Viper's weapon concept is wasted

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

Wish we got a Hammer class that was a melee dps that was slower on the gcd side of things, with little ogcds but long cast times and high potency. Kind of like pictomancer. then you get ogcds that proc when you slam into the ground to do further damage. It's not that unique but melee with legit cast times and high potency sounds kind of cool for some of us who are tired of fast job with a million ogcds that we can't seem to stop getting

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It's kinda what I thought Reaper would be, given they're swinging an oversized Scythe.

I'd give a lot for a 3,5s-4,0s GCD melee class, ideally with a 1,5s-2,0s mobile-cast portion of each attack. Slow to move, slow to attack, huge damage numbers with every hit.

Alternatively, to fully capitalize on melee casting, a Battlemage, though I'd prefer that as a Tank tbh.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

Alternatively, to fully capitalize on melee casting, a Battlemage, though I'd prefer that as a Tank tbh.

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A mage tank would be awesome!

Green Mage

Green Mage

The idea of switching weapon it should have a purpose,

games like MHW there is a weapon called "switch axe" this weapon is an axe that transform into greatsword.

Axe is to break the boss armor or what we call it also CC and the sword is to dish the most damage while having lower movement.

can this type of class exist in FFXIV? don't think so, the game is only about damage nothing else, and there is nothing to manage behind that for simplicity.

I find the whole concept of Viper, from weapon to identity, to be pretty half-baked. There was so much wasted potential there. The concept of a transforming weapons seems so cool in theory but mechanically SE did nothing with it. It could not happen and nothing would be different.

The job also has no identity to speak of. Lore-wise they are meant to be hunters of dangerous monsters, but nothing about their job kit suggests that at all. It's just generic sword slashes followed by a less cool Reaper-style transformation phase, then back to generic sword strikes. There are so many examples of cool fictional hunters they could have pulled from. Could have gone with something like classic fantasy hunter, using traps, hand-made tools, and poisons, along with their transforming swords. Could have gone the "Witcher" or "Bloodborne" monster hunter route using bombs, weapon oils, and enhancing items. Or even the DND dual wield Ranger by tossing is some light nature magic, stealth skills, and animal affinity flavour.

They did none of this. The fact that Viper is a hunter of any kind feels like an afterthought, much like their transforming weapons.

Compare this to the previous DPS job, Reaper. A job that is dripping in identity, and has backstory and lore which is deeply engrained in the history of one of the prominent nations of the world. The weapon they use is a direct result of the tools available to the people who founded the job, giving a lore reason for the weapons to exist. The abilities in the Reaper kit are fundamentally linked to the idea that the job has a pact with a voidsent. There's even a whole dungeon dedicated to an old Reaper training ground.

Viper feels like a wasted DPS spot imo. Doubly so for folks who like scouting classes because we aren't getting another one now for many years, if at all.

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

The idea of switching weapon it should have a purpose,

games like MHW there is a weapon called "switch axe" this weapon is an axe that transform into greatsword.

Axe is to break the boss armor or what we call it also CC and the sword is to dish the most damage while having lower movement.

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And yeah we all expected it'd just be the lame weapon switch, every 120s you go 2H for the burst phase. Yoshi P then said no worries, we're not going to do that. Turns out, they're not even doing that, it's just a minor visual detail of the rotational play.

I feel just widening the gap in GCD timer between the two modes would at least make it interesting though (and removing the haste buff, instead increase potencies, to further augment the difference) because then the slow 2H mode would actually feel slow to play. Bonus points if its something like 2s vs 4s, so it still "aligns" cleanly.

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Originally Posted by jonimated

I find the whole concept of Viper, from weapon to identity, to be pretty half-baked. There was so much wasted potential there. The concept of a transforming weapons seems so cool in theory but mechanically SE did nothing with it. It could not happen and nothing would be different.

The job also has no identity to speak of. Lore-wise they are meant to be hunters of dangerous monsters, but nothing about their job kit suggests that at all. It's just generic sword slashes followed by a less cool Reaper-style transformation phase, then back to generic sword strikes. There are so many examples of cool fictional hunters they could have pulled from. Could have gone with something like classic fantasy hunter, using traps, hand-made tools, and poisons, along with their transforming swords. Could have gone the "Witcher" or "Bloodborne" monster hunter route using bombs, weapon oils, and enhancing items. Or even the DND dual wield Ranger by tossing is some light nature magic, stealth skills, and animal affinity flavour.

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Plus, they could not even get themselves to use the word Viper and at least make it a job about a dozen or so debuffs you need to juggle and having DoTs based on other DoTs and stuff. Like, if you had a combo-sequence for DoTs, that'd at least be unique (that is, your 1-2-3 combo is a 1-1-1 combo, but it applies a different debuff depending on which are already on the enemy). Boring gameplay wise, but at least somewhat unique in design.

Instead they did... absolutely bloody nothing with it. The only thing Viper is good for is showcasing how well autocombos work for boring 1-2-3 combos and how much it helps reduce RSI a bit if at least you don't have to needlessly shift your fingers laterally, too. Which as someone who is no longer young at all, I appreciate.

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Originally Posted by jonimated

Could have gone with something like classic fantasy hunter, using traps, hand-made tools, and poisons, along with their transforming swords.

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So, first, i mostly disagree with you people, i'm pretty happy about viper's gameplay identity because, as an old ninja main, i was sad to see the ninja becoming some kind of melee mage, i liked him because he was a fast paced dexterity "sword" fighter, so i'm really happy that they brought back this type of job that is the one i prefer.

And at first, when i read your message, i was like "wow, what a boring idea, setting traps during a fight ? I've seen that in a lot of game and that is usually boring and actually doesn't make any sense, nobody has time to set a trap during an actual fight".

But ACTUALLY, this would be a very good idea to give the viper a trap that would only be good during downtime. Because one of the biggest weakness of the viper is how he absolutely despises downtime. This would actually be cool and make him stronger. But that should absolutely not be done during uptime, that would be awful.

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Originally Posted by Karuya

So, first, i mostly disagree with you people, i'm pretty happy about viper's gameplay identity because, as an old ninja main, i was sad to see the ninja becoming some kind of melee mage, i liked him because he was a fast paced dexterity "sword" fighter, so i'm really happy that they brought back this type of job that is the one i prefer.

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A fast-paced sword fighter isn't a bad idea in a vacuum, but it is simply too bland of an idea for the world of FFXIV. Viper doesn't justify it's own existence among the other jobs, both thematically and mechanically.

It's kit is stolen wholesale from other dps jobs. Gameplay-wise it doesn't really do anything unique. Lore-wise it's a monster hunter? Cool, lean into that. As it stands Viper doesn't offer anything unique to the world and story of FFXIV that other jobs couldn't also do. And in many cases do better.

I'm glad you enjoy as is, really. I just think it could have been so much more than "fast swords". To me it just feels like an idea that needed an extra expansions worth of dev time to get right. Viper feels like it basically exists because they needed to fill the scouting slot, and doesn't justify it's existence beyond that.

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Originally Posted by jonimated

A fast-paced sword fighter isn't a bad idea in a vacuum, but it is simply too bland of an idea for the world of FFXIV.

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Although I think even then, if it were a tank, and FFXIV's first avoidance tank at that, that could have been interesting and workable.