and now you're screwed with the low price and lost profit. Either way, I don't care. It's not my responsibility to make sure you get a high price. My goal is to sell my items at prices I want.

If you actually wanted to "keep the price high" then don't undercut in the first place. You can't have it both ways, either you keep the price high by matching my price, or you undercut and start a price war that drops the price.

In sum, I wasn't the one upset. I find the 1 gil undercut annoying because it's not really an undercut, it's just stealing a sale. He was the one upset that I'd drop it by 1k. But that is the point of my dropping by 1k. I want him to be upset. Because I want him to stop competing with me for the sale. I want him to give up.

(and as a side note, most of the stuff I sell IS ridiculously overpriced. I would never pay the prices for the things I sell. It's why I craft, so I don't have to. But other people are willing to pay those prices, so I take advantage of that. But because I think my stuff is ridiculously overpriced is also why I'm willing to undercut by so much each time. The actual price I'm willing to go down to is far lower than what I initially listed it at. So I see no reason to "keep the price high". As long as *I* am the one getting the sale at a price at or above what I'm willing to sell for, that is all I care about.)